MovieChat Forums > Ha-Ushpizin (2005) Discussion > How accurate is this film?

How accurate is this film?


For example, my mom says that Orthodox Jews can only speak Hebrew at certain times, and have to speak Yiddish the rest of the time, even though that doesn't happen in the movie.

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I may be wrong, but in the diaspora, before Hebrew was modernized, it was considered too holy to speak as a vernacular, so instead Yiddish was spoken. However, now that there are large Chassidic communities in Israel, where Modern Hebrew is an official language, I am sure that it is permitted to be spoken at any time, in addition to Yiddish.

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[deleted]

a lot of Chasidim speak Yiddish, but these people were just v. orthodox, not necessarily ultra orthodox, i dont think

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I think it is pretty accurate. Your Mum raises an interesting point - when I was growing up and attended a fairly ultra-orthodox school people would say that Hebrew is "the holy language" and it was inappropriate to speak Hebrew in a secular context. The sub-text here was ultra-orthodox reservations about the zionist project, specifically the remarkable re-introduction of Hebrew in the modern State of Israel as a spoken language, through the efforts of people such as Ben Yehuda. The move from Yiddish to Hebrew was seen as part of a wider programme to introduce a secular rather than "religious" identity and to reject the values of the ghetto where Yiddish was the primary language

However in my experience this whole issue simply went away over the past 20-30 years and in practice even the ultra-orthodox in Israel increasingly speak modern Hebrew

I am not sure I know exactly why this is - suspect it is a number of factors from pragmatism (it is difficult to live in a country and not speak the language and their Biblical/rabbinic Hebrew will generally be good enough to have a conversation anyway) to softening of the views on zionism (again I think a complicated issue in its own right).

Also bear in mind the main characters of the film are newly orthodox Israeli Jews - their first language is modern Hebrew, and they won't know Yiddish

FYI, some bits of the film are in Yiddish e.g. the early scene where the people are valuing the etrog (citrus fruit) at 1000 shekels

Anyway, just to re-iterate - this film was accurate as far as it goes, which is a small part of the ultra-orthodox world, specifically the views of newly orthodox Breslav Hasidim - this is not representative of ultra-orthodoxy or orthodox Judaism in its entirety

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onegilliamfan wrote that his/her "mom says that Orthodox Jews can only speak Hebrew at certain times, and have to speak Yiddish the rest of the time, even though that doesn't happen in the movie. "


Hebrew was revived as a modern, spoken, day-to-day language beginning at the end of the 19th century, primarily through the efforts of a linguist and activist named Eliezer ben Yehuda. Prior to that, it was only used as a language of prayer and study by Jews throughout the world, for about 2000 years and was not the language of daily discourse. Most Jews in Central and Eastern Europe spoke Yiddish (Judaeo-German) , Sephardic Jews in the Balkans spoke Ladiono, (Jewish-Spanish) other groups of Jews in the Middle East spoke various dialects of Arabic, or Jewish-Arabic, or Jewish-Persian, etc. Or Jews simply spoke the dominant language of the countries in which they lived, if they were well-integrated, such as German, French, English, etc. When Ben Yehuda started his project to revive Hebrew as a modern, spoken language, he saw the need to have one common language uniting all these diverse Jewish communities, and the natural choice was Hebrew, because all the Jewish communities the world over had some connection to the ancient Hebrew language. However, many Orthodox Jews were opposed to making what for them was the sacred language of study and prayer into a modern language, saying that it debased and profaned the "holy tongue" by using it to talk about such things as shopping or whatever instead of "spiritual matters". (Ignoring the fact that Bible and Mishna is replete with examples of secular discussions). However, almost all Orthodox Jews living in israel today have dropped their objection to spoken, modern Hebrew. Some in their community preserve their insularity by continuing to speak Yiddish, and this is the case in many Hassidic communities in places like New York, Antwerp or London. One group, the Satmar hassidim,(also known for their extreme anti-Israel views) are known for continuing to insist that it is a sin to use the "holy tongue" as a regular, day-to-day language. They call Israeli Hebrew "chilul lashon kodesh"--descration of the holy language". Also, other very Orthodox Jews draw a distinction between the modern, spoken Israeli Hebrew, and the holy tongue of the Bible(Torah) and prayer, saying that they are in fact two completely separate and different languages.

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Thanks for all the enlightening explanations. I'm not Jewish, but I have a long connection to it. I speak just a little Hebrew.

When I've watched Israeli films, the characters playing the Haredim often have an accent that sounds to me like it's tinged with Yiddish.

For instance, "Adonai" was pronounced by at least one or more characters as "Adonoy."

My rabbi calls this the "Ashkenazic" pronounciation implying that the Ashkenazim were primarily Yiddish speakers who make the "ai" or "ay" into "oi." Another example is whether the end of certain words are pronounced with a "t" or an "s." An example would be "tallit" versus "tallis." I didn't catch whether they did the t or s thing in the film.

So is that true that a lot of Haredis speak Hebrew with a Yiddish accent?

One character that I really liked in the film was the man with the money. His Hebrew sounded funny. So did his English. In following the Abraham/Sarah motif, the 2 cons were obviously symbolic angels sent to test them. But I loved the part this angel had to play.

He looked and dressed like a gangster delivery/hit man. "The old man's dead." "What am I going to do with this envelope of money?" He reports to an old man counting money as if that were Meyer Lansky, financier to the old Mob.

The Money man/angel does a secret money drop. And his English language...hmmm...to make him seem like he's out of an American gangster movie? This angel is in a rush because he's going on vacation. But not before he runs a little numbers racket.

By the way, the number he picked was 35. In numerology, which is said to have Jewish roots, adds up to the number 8 which is the number of prosperity and wealth. Of course, basic numerology will tell you that wealth does not necessarily just mean money.

Todah raba, chaverim.

Shmuel

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The huge population in Russia of ethnic Jews never spoke Yiddish... so there must be a trend of speaking Russian or Russo-Hebrew (does this exist?) there and speaking strict Hebrew for religious occasions?

There is a similar trend with Classical Arabic (religious), as opposed to Modern Standard, or Gulf, or the other dialects which are considered more pure than the offshoots like Moroccan or Egyptian Arabic.

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Rubrew

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"The huge population in Russia of ethnic Jews never spoke Yiddish... so there must be a trend of speaking Russian or Russo-Hebrew (does this exist?) there and speaking strict Hebrew for religious occasions? "

Not true at all...most of the Ashkenazi Jews in Russia spoke Yiddish as a first language, and Russian as a second language, until fairly recently. However, many started to assimilate and strove to adopt Russian as their mother tongue and started to abandon Yiddish, beginning in the late 19th century, and this process continued through the Soviet years (although Yiddish was recognized as an official language of the USSR). However, probably after the end of WW2, the majority of Soviet Jews increasingly didn't know Yiddish (or Hebrew)as they wanted to assimilate within Russia, except for small pockets in western Ukraine who still clung more to traditions and religion. Also, many of the Jews in the USSR were not Ashkenazi, and Yiddish was alien to them. I am talking about Jews native to the Caucasus region in places like Georgia and Azerbaijan, who spoke the languages of those regions in addition to Russian as a 2nd language, or spoke a Jewish dialect combining features of Persian,Russian and Hebrew (this is called Judeao-Tat) or Judeao-Georgian.
However, Russian has also had an influence on modern Hebrew for over a century too, as many of the Zionists who engaged in the revival of the Hebrew language had roots in Russia (including Eliezer ben Yehuda). That's why you find words like 'balagan" (originally a Persian word, actually), "bardak", etc. in modern Israeli Hebrew. Also a tendency to end certain foreign words with the suffix "aktzia" comes from Russian, e.e., "reaktzia", "konkordatzia", etc. The Russian influence continues in Hebrew as so many former Russian Jews continue to settle in Israel today.

"There is a similar trend with Classical Arabic (religious), as opposed to Modern Standard, or Gulf, or the other dialects which are considered more pure than the offshoots like Moroccan or Egyptian Arabic. "

A better comparison would be to non-Arab Muslim societies such as Pakistan or Indonesia, where Arabic is the religious language and Urdu or Bahasa Indonesian are the lingua franca.

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Your explanations were very erudite and enlightening mikhaelmeir-1, thank you for posting them.

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Shmuel: Some answers to your questions.

"When I've watched Israeli films, the characters playing the Haredim often have an accent that sounds to me like it's tinged with Yiddish....So is that true that a lot of Haredis speak Hebrew with a Yiddish accent? "

Israeli-born (sabra) Haredim usually speak conversational Hebrew with the same accent that other native-born Israeli Hebrew speakers have, although those haredim who are of Eastern European Ashkenazic ancestry will most often pronounce Hebrew in the Yiddish/Ashkenazi style when they are praying...unless they are former secular Israelis who have become "ba'alei teshuva" (i.e., "born again" --to use a Christian term--and have become newly Orthodox--kind of like the heroes of Ushpizin). In that case, many of them will pray with the regular Israeli style neo-sephardic Sabra accent, but sometimes they tend to adopt the Ashkenazi style (yiddish inflected) when they pray. The Haredim/Chassidim you find outside of Israel, like in Boro Park, Brooklyn, London, Montreal or Antwerp (big haredi centers) will almost never use the Israeli style either in casual speech or in prayer (indeed, outside Israel you will almost never hear a charedi-unless he is an Israeli haredi--use Hebrew for anything except prayer or study), and they almost exclusively use the Yiddish/Ashkenazi style. An exception is if a haredi moves from someplace like Brooklyn or London to Israel and then finds himself in the Hebrew-speaking environment, in which case he tries to sound Israeli sometimes (and doesn't pull it off)...which leads me to your second question, about the "money man"/"gangster"/"angel" character--

"One character that I really liked in the film was the man with the money. His Hebrew sounded funny. So did his English..."

He was American (or maybe Canadian). He is a frum (ultra-Orthodox guy, haredi) Litvak from North America who was living in Jerusalem. Come out here to NYC, hang out in a neighborhood like Boro Park,(you can find them in Toronto too) and you meet a lot of people who speak "yeshivish" English like that guy. Yeshivish is a dialect that a lot of Orthodox people speak, its neither English, Hebrew or Yiddish, but a combination of all three, with Aramaic expressions thrown in too. The Hebrew/Aramaic is usually given a Yiddish inflection, but with the long American vowels. When you have someone who grows up speaking that dialect who later moves to Israel and tries to speak conversational Israeli Hebrew with a "Sephardic" (which technically isn't even sephardic, but never mind for now)Israeli accent, it gets even more confused.

"He looked and dressed like a gangster delivery/hit man."

Hehe, well, that's how most of the people in his particular group typically dress. He was ultra-Orthodox, which makes him "haredi" but he was not chassidic, and you would call him, just guesisng by the way he dresses, a mitnaged" (misnogid in the Yiddish pronunciation) or a "Litvak" (Yiddish for Lithuanian). The "misnogdim" (literally, the "opponents" were those very Orthodox Jews, primarily baed in Lithuania, who were opposed to Hassidic Judaism when it arose in Eastern Europe in the 17th century. Their descendants and those who belong to these kinds of groups today generally dress up in a dark suit, white shirt with a black fedora, and usually are clean-shaven, but this style arose in the early 20th century, late 19th century. Actually, when they started dressing this way, they were considered pretty modern looking! Today, it's like a "uniform," for what people call "yeshivish", "litvish" or "misnogdish" types. There is nothing written in stone that they dress this way, its just the fashion!

"And his English language...hmmm...to make him seem like he's out of an American gangster movie?"

Hmm, maybe, but come to Boro Park, as I said before, and people talk that way!

Mike

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Mike,

Thank you for your very informative answer. I learned a lot. I actually did go to Boro Park recently. (California is my home) I asked a modern Orthodox man, "where is everyone?" He said, "In the Catskills and Berkshires." I didn't know people still went. I also couldn't find a decent dairy place on 13th Avenue.

As a viewer, I still see and wonder if the director used the mitnaged for who he was, but also playfully let him be an image of a gangster for the reasons I listed above. We often view gangsters in a comedic manner.

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If you want a decent dairy place on 13th Ave., try Amnon's. Darn good kosher pizza, esp. in the pizza capital of America!

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Thank you, Aztec Malka! Next time I'm in New York I'll have to try it.

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