I think it is more complicated than simple suicide but this idea is definitely in the film. As the film portrays it (who of us can say about reality) there are definitely many times when Jesse is suicidal and almost seeks death, draws the man toward him who will kill him (and provides weapon, opportunity and indeed motive!) as if that were always intention. On the other side, Jesse is shown as unpredictable, paranoid, his mood ever changing - one day embracing death, the next suspicious of those closest to him, the next, seemingly full of joy and giving...
What is true in both reality and the film is that times were changing. Until after his death, by this point in time, Jesse was no longer seen as the revered hero. He was beginning to be seen as criminal not just by the law but by everyone. And he no longer had a gang around him. He could not commit the crimes that gave him the rush of life. I think the difference for Jesse and his older brother other than personality was maybe that Frank was older when he was first a guerilla during the Civil War. Jesse was young enough that the actions he undertook (I mean, as well as killing, things like scalping people! I am sure some time I read Jesse was supposedly particularly good at it all...) changed or created who he was as a person. Jesse never wanted to go straight. He liked the power and buzz of crime and of fame and those days were over... And well, I mean, Jesse was a psychopath. He could kill easy as. That is what his Civil War experiences created. A dangerous, disturbed, murderous (yet also charming, and of course, in some respects loving - to family and such) man.
I mean I think the film suggests all is not well mentally speaking in Jesse's head. Seems clear enough with reality. By this point, for Jesse, it was only a matter of time until he was caught. He was basically just waiting to be caught. Ironically, Bob's killing of Jesse is the thing that secured his legacy in a more positive light. Had he been captured, I'd imagine he'd be remembered far more as the criminal... In killing Jesse, Bob instead secures his own legacy as the coward of the title. Is this the Bob of the film though? Certainly not.
In terms of Jesse's death, well, he does take off the gun belt. Is he asking Bob to kill him? Waiting for it? Or does he do it as if to suggest he knows Bob won't kill him? Or is it even further a threat - I know I am safe... but later, with what I know, you won't be... It is ambiguous to some degree, as it should be, as we cannot know... at the same time, much is clearly suggested about the psychology of all of these men.
It is well over a year since I last watched the film so I don't remember everything clearly so sorry for any mistakes in my memory... time for a re-watch soon though I think.
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getthepapersgetthepapers9698
8 years ago
Been a while since I checked this. I appreciate the response. It's one of those movie endings that can be thought about and reconsider d forever. I'm grateful for it and am planning a rewatch myself.
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vendor-14
8 years ago
I just re-watched and, without having read the book, am convinced that Jesse groomed Bob to be his way out of an untenable situation. As stated above, times had changed and Jesse was a hunted man who was more likely to be sold out by current or former associates than to die in an attempted robbery. He couldn't go straight and he couldn't get it together to organize a robbery with Charley alone, and was forced to fall back on Bob whom he did not trust for lack of Jim Cummins, Wood Hite, and Dick Liddell who were nowhere to be found.
With Bob and Charley under his thumb, Jesse had two options. He could use them to pull off one last robbery and get them killed off to protect himself, or he could use them to bring about his own demise and assure his own legend. We know from multiple scenes that Jesse was highly aware of and enjoyed his own fame.
So the three men holed up with the family in St. Joseph and plotted the robbery in Platte City. Stuck in that small house together, the narrator points out that Jesse was moody, determined to keep Bob and Charley separated and under control, and we see how threatening his behavior is to Bob in the parlor scene. The narrator points out that Jesse casts sad looks at Bob when others don't see, revealing his melancholy and vulnerability.
In the scene where Jesse gives the gun to Bob, the very first thing he says is, "You're going to break a lot of hearts." I think he's talking about his own fans who will be upset after Bob kills him, and that he is giving Bob a decent gun to make sure he does a good clean job of killing him. Then he talks about one of the people who has written about him. So his very next topic is related to his personal fame. It convinces me of Jesse's awareness that if his own sidekick kills him it will secure his legend as a victim rather than as the terrorist and murderer he really was.
In the breakfast scene, when Jesse realizes Bob surely knew Dick had been arrested and was part of a deal to turn him in for a reward, he knew it was time for one of them to die. He let Bob and Charley leave the kitchen ahead of him.
When Jesse got to the parlor and asked, "Are you ready?" Charley as always said the right thing and answered, "I'll be ready at noon." In other words, Charley was telling Jesse that he was not in on the reward deal and was willing to stick to the Platte City plan. So Jesse knew the betrayal was Bob's deal. They all knew Jesse was not going to surrender himself into their custody, and the only resolution was going to be Jesse's death or Bob and Charley's deaths. As he listened to Mary's poem, Jesse decided there was no time like the present and so he decided to go for it. He disarmed himself and presented his back so Bob could shoot him through the head.
Of course this is not based on history. This is what the film presented, or at least how I saw the film. I thought it was clear that Jesse planned either to kill Charley and Bob during the trip to Platte City or to get killed by Bob, whichever made the most sense at the time. To groom Bob, Jesse turned Bob from being his number one fan (cigars on the porch, etc) to hating him (Martha's kitchen) and seeing his vulnerability. Then Jesse armed Bob properly and made himself a target.
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spiral_static
8 years ago
I think it is quite interesting to think about the fact that Jesse's Father and the brother who had he lived would have been closest in age to Jesse were called Robert too. This has to have been something Jesse thought about at some time. Also, he seems from what I have read to have believed in rather mystical things, so who knows quite what he may have thought...
I don't think it is so simple as the film presenting one unambiguous viewpoint of Jesse's intentions, but Bob killing him surely served Jesse well in terms of his legacy, and on top of this the film unequivocally shows Jesse as often craving death and showing ambivalence towards life (for example when he shoots the ice) and a sometimes depressed state of mind.
I can certainly see how you could see the film as implying it was definitely all Jesse's plan and of course it is possible for all of the reasons you state! Bob was a young kid who idolised Jesse too, so he'd be easy to mould to Jesse's whim whatever that may be. On the other hand, Jesse did love his family very much. And with his craving for fame and vanity, would he really have completely given over to death? I'm not sure...? How long would he have known he wanted Bob for this task? What would Jesse have done had he discovered Bob's true feelings sooner (I mean, Jesse is suspicious of the Ford's and by the end won't allow them to spend time alone together without him... doesn't sound like a man who definitely wants to die..)
I agree Jesse (as seen in the film) would have killed Bob and Charley had Bob not killed him. As for grooming him, I felt it more as Bob adored Jesse, and as you do when you love someone Bob had ideas of being one of the most important people to Jesse... whereas in reality he merely discovered both that his perfect idea of Jesse James was not the reality of who the man was - in fact Jesse was cruel - generally, but upsettingly, more specifically towards Bob and Bob also probably always felt like the kid brother in life and kinda powerless (he's still only 19) and he likely imagined that was something that'd give him power. What he found was that he was the butt of jokes to everyone still, Jesse included. Just that Jesse's jokes can end up more sinister. But Bob discovered his own insignificance. I don't think it was intentional by Jesse to belittle Bob but I think early on he felt suspicion, of Bob specifically and, well, Jesse was by this point in life incredibly suspicious of literally everyone.
I still hold out hope someday that we could see the Director's cut of this film which Andrew Dominik has said he could put out very easily since I assume it would contain more of Bob's life post-Jesse which is very informative and poignant in the book by Ron Hansen. Because you discover who Bob becomes by the time he is older and in so discovering that you understand who and what he could have been had he never encountered Jesse in the first place. I think you still feel this from the film as it is to a degree, but it is deeper in the novel as the film spends little time in this afterwards place.
Casey Affleck is a potential Oscar winner with this year's Manchester by the Sea. Could that inspire the release of the Director's Cut? Oh I hope so!
Oh, I want to do a re-watch of this film now! It has been ages since I watched! Thus, sorry if I said anything wrong. It is over a year since I watched the film! Maybe over two?!?!
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vendor-14
8 years ago
Your memory is terrific. I would be very interested to see if your opinions change after you've had a chance to see it again.
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vendor-14
8 years ago
Your memory is terrific. I would be very interested to see if your opinions change after you've had a chance to see it again. In the meantime, I need to read the book.
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