MovieChat Forums > Ex Machina (2015) Discussion > Good, but I don't buy that he "fell" for...

Good, but I don't buy that he "fell" for Ava in ONE WEEK

posted 8 years ago by jname967
52 replies | jump to latest

I think we can all say we've seen this kind of concept before: "Robot-takes-over-human..." so it's not like this kind of story is a shocking revelation. But despite that, it was a good story.

My main beef with this movie was that I didn't buy that Caleb was sufficiently won over by Ava. Maybe I missed it, but they didn't seem to have that much chemistry. Burgeoning sparks, perhaps. But in one week? Give me a break. I'm assuming the screenwriter was trying to make a parallel with the number seven being the amount of days God needed to create life on Earth, or perhaps it's just more believable that Caleb's project only lasted a week.

I don't think anyone could "fall" for—robot or human—in those conditions, in just one week. And yeah, the argument that Caleb's "preferences" were utilized to the hilt by Nathan via the search engine algorithm, etc. still doesn't render the arc believable in my eyes.

Also, this movie obviously took place in present time (the smartphone at the beginning of the film, the internet references, etc..) In this day and age, someone like Caleb should be able to see Ava's motives and predicament with a healthy dose of awareness. Unless, part of the sci-fi aspect of this story is that no one on their version of Earth has seen their fair share of "Robot-takes-over-human..." stories already! LOL. I mean, Caleb was well aware that he was testing to see if the robot could be convincingly sentient... he should know that she ISN'T, and wouldn't have been so empathetic and convinced by her to try and "overthrow" her "master", as any self-respecting, self-aware human in the twenty-first century would know already.

That said, I still enjoyed the movie. As implied, I can watch sci-fi movies with a healthy dose of suspension of disbelief. In our world, we've all seen this before. But the genre "sci-fi" itself lends itself to well, fiction.

[–] jgroub 8 years ago

Well, I'll disagree. Imagine if your "perfect woman" were talking with you. And showing interest in you. And confiding in you.

That is the situation Nathan presents to Caleb. He has looked at his web searches, his porn searches, and created this perfect woman for Caleb to interact with - both in terms of her looks and the subject matter they speak of. Yes, you're right, they don't show quite enough of their conversations, but that would have been pretty boring, y'know? We're only shown significant portions of their conversation over the course of 7 days. It's not as if they're just talking for 5 minutes at a time each day.

Now, he doesn't have to "fall for" her in terms of being head-over-heels in love with her, and wanting to run away with her to marry her. That's not the point. But I can see that he would "fall for" her enough to want to free her from her captivity. You could certainly argue, "Well, they should have shown more significant bits of conversation that would lead the audience to believe there was more of an attraction there," and you might be right about that. But I thought they did enough.

When you say that Caleb should have realized that she isn't sentient, I completely disagree with that assessment. Caleb and Nathan talk about how she uses sarcasm when she throws the line back at him. That requires an awareness not only of your own mind, but an awareness of the mind of another, a very sophisticated level of awareness.

I'll also refer you to the scene where Caleb is breaking into Nathan's computer and watching the footage of the earlier models, and their reactions to being imprisoned, to the point where they are destroying themselves out of their frustration and captivity. That is enough to convince Caleb both of their "human-ness" and of the need to free Ava. I can buy that.

I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

[–] jname967 8 years ago

That's a fair argument. I'm not averse to opposing views on my opinion of this film.

I guess I feel like it's a missed opportunity in some respects: I wish there were more allusions (without giving it all away before the climax) that Ava was truly Caleb's "ideal woman", you know? Little hints would have been enticing and rewarding as it built towards the revelation.

Aw well.

[–] hotwheeler89 8 years ago

It kinda depends on how lonely you are too. He didn't seem like the kind that did any socializing outside of work. I've developed strong feelings for girls that I've only spoken to a couple times even though they showed no signs on interest. And Ava was pretending to have feelings towards him. I'm not saying Caleb was as desperate as I am but he could have been.

Why is it our job to save everyone? Haven't we done enough?

[–] theCurlyone 8 years ago

Also, note that Caleb was skeptical at first. He asked nathan outright whether ava was programmed to like him; nathan put the situation into a context that allowed caleb to engage unreservedly.

"somebody used to live here"

[–] Lady_Elaine_Fairchild 8 years ago

I have read falling in love is as simple as looking someone in the eyes and answering 36 specific questions.

She had his search history so yes she could predict how to make him fall in love with her in a week.

As a renaissance chick, I paint, write, and sing loudly off-key.

[–] kaskait 8 years ago

There is no AVA, there is only Nathan.

Caleb fell in love with Nathan. It was Nathan programming each night after the "sessions", tweaking the doll to mimic what Caleb liked.

The experiment was Caleb not Ava.

[–] Paul_Mall 8 years ago

lol

[–] Da_Violentsnail 8 years ago

That is an interesting take and one I admittedly did not think of. However, I don't recall any evidence that Nathan was actively re adjusting AVA after every session. I believe the whole concept of the movie is that Nathan was playing God and had successfully created a true sentient being of Artificial intelligence (and then proceeds to explore the implications of such actions). So to suggest that it was a ruse fabricated by Nathan doesn't tie into the theme.

[–] theCurlyone 8 years ago

This also doesn't fit with the footage of Nathan upsetting Ava, in tearing up her picture of Caleb.
Nor the ultimately vain revelation of how Ava was likely manipulating Caleb. If Nathan's goal was to work a successful manipulation of another human, this would be the most contrived and convoluted way to do so, with no real world value as there are already far simpler means.
Interesting concept, but doesn't wholly work for the narrative.

"somebody used to live here"

[–] kaskait 8 years ago

It was all a set up to rile up Caleb.

This is all a twisted psychological experiment involving Caleb. The why of it doesn't really make sense because Nathan has long since lost his ethics and his sanity.

[–] SydneysMaster 8 years ago

And that turns you on right! Ew!

Scientists have recently discovered the oldest living a.i. chatbot to have ever existed.

[–] userrrrr 8 years ago

if that made you honestly say "ew", you need to lock yourself up in your parents house for the rest of your life because you can't handle life. that is the most innocuous thing i've ever heard someone hypothetically being turned on from (even though i know thats not the case here). toughen up hon.

🐙

[–] SydneysMaster 8 years ago

You get turned on by some sick sick stuff userrrr

[–] trifocal_skink 8 years ago

Um no.

Nathan passed out smashed drunk each night, he did no programming.

[–] kaskait 8 years ago

Oh so he spends all his time in front of consoles with notes and diagrams just for nothing.

Since obviously there is no WiFI that Ava can access, the downloads occur when she puts her hand on the recharge pad. That gives her her new directives.

Isn't it interesting that Ava changes her operandi each time she touches it after the Caleb sessions. That is all Nathan trying to make her into Caleb's dream woman.

[–] GoodSOVeryVeryGood 8 years ago

It was Nathan programming each night after the "sessions", tweaking the doll to mimic what Caleb liked.

Except that never happened, not even once. The most interference Nathan had was planting the camera after the visit with Ava.

[–] yusef-ghanima 8 years ago

you don't make any sense, a guy can fell in a moment, and they designed her according to his porn preferences.

[–] ModernHorror 8 years ago

I "fell" for her after like 20 minutes.

He must have thought it was white boy day. It ain't white boy day, is it?

[–] cmiller8-1 8 years ago

She's freaking hot, is a moral person, and has a good head on her shoulders. I'd put a ring on that in an instant after having to deal with too many vapid empty mean USA women.

[–] LepusThreat 8 years ago

I wouldn't say she was particularly moral, seeing as how she left Caleb trapped to die alone in the house after he enabled her to escape. She successfully convinced him she deserved rescue, but had not a shred of compassion or morality in her once she achieved her goal. But yeah, she was hot. So of course he fell for her.

[–] jakubmike 8 years ago

is a moral person,

I don't think she is moral at all, she is solving a riddle "how to escape from this place because if I don't escape I will die" she found a weak spot, and used it.

has a good head on her shoulders

true, very true, except it is using this head only to get ahead with its agenda. If you like being manipulated and played like a harp each day well... cool.

I'd put a ring on that in an instant

And become her tool.

y vapid empty mean USA women.

See that is the thing, You don't like some woman because you see them as vapid, empty and mean but what if a vapid, empty and mean women played the role of nice, caring and empathic person to get something from you and then disregard you afterwards? Because that is Ava

[–] wlan 8 years ago

well, Caleb was a nerd. he probably never had a girlfriend. Ava was attractive and she pretended to be interested in him. Caleb probably experienced this kind of affection from an attractive girl for the first time and fell for her. However, the bitch was playing, like most girls do all the time. If Caleb had experience with girls, he wouldn't fall for her so easily.

[–] trifocal_skink 8 years ago

Infatuation with seemingly reciprocated feelings good enough for you?

[–] geearf 8 years ago

You're talking about a 20 something year old virgin, that lost all his family a decade ago. (remember his profile and why he was picked)
As soon as something somewhat female glosses at him, he's going to lose it all... that was so easy to foresee.

Whenever Ava asked "Are you attracted to me" or "Do you want to be with me" my only answer would have been "We're not from the same species" (cause we never know if she's truly alive or not, so that can never be the reason), but Caleb? he's not even thinking about that, he's so into that "girl" already...

[–] XXXXshogunXXXX-1 8 years ago

She was custom built based on his porn preferences. He probably fell for her the 1st 5 minutes, as does any young, lonely fool on the internet looking up porn. This is his goddess. Also, once he heard that she has a built in robotic vagina with real moving parts, it was over.

This portion of the movie was believable, he definitely fell for her, it look less than a week.

[–] CoastalCruiser 8 years ago

"...Also, once he heard that she has a built in robotic vagina with real moving parts, it was over."

Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

Oh man. That is hysterical.

[–] jname967 8 years ago

haha, that is funny.

Even then, I'm a tad too skeptical myself to ever make that leap! But yeah: every person is different.

And again: in OUR world, we've all seen enough "robot does a human bad" movies, to fall for this. Seriously.

[–] jimmiemac-97957 8 years ago

Have you ever seen the old Twilight episode "The Lonely"?

It's maybe one of the earliest renditions of robot love. Not really on point, but its a show worth taking in for anyone who enjoys the genre.

For myself, yes, it would probably be wise to steer away from a female robot, but given the human female problems I've had over the years I might see little risk.

But regarding me an Ava... it would likely be a moth to flame type thing. Forget a whole week. I fell for her in an hour and a half. LOL!

[–] CichlidAsh 8 years ago

The physical being of Ava was designed too be his ideal woman couple that with him being a good person and Ava playing his emotional cords and I would imagine that he could fall for her quite easily people fall for people quickly all the time IRL so it is not that much of a stretch of the imagination

To make a great film you need three things - the script, the script and the script -Alfred Hitchcock

[–] super_rodimus_convoy 8 years ago

Maybe YOU wouldn't fall for Ava in a week (if at all) but you're not lonely and, well, pathetic like Caleb was. Plus Nathan mentioned he checked Caleb's porn history to even give Ava a face that's like an amalgam of women Caleb liked.

Indeed this story couldn't have happened with a regular guy with a healthy dating life, not desperate, not awkward with ladies, etc. Someone exactly like that, though, I'm surprised Caleb didn't try to screw her the first day or two.

[–] jname967 8 years ago

Thanks guys for the feedback.

I don't know: I don't have the best love life myself, but I have a healthy dose of cynicism and skepticism, lol. If I knowingly met a robot that incidentally bore ALL the traits of my ideal woman, I'd still think: "ICK IT'S A ROBOT!!!!"

LOL. Hypothetically, of course.

[–] super_rodimus_convoy 8 years ago

But remember, Nathan hand picked Caleb, presumably because while he's not the only guy in that department who doesn't have "best love life", he was the only one who to him appeared desperate enough to put in the test. Ironically the washouts got to live another day, and the "winner" well you saw what happened to the winner. :)

In other words, say YOU worked for the company. Nathan MIGHT have researched you (ie checked your porn history, dating sites you registered to, etc), but based on what you just said, he wouldn't pick you since the process would also reveal you aren't desperate ENOUGH to fall for a toaster with human skin.

[–] jname967 8 years ago

In other words, say YOU worked for the company. Nathan MIGHT have researched you (ie checked your porn history, dating sites you registered to, etc), but based on what you just said, he wouldn't pick you since the process would also reveal you aren't desperate ENOUGH to fall for a toaster with human skin.

Good point. He might catch my snide, jaded barbs against my friends on Facebook, ha. :)