Aside from occasional geniuses like chuck jones most american animated series are juvenile rubbish, watching shows like shamploo only serves to confirm this, it seems like most westeners cannot look past animation as anything more than a kids medium.
shareOoooh, you're so wise. Do you have any other assumptions you'd like to make, or perhaps some more asinine slander you'd like to sling. For starters, I'm sure you meant to speak specifically about America and not the west in general, as the two are not interchangeable. I'm sure you know this being a Brit but I guess it bears repeating. Now I know that it's just oh so popular to critique America for a variety of reasons these days, but if you're going to do it, maybe you should provide evidence. I'm sure that will be difficult for a pathetic, manga-obsessed, I-wear-black-because-that's-how-I-feel-on-the-inside retard such as yourself, but you should still try. Not everything can be as amazing as anime, but, jeez, give us a few years and I'm sure we'll catch up. I mean, I know we only have a history of artists like Carl Barks, Will Eisner, Max Fleischer, Friz Freleng, Will Hanna, Joe Barbera, Tex Avery, Winsor McCay, Walt Disney, and more recently artists such as Matt Groening, Aaron McGruder and countless others, but, I'm sure you're right and that American animation is "juvenile rubbish." Dumbass.
shareserved
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hail satan
eh he has a pretty good point... there is tons of good anime. We make nothing really comparable to it. People here are mostly still stuck in the mindset that most fully animated entertainment should be made solely for comedy or for children. It just seems like we're so afraid to take any risks. It's pretty sad.
shareNo, he doesn't have a very good point, because his point was not that anime is good, his point was that American animation sucks. You're right, there is a lot of great animation coming out of Japan, but the dumbass who started this post wasn't interesting in starting an intelligent conversation about the pros and cons of different foreign animation. All he wanted to do was bitch like a little girl from the privacy of the internet about American animation, and that is why I treated him like the ignorant flamer he is. Again, I agree that many people in America don't give enough credence or respect to cartoons or cartoonists, but you can easily make that point without creating a retarded post like "75% of all ameican animation awful." Perhaps "75% of all IMDB Flamers have improper spelling and grammar" would have been a better title to his moronic post.
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Its not the anime, its the stories. Get with it. Pixar *beep* about some little kiddy character no one gives a rats a.ss about, meanwhile, Samurai Champloo is something we want to see. Ronins. It stems from Ninja Scroll and late 90s anime like Cow Boy Bee Bop (and yes i know same creators).
They need to start inventing different perspectives about anything really.
Idiots who get upset about spelling and grammar should jump off a cliff and do us a favor. Quit whining you little bitches and shove that dictionary up your a.ss
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yikes ! looks like I just wandered into the dork fest of the ages ! Well I guess I'll throw my two cents in and move along... the best thing pixar ever did was toy story way back in 95'. Everything else scenes then is nothing new, or spectacular , just the same old animation style in almost ever movie. Even though I hate Disney with almost ever fiber of my being I will not to neglect the fact that they still have some of the most beautiful animation to date. But then again there is also a great deal of horrible artwork in anime also there you go.
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Its not that we are not into animation, its that we havent had the ability to create anything as good as japanese animation yet. not to say that it will not happen sooner or later. expesialy with this new generation of children out there. Im shure that someone will try to cash-in on this fairly new crave. theres a gold mine out there someone is bound to find it
"Re: 75% of all ameican animation awful." thats a relitive statement anyways."
"There's no place for me on earth
because hell doesn't exist"
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Guess I should have done my homework on this one. but something still bothers me...
The crave is not new nor has it particularly risen that much (although it has a little) recently.I'm positive that there are good american writers, If there has been so many years of exposure to japanese animation and the ratings for theise shows are moastly exelent, then why is it taking so long for a good american anime series to come out.
Why is it that you are waiting for "American Anime?" Although anime is a great cartoon style, it is not the only one available. Because of the depth and talent of the work coming out of the east in the last 40 years we are seeing a lot more anime influence in some American pieces, e.g. Aaron McGruder's "The Boondocks," which has subtle anime tones, however artists such as Hertzfeldt have proven that even the most basic animation can be effective as well as entertaining.
To question whether Japanese animators are better than American animators isn't fair, mainly because it's subjective. If we are to rank their talent solely on fanbase, then we run into the problem that both countries' animation are globally and demographically unevenly distributed. I will agree that the American animation industry is second to the Japanese animation industry, but not because they are better artists. The problem doesn't lie with the talent available, nor with the consumer market, but instead with the production companies who have decided for us that "American's don't like cartoons." With artists like Hertzfeldt out there, it's hard to claim that our animation is awful, but I thoroughly agree it is not respected enough by the people who make the decisions. However, thanks to late 90's/early 2000 Comic/Graphic Novel movie rush, which has managed to help revive a dwindling industry (even if most of the movies were terrible), as well as Adult Swim and accompanying production companies, respect for comics and animation is on the rise in America and hopefully this trend will continue. The fact that Adult Swim dominates the 18-35 male demographic at night, which is the most coveted demographic, proves there is a demand for adult animation in the U.S., and that will hopefully increase supply.
It's not so much that i'm waiting for American anime Its just that it surprises me that a decent one hasnt come out yet.
I'm also not saying that american animators are worse. just that thay dount seem to get the message that cartoons are not only for kids or comedy
"There's no place for me on earth
because hell doesn't exist"
It has nothing to do with American talent for animation. I am pretty sure if American animators had an audience for adult themed animation they would be able to hand with Japanese animators or any other. But lets face it, in the US animation has the stereotype that its either for children or comedy. Americans are just not into cartoons.
Well that might fit pretty well for something like Disney, it's pretty much a safety label for soccer moms, if Disney did something like Mononoke-hime there would be a huge outcry.
And while Disney probably have the skill to do something like Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi, I doubt they would really have the guts to do it, would probably be like this "Oh, this part, isn't it a little to scary?" "This part is a bit to sad" and so on, it would just end up being watered down.
And this is the same for most of the American movie industry, they rather go for "ok" than risk failing to do great.
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The only reason Japan does is because it has the right audience. Sure, there are plenty of anime fans everywhere else, but with all of the purists and such, if a show like there were to be made here, then people would be complaining about animation or the writing, even if it were to take the same approach. A decent example would be Avatar the Last Airbender. Most people don't want to consider that this show could possibly be good because
A) It's aimed at kids
B) It's from America
C) It's not, technically speaking, anime
The show has deep undertones and a pretty intricate plot as well. Do you honest think if this had aired on adult swim or w/e as a show for adults it would have been as successful. We you come right down to it, everyone will have something to complain about.
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Since when has Samurai Champloo been "western"?
The only thing "westerners" have control over is the Dubbing and edits.
America didn't create Samurai Champloo. Either you were saying they did or you worded your sentence wrong.
I personally love cartoons, I am horrified by American cartoons today.
Most of the things I do like are considered "American Anime" ie. Teen Titans and Avatar: The Last Airbender. I don't think it is so much the animation that sucks, but the writers. I don't watch many cartoons that don't have an actual continuing plot, like Family Guy or The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy. I don't blame the animators, I blame the writers.
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"Only the gentle are ever really strong." - James Dean
America has some of the best animation around: Batman: The Animated Series, Spawn: The Animated Series, The Maxx, Samurai Jack, A Nightmare Before Christmas, The Lion King, and Star Wars: Clone Wars. I will admit there is a lot of crap like the Shrek films, but no category is without flaw.You say 75% of all ameican animation awful, well I say 50% of all anime is crap - probably more. For every Hellsing OVA and Ninja Scroll movie there is tons of kiddie crud and disgusting hentai.
Don’t’ blame someone else for setting the trap that you were stupid enough to walk into.
Ahhhh. The Maxx. That takes me back. Speaking of which, there was a strong hope for American animation in the 90's due in part to the showcasing on MTV's Liquid Televison and Cartoon Sushi. MTV is a horrificly talentless joke now, but back then it was something. Our art in general seems to be getting lazier, but that's another story. The Korean/American Peter Chung gave us brilliant shows like Aeon Flux and Reign, with unique and amazing designs and writing. The Maxx, the Head, Mike Dougherty's pieces. Those were pretty exceptional, but like many have said now, it's not up to snuff anymore. There are a few gems, like the afformentioned clone wars,etc. In fact there is some great animation going on, but it's not in the forefront. Give it time to come around, there could be a renaissance soon. The big artists and writers could get hungry and decide to not settle for passable and do something with guts. But I don't expect that to happen in the near future. Until then, just find what's great whether it's American, Japanese, Korean, British, Canadian, whatever, and enjoy that. I mean, the same country that produced Serial Experiments: Lain and Neon Genesis aslo gave us crap like Ranma and the forever-dull Dragonball.
would´nt it be great if there was an anime renaissance in america. the T.V would explode with anime(hopefully good ones. There might even put an anime channel or two (other than funimation channel ) hopefully the old anime wont be forgoten tho.
"There's no place for me on earth
because hell doesn't exist"
not all american animation is garbage.
i see your point, because a lot maybe 99 percent of stuff made after 1990 was pure crap.
but honestly, a huge amount of american animation has broke ground for what the world has today.
like, garfield and felix the cat [both of those felix shows]. the felix that was black and white honestly broke ground for movies like steam boy and aeon flux.
but look at the x-men and spiderman cartoons of the mid ninteys. honestly ten times better then any japanese shows like full metal alchamist or ghost in the shell.
to be honest, in my opinion with what they had, that show ''the tick'' was the greatest animation show ever produced.
this show, shows how well tempo moves a program along and although it is good, it can't compare to the tick or that kick ass spiderman show or even old school thunder cats or voltron.
look, in the movie ''cinderella'' it took more artists then any animation project ever created in any century. disney straight broke records.
just because this is the most entertaining show ever doesn't make it or any other countries animations better.
because disney spent soooooooooooo[times infinite] much effort on that film makes american animation the best for all time.
no other country has ever even tried that hard.
heck this show was so fkn awesome it didn't need so much effort but if they did hire like 700 artists, this show would have been god-like.
all i have to say is, you are very judgementally retarded.
I agree with most of the title. As a lot of what's animated from America these days are less statifying. Very few appealing cartoons.
While all the appealing cartoons seems to only exsist from Japan.
The problem with lots of American animation is that they don't want to take the time to do quality, and they don't want to spend the money either.
They want to rush something out the door to make a profit now.
The difference is, it is so easy to create a cheap-ass money-making animation in America, so you have a glut.
that's the problem with America these days, they don't like to take risks and put a little more money and extra quality into their products
"There's no place for me on earth
because hell doesn't exist"
LOL. It's always fun to see people bashing others to avoid or stop a discussion.
Already in the second post on this thread you see sentences like "asinine slander", "pathetic, manga-obsessed, I-wear-black-because-that's-how-I-feel-on-the-inside retard". It's also funny how this second poster uses names like Carl Barks and Will Eisner who never made any animation-movies as examples of the non-existent American adult-animation genre.
If you count the good animation from America the last years i'm sure 25% isn't such a bad bet, considering how many "cheap" pixar-like movies comes out each year .
Pixar-like movies can't really be called real animation either, and doesn't have the same artistic flair as the realstic-looking and cool characters from Samurai champloo, Animatrix or Cowboy bebop.
My opinion is that until the 3d-animators get better computer-programs to simulate realistic movements and characters and stops basing movies on cute animals they will never get as good as the best japanese anime.
Just because there has been renewed interest in comics and animation lately doesn't mean it's a trend thats going to last. In the 80's and early nineties there was a global interest in stuff like "Heavy Metal" and Richard Corbens work... now no one cares anymore.
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the post before yours was on October 6 of last year o.O
thread necromancy!
Look I like american animated shows too just not as much. Anime is better coz they really make you care about the characters and you respect their artistic ways.
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Agree with the above poster. The problem is just that Americans and Japanese use different mediums to tell stories.
In most american minds, live-action should be used for serious storylines. Cartoons are often reserved for kids. Even the good stuff (I happen to enjoy Pixar movies) are aimed for young audiences.
People ask "so why don't we make more serious storylines in animation." The answer is, simply, that it doesn't sell. Anime is not mainstream in the United States, right now it's more like a niche. A single Pixar movie sells more than all the Inuyasha movies combined.
Cartoons that are successful and serious, such as the Maxx and the superhero cartoons of the 90s, people seem to want to see in live-action, and when it does become live-action the franchise becomes more successful.
There's also the issue that whenever we do produce something like anime, anime fans seem quick to declare it as a "knock-off" This applies mainly to Avatar: the last Airbender, an anime inspired show with more mature themes than the usual cartoon. It has been quite successful with children and adults alike, but hardcore anime fans seem to hate it.
The Japanese did not have the money to compete with big-budget Hollywood, so they used animation because it was cheaper. At first they copied the Disney style (early anime closely resembles early Disney art), but then grew to their own style.
There's a similar situation when it comes to comics. Many ask why American comics cannot break out of the superhero genre and become more mainstream, and the answer is because in Japan everyone reads manga, even adults. In the US, however, Fiction novels are a bigger medium for telling stories than comics.
It doesn't matter if anime was economically motivated. Anime today IS without doubt more creative and varied\adult oriented than american animasion. They really are.
shareBut what you don't realize is that Samurai Champloo is a gem for Japanese animation. A lot of Japanese cartoons are, in my opinion, static and have painfully unoriginal designs.
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Nathaniel: Sire, do you...like yourself?
Edward: What's not to like?
The thread is ALIVE!
I think animation is just the way the Japanese decided to go about bringing to life the wonderful manga (comics) they produce in that country. Sometimes, a guy like Shinichiro comes up with something that he can put directly to animation, skipping the comic production. Well, music wouldn't be conveyed in a manga, anyway. Animation is pretty darn expensive, so they use this medium despite that fact that live-action is way cheaper.
I think that Japanese animation is so much better quality-wise than American animation because of the quantity of it from over there. There are literally butt-loads of it coming in off the boats every month, every year! It's crazyness, and a lot of it never even reaches North American shores. With all that animation to choose from, you're bound to find some really amazingly well-done shows with incredible story-lines and characters.
In such a small pool of animated shows to choose from in N. America, you're going to find significantly less good, worthy samples.
Besides, if animation is so important for story-telling in a culture, there's bound to be quite a few really great ones compared to the ones produced by another culture that does not value animation as highly...
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Yes, I agree. Most anime is *beep* However. ALL American animation is *beep* Thats the difference.
And what do you mean when you say animation is expensive? It's not. Hollywood-quality real life movies are much more expensive than quality-anime. Steamboy only cost around 20 million (dollars), while the average hollywood movie cost a little over 100 million (dollars). It might be that new technologies and 3d-effects costs a little more than before, but traditionally animation have been one of the most cost-efficient filmatic styles.
Everyone seems to be missing the point.
Americans are not Japanese.
Therefore, American Animation is going to differ.
I personally think the majority of japanese anime on the market today is crap(ex. Bleach, Ghost in Shell, Etc)
Americans like to laugh, and whoever said animation is cheaper than live-action needs to go check an actors paycheck, then compare it with a voice actors paycheck.
Shin-Chan is just as random and retarded as Family guy, and I love it, for that reason.
Majority of Americans don't watch cartoons to be amazed with fantastic story lines and amazing visual art. They watch it to get a laugh. I agree that most cartoons now are garbage, and that old shows are much better/funnier, but I still like some of the new stuff.(Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy is hilarious)
This is a pointless argument, though.
People have different tastes/styles, so comparing two extremely different styles of animation is a waste of time.
Oh, and I hate Family Guy.
Holy Guacamole! We have chips!
Don't flame me. :D
What the f. There's lots of great animated weirdness. The Maxx? Aeon Flux? Most of you here don't seem to know your way around animation other than what's been churned out by disney or pixar lately. Not even counting the disney classics there's lots of great animation out there that isn't anime. I think this is a symptom of the anime/japan fetish wave that's been going on for the last decade.
Anime is known for being cheap and easy and reusing everything. That's the style. Cheap cartoons. Art for people who can't draw. The story and the occasional gem is what makes it great.
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You all do realize the longest running prime time TV sitcom in the US is a cartoon right? We also must realize that the majority of Japanese animation that gets imported to the west is the cream of the crop and even those top Japanese shows are plagued with still frames (not to mention reused still frames) choppy animation and sometimes glaringly bad body proportions from scene to scene (I'm looking at you Hellsing and Trigun) A 12 minute Looney Tunes short has more frames of animation in it then multiple episodes of a modern Japanese half hour cartoon. The Japanese invented the cheap mass produced factory mentality of cartoon production. That trend didn't catch on in America until Hanna Barbara came on the scene.
In terms of mature stories well you got me there the Japanese have a much wider range in that department though America has had its share. Many Disney films have some pretty dark themes woven throughout them. And Adult Swim has done wonders for unique artistic animators over the past ten years. Again I just want to remind everyone that the longest running scripted prime time sitcom in the United States is a cartoon.
Good point about what animation from Japan American audiences are actually exposed to. There are a number of great cartoon artists who do not draw for children; but I'm not going to list them because some many others already have.
I think a lot of anime (that's shown in America) are for children. I'm assuming that most Americans, like myself, are gain most of their anime viewing from Adult Swim, which is geared for ages 14 and up. Honestly, even with their intended age range, I found most of the anime they aire childlike, and therefore couldn't watch it.
Even the "childish" American cartoons slip adult humor into their content; and I love that. Definitely wouldn't say that 75% of American animation is awful.
"Even samurai have Teddybears, and even the bears get drunk."
I guess you don't know that Samurai Champloo is not american anime! And all of the fools arguing with you did not seem to mention it either. This is an Japanese animation and being that you used IMDB to make your complaint you should have used IMBD to look it up before you embarrassed yourself.
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