MovieChat Forums > Juno (2007) Discussion > Can understand Mark pov

Can understand Mark pov

posted 9 years ago by Breakwood83
9 replies | jump to latest

Im not talking about him being a bordeline pedophile, that is a completly another subject matter

I can understand mark for wanting to divorce his wife. She seem to be a complete control freak, they live in a mansion size house, completly pristine, cheesy pictures of them everywhere, the poor guy has only the basement to store his possessions and a little work place , those are the only 2 places where he can somewhat express himself. Its hinted he cant even watch movies or play music. His wife torture him with the chore of choosing colors for the room. Bottom line the guy doesnt live one minute of his life for himself. No wonder he doesnt want a child with her, he is already giving all hes got. For all we know he would have maybe wanted a child with a woman more in tune with him.

[–] Degree7 9 years ago

Then why did he marry Vanessa? Obviously marriage means commitment, and if he didn't want to accept the responsibility of being a grown up, then he should have never become a husband in the first place.

Vanessa was a little bit anal, but Mark was also stuck in the past and not mature enough to handle having a family.

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

[–] jarethismyking 8 years ago

I agree with you. Mark had to know what he was signing up for when he got married. Vanessa was pretty vocal about her desire to be a mother, so he had to know about it way in advance. Maybe he thought he'd change his tune once she got pregnant or once they found someone to adopt from, but there's no way he went into that not knowing the way she was and what she wanted.

[–] chas437 8 years ago

Agree with you and the others, you have to wonder how Mark and Vanessa were ever a couple.

On the other hand, I could see how Vanessa became even more of a control freak once Juno came along. I can also see how Vanessa saw Mark as a project, and hoped he would fall into line once the baby came.

On the contrary, Juno made Mark feel young and alive again, and helped prompt him to leave Vanessa.

I gotta say, women like Vanessa are the reason divorce rates are so high.

[–] darren-oconnor 8 years ago

Just to clarify, Mark was not a pedophile. Not even borderline. Most people do not understand at all what the term means. Clinically, a pedophile is someone who has a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. Someone with a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to an adolescent (which Juno is in the movie), is an ephebophile. And even then, it has to be a primary or exclusive or attraction. That means he would be mainly attracted to adolescents, not also sometimes attracted to adolescents.

I saw nothing to suggest that ephebophilia was indicated. Even completely normal people are sometimes drawn to very attractive adolescents, since adolescents are beginning to display developed sexual characteristics. And Mark was not, I think, attracted mainly to Juno's physical youth, it was more to her spiritual youth and free-spiritedness. Vanessa was very structured and controlling. She was the very opposite of a free-spirited youth. Look how pristine and "correctly" decorated according to the style of the times their house was, like something out of "Better Homes and Gardens." And look at the elaborate care with which she made sure nothing was out of place when Juno and her Dad came to visit. With her, everything had to be just so, at all times. She was a very tight, straight-laced, respectable, sort of person, and Mark was a brash, loose, free and easy, laid back kind of person. Fundamentally, they were just incompatible personalities, and as such, their relationship was never going to succeed. Mark simply saw in Juno a person much more like himself than his wife was, and he was drawn to her because she was something of a kindred spirit, not specifically because she was young.

[–] GirlwonderReturns 8 years ago

Thanks for the psych lesson, but it's all beside the point. Whatever the primary attraction, Juno was a teenager, he was closing in on 40, and him hitting on her was completely inappropriate and creepy. As for Vanessa, are we to assume that the whole time they were dating and throughout their marriage, Mark had no idea what type of personality she had? As desperate as she was to have children, there is no way he didn't know she wanted them long before Juno came into the picture. If he didn't want them or wasn't ready, he should have manned up and told her much sooner.

On top of that, Juno's youth had everything to do with Mark being drawn to her - not necessarily sexually, but as far as maturity level. They got along so well because he was immature. Nothing wrong with liking punk rock and horror films in your 30's and beyond, but he was aching to live a rock and roll lifestyle and to go back to his youth. And however you want to classify him, "creep" is part of that classification.

The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

[–] darren-oconnor 8 years ago

Thanks for the psych lesson, but it's all beside the point. Whatever the primary attraction, Juno was a teenager, he was closing in on 40, and him hitting on her was completely inappropriate and creepy. As for Vanessa, are we to assume that the whole time they were dating and throughout their marriage, Mark had no idea what type of personality she had?

Why would he have to have no idea? The human capacity for self-deception and wishful thinking is breathtaking, and Vanessa is a pretty smoking hot chick. Why would it be hard to believe at all that Mark would rationalize away her faults (from his point of view, in terms of her suitability as a match for him I mean, not that these traits are bad in and of themselves)? People do stuff like that all the time. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high?

For that matter, shouldn't Vanessa also have realized Mark wasn't right for her? That he was one of those immature guys who was not likely ever to grow up and be the paragon of responsibility and middle class respectability that she wanted him to be? You're king of forgetting she chose him as much as he chose her, aren't you?

As desperate as she was to have children, there is no way he didn't know she wanted them long before Juno came into the picture. If he didn't want them or wasn't ready, he should have manned up and told her much sooner.

And how many people put off doing the hard thing for the sake of doing the convenient thing? How many, though they've realized that they made a mistake, stick with it for a long time before they face the music? This is especially true in the case of relationships, where people invest a lot of themselves, emotionally. They are so invested, they really want to make it work, and they stick around long after it's obvious that there's no future there. Incidentally, this is a lot of the reason many divorces are so bitter: the couple sticks together for so long after first passion, but finally also affection has faded, and it allows for a lot of irritation and ill will to get stored up before it finally all comes to a head.

On top of that, Juno's youth had everything to do with Mark being drawn to her - not necessarily sexually, but as far as maturity level. They got along so well because he was immature. Nothing wrong with liking punk rock and horror films in your 30's and beyond, but he was aching to live a rock and roll lifestyle and to go back to his youth. And however you want to classify him, "creep" is part of that classification.

Part of the reason he may have wanted to go back to you his youth is that he was forced to give it up before he was ready. With Vanessa, he had to put nose to grindstone and pursue the upper middle class suburban ideal when he really wanted to be a carefree teenager for a while longer, and try to make it as the kind of musician he grew up becoming. Is that a character flaw? Arguably. But arguably no more so that being a controlling person who wants to remake someone to suit her idea of what he ought to be.

The problem is the two of them just weren't a good match for each other, and should never have gotten married in the first place.

[–] Chipmaniac 8 years ago

You nailed it. Sometimes you marry one person and end up with another as they change or show their real self.

[–] Phantom_Poster 8 years ago

Correct. It's also possible he met Vanessa after mildly accepting the fact he wasn't going to be the musician he wanted to be. And to further fool himself that he was ready to settle down, he chose someone who was grounded in the concept of settling down and having a family. It seems every time they got close to actually having a family, Mark would get "cold feet".

- I reply, and then I'm gone.

[–] Olahn 8 years ago

I can understand Mark's POV, but he is being selfish and that's not right or wrong, it's what he is at the time.

A marriage can only work when both individuals sacrifice some individualism to fit with each other.

I mean they are upper middle class with a big house, luxury cars with great jobs and I can understand them focusing more on what they don't have... which is (1) a family and (2) Individual wants. The 2nd is primarily relating to Mark, he wants to re-live his younger days. I can understand some people here agreeing with him and I can also understand the ones who doesnt.

But ultimately, Mark is being selfish and he doesnt want to compromise anymore.
Vanessa in the other hand wants a family, thats what she wants... sure she is controlling, but a lot of people can be controlling. Things GET done when controlling people gets involved.... the opposite of controlling is just letting things go with the flow.... SURE, if you are a billionaire with 10 wonderful kids and a wonderful wife and family, you can probably afford to go with the flow.... but Vanessa wants a family soon, time is not on her side, she wants to raise a child along with her friends to have some commonalities with them, not only that... she wants to have a FAMILY soon. Mark wants to go back to his teen years, be care free, no responsibilities and probably less pressure...

As a male, maybe a few years ago I could relate to Mark a lot... I love my videogames, my films, my sports, cars, gadgets, friends, socialising... basically anything outside of being a committed husband. But I realized, a significant other is more important and spending time with them is more meaningful.

Mark is not wrong from many perspective... but for people who wants him to be part of a family and be responsible and committed.. he is wrong.