MovieChat Forums > The Prestige (2006) Discussion > Possibly plot hole: How was Alfred Borde...

Possibly plot hole: How was Alfred Borden accused of killing Angier?


I watched the beginning of the movie a zillion times but it would never make sense to me as how Borden was accused of killing Robert in the first place?

How did he get the death penalty where Cutter couldn't explain the whole mechanics of the machine to the judge (considering Cutter himself didn't know how the machine worked)

Can anyone explain it to me, or is it possibly a plot hole and we should try to live with it :D



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A) Borden was on the crime scene, where he shouldn't be, and got there under the false pretense.
B) Borden had a long history of feuding with Angier, several of their previous antics could be fatal as well (on both sides, granted).
C) By Cutter's testimony, the particular way of Angier's death is related to the very event that started the feud.
D) While Cutter couldn't explain how exactly the trick works, he stated (and presumably, this also counted as testifying under oath) that the method is based on some scientific gizmo produced by "electric wizard" Tesla and was indeed transporting the man as advertised. In such circumstances, Angier keeping the secret even from his partner and close friend was somewhat unusual, but not really unexpected in his line of work.
E) Since the water tank *was* a part of the other trick, it made sense that it wasn't part of *this* trick, and therefore its presence on the crime scene implied malice.

Even though all that is collateral evidence, the sum of it was enough to persuade the judge.
__________________________________
Oh my god! They killed Angier!
YOU BASTARDS!!!

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My verdict:
No jury or judge can declare a man guilty unless its proven.... In this case it just didn't make sense.
Also, how could he be guilty when Cutter saw him trying to break the glass of water tank and free Robert?
He himself was shocked to see Robert drowning, He also screamed, Where's the bloody key, Where's the bloody key? The people in the audience could've testified the same.... The key to tank was not found either.
Men working for Robert, the blind lot, were they IN on it as well? If the judge had asked them, they could've simply said that this was part of Robert's last trick, and it was always placed there, for the LAST trick.....

I'm confused as how they got Borden accused of the crime without evidence. He shouldn't have been accused of being guilty let alone the severe punishment. I take that Chris Nolan had to proceed with the story and to make the point but he sure did miss thew fine details.

For me it is a perfect motion picture and small matters like these don't really ruin anything. I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything.

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No jury or judge can declare a man guilty unless its proven


I didn't know the movie took place in the United States in the present day.

Different countries in different time periods have different rules for their trials.

Can't stop the signal.

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I didn't know the movie took place in the United States in the present day.

Different countries in different time periods have different rules for their trials.


Exactly.

In today's court a testimony like "He is a magician. Ask him!", or "I have the right to protect the magician's box from being examined by the court" would be held in contempt.
Lack of evidence got an innocent man a death sentence instead of acquitting him from one. go figure.

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Well, given that many men have been sentenced to death and executed, only to be revealed innocent later, it doesn't surprise me that they convicted Borden without proving it. Obviously, you can't prove something if it's factually false.

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F) If the presence of the watertank on the crime scene alone didn't imply malice, then the fact that the trick lock on the lid had been replaced by a real lock, certainly would;
G) Borden had motives for "payback" to Angier;
H) The fact that Borden was shouting "Where's the bloody key!?" and trying to break the glass doesn't exonerate him; Borden had a history of messing with others' performances, he could still be guilty of a prank gone wrong;
I) Borden probably had a lousy lawyer;
J) Behind the scenes, the trial was possibly being steered by the influence of a certain Lord Caldlow.

See also http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0482571/board/nest/242237795?d=242275848#242275848

______
Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
https://y2u.be/VI57QHL6ge0

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Unfortunately, I am still not satisfied. I'm sure the director let the details off screen due to the same reason as this cannot justly be explained.....

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Points A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H were explicitly shown in the movie, point J was strongly hinted at; only point I is what was never shown on screen, so it's merely conjecture on my part.

I'd guess the screenwriters weren't thoroughly knowledgable enough on the specialistic field of legal procedures in Victorian/Edwardian England, hence why they kept those and other details out/in the background. It's merely the outcome that matters though, and how the main characters (Borden, Angier) deal with it. I don't think the outcome was that far-fetched.


______
Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
http://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0

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It would be kind to alter the title of your thread, as it appears on the main page at the moment.

Not starting anything, I'm just a fan of perusing those thread titles that appear below the review (and sometimes those on the board page too) to get a rough of idea of a movie's reception if it's one I haven't seen.


...then whoa, differences...

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It would be kind to alter the title of your thread, as it appears on the main page at the moment.

Not starting anything, I'm just a fan of perusing those thread titles that appear below the review (and sometimes those on the board page too) to get a rough of idea of a movie's reception if it's one I haven't seen.
I'm not the OP. However, I just want to say that Borden standing trial and being accused of killing Angier, is introduced to us pretty much at the very beginning of the movie; so OP's subject heading is hardly a spoiler (regardless of whether Borden was guilty or not).

______
Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
http://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0

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I see your point. I haven't seen it for a while, my memory is fuzzy.

Thanks for the clarification!

OP, please disregard.


...then whoa, differences...

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Thanks for clarifying it Yurenchu.

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My question exactly when i watched this film. The "he's a magician, ask him" line was especially ridiculous.

I'm a big fan of the courthouse drama films, so to me the easiness of that conviction was much more suspicious and unbelievable than the magic tricks themselves. Where's the "innocent unless proven guilty" principle?

Basically, there are several ways that conviction could have been battled.

1) Nobody cared to prove that Borden was the one who put the glass container under the stage. We are clearly shown that it only took him several seconds from getting behind the stage to reaching the container, so creating a 500 gallon tank right below the stage within that time frame is no less magical feat than the whole show.

2) Cutter explaining the judge the mechanics of the water tank in private. Not only that defies the adversary nature of the judicial process, but it also leaves the judge prone to manipulation by the prosecution's witness.

3) Cutter is also not aware of the secret behind the machine's working principle (otherwise he wouldn't be surprised to see Angier alive as Lord Caldlow), so making others believe that he's aware of it is an obvious perjury. Others don't know it, but still it's a factor hindering justice.

4) Sentencing Borden to death without even trying the machine that was used for the trick is basically the judge channeling the prosecution's position. They must have undertaken an investigative experiment of sort to prove that Angier's death was a result of Borden's intent and not some accident which he was just unlucky to witness.

5) Borden was actually the one who was screaming from under the stage about the key and who was trying to break the walls of the water tank. So if the court was convinced that Borden's long-lasting feud with Angier was enough of a motive for Borden to commit a murder then it defies all logic for Borden to reveal himself on the crime scene instead of simply walking away.

6) Now some hard evidence. Angier's journal, which has been proven to be written in Angier's handwriting. The last entry of that journal is a direct address to Borden mentioning his predicament of that time (sitting in jail awaiting to be hung for his murder). It should have been at least considered by the court as a basis for a further investigation.

7) Angier revealing himself to Borden as Lord Caldlow. Excellent, now Borden can easily file an appeal on the court's verdict, requesting that Caldlow be summoned as a witness and Angier's exhumation be performed to prove that they are the same person.

Anyway, either the British courts were a highly unjust place a century ago or this conviction was a far-fetched attempt by Nolan brothers to create something to build the whole story on.

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Actually, British courts *were* rather harsh and unforgiving towards defendants at that time period. Read Dickens to get an impression.

The very fact that the watertank was standing under the trapdoor during the trick it was not a part of (and that is obvious *regardless* of whether the working of the machine is explained or not) suggests it to be a result of malicious intent rather than accident, and Borden *has* history of maliciousness towards Angier (just as the other way around, for fairness' sake). It makes sense that Borden, who is witnessed to be entering the crime scene on false pretense, is perceived as a culprit.

As for accusations against Lord Caldlow being Angier, the single word of said Lord is enough to turn it down. You forget that Caldlow isn't a fake name that Angier assumes, it's actually other way around. There's a whole household that can confirm that he is who he says who he is, while the body identified as Robert Angier still lies in the morgue. The accusation will be ridiculed and not even taken seriously to the point where it has to be disproved.

__________________________________
Oh my god! They killed Angier!
YOU BASTARDS!!!

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Actually, British courts *were* rather harsh and unforgiving towards defendants at that time period. Read Dickens to get an impression.

For the sake of historical accuracy, Dickens died in 1870, with his most famous novels written before 1850 and describing the even earlier times ("David Copperfield" being more or less an autobiography).
At the same time, the story of The Prestige takes place on the verge of the 20th century (Angier's journal: "February 8, 1899. Today, finally, a breakthrough. Tesla's agreed to see me"). Fifty years is a big time span even for a country as conservative as England.

The very fact that the watertank was standing under the trapdoor during the trick it was not a part of (and that is obvious *regardless* of whether the working of the machine is explained or not) suggests it to be a result of malicious intent rather than accident, and Borden *has* history of maliciousness towards Angier (just as the other way around, for fairness' sake). It makes sense that Borden, who is witnessed to be entering the crime scene on false pretense, is perceived as a culprit.


There's a big difference between being perceived as a culprit and actually being convicted. As the clause #5 of my list states, Borden had a clear and provable line of behavior that goes against the assumption of his malicious intent. That's circumstantial, but no more circumstantial than the initial assumption itself.

Also, if the machine is a real teleporter (which the judge presumably believed because Cutter told him so), then why the hell the trap door was used in the first place? Where's the mat on which Angier was supposed to fall on in order to avoid injuries? Seriously, if the trick indeed assumed falling under the stage then where's the "proper" props to assist it? One could have easily assumed that the watertank was a makeshift replacement for a tank, unless proven otherwise.

As for accusations against Lord Caldlow being Angier, the single word of said Lord is enough to turn it down. You forget that Caldlow isn't a fake name that Angier assumes, it's actually other way around. There's a whole household that can confirm that he is who he says who he is, while the body identified as Robert Angier still lies in the morgue. The accusation will be ridiculed and not even taken seriously to the point where it has to be disproved.


Actually, I forget nothing. Which introduces the possibility for one big thing called alibi to be used. We know from Angier's journal that he was on a wild goose chase in America for a long time, which Cutter could have confirmed. Awesome, now let's just question the household that you mentioned about Lord Caldlow's whereabouts during the time Angier was in America. Let's also track the money flow used to finance Angier's journey and check whether any large sums were taken from Lord Caldlow's account around the time Angier bought the machine from Tesla. Finally, let's just show the members of the household the post-mortem photos of Angier (which the investigation surely must have taken) and ask them whether they recognize the person on those pics.

So while i realize that the courthouse part of The Prestige is not focal for the film, i still believe that it was the weakest and the most inconsistent one. If that legal process hadn't been a figment of Nolan brothers' imagination, Borden would've walked free.

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Actually, I forget nothing. Which introduces the possibility for one big thing called alibi to be used. We know from Angier's journal that he was on a wild goose chase in America for a long time, which Cutter could have confirmed. Awesome, now let's just question the household that you mentioned about Lord Caldlow's whereabouts during the time Angier was in America. Let's also track the money flow used to finance Angier's journey and check whether any large sums were taken from Lord Caldlow's account around the time Angier bought the machine from Tesla. Finally, let's just show the members of the household the post-mortem photos of Angier (which the investigation surely must have taken) and ask them whether they recognize the person on those pics.
Lord Caldlow is alive, Robert Angier is dead, they can be brought together and shown to any and every witness who dares to claim that they are the same person. That's all the alibi that could be possibly desired, game, set, match, case closed.

__________________________________
Oh my god! They killed Angier!
YOU BASTARDS!!!

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Well, in the world where the judge easily believes that the machine used in Angier's trick is indeed a technical miracle teleporting people from one place to another, i have no reason to oppose the idea that the machine could do something else, or that Lord Caldlow could have a twin he actually wanted to kill and blame it on Borden, or some other insane idea.

You see, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck. Take an example of Lord Caldlow's handwriting and compare it to what we have in Angier's journal. Examine his leg and compare it to the wounds on Angier's dead body. Check their birthmarks.
The result would prove that there's no slightest physical difference between Lord Caldlow and Angier, and the fact that both were absent during Angier's trip to America and the household never saw Lord Caldlow around when Angier's shows were on could be easily viewed as a proof that they are both the same person.

Now since Lord Caldlow is alive and we have proven that he and Angier are effectively the same person, there's no body of a crime in Borden's actions since there was no murder. The body in the water tank - well, now it's for the prosecution to trace its origins, find out the man it belonged to and provide any connections between the death of that man and Borden's actions.

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You see, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck.
Yes. That's exactly why Borden was convicted and sentenced to death.

______
Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
http://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0

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3) Cutter is also not aware of the secret behind the machine's working principle (otherwise he wouldn't be surprised to see Angier alive as Lord Caldlow), so making others believe that he's aware of it is an obvious perjury. Others don't know it, but still it's a factor hindering justice.

Let's look up the meaning of the word perjury:
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perjury:
Perjury, also known as forswearing, is the intentional act of swearing a false oath or of falsifying an affirmation to tell the truth, whether spoken or in writing, concerning matters material to an official proceeding. [...]

Statements which entail an interpretation of fact are not perjury because people often draw inaccurate conclusions unwittingly, or make honest mistakes without the intent to deceive. Individuals may have honest but mistaken beliefs about certain facts, or their recollection may be inaccurate, or may have a different perception of what is the accurate way to state the truth. Like most other crimes in the common law system, to be convicted of perjury one must have had the intention (mens rea) to commit the act, and to have actually committed the act (actus reus). Further, statements that are facts cannot be considered perjury, even if they might arguably constitute an omission, and it is not perjury to lie about matters immaterial to the legal proceeding.
Cutter thought he knew the secret behind Angier's trick, and he truly believed that the machine that Angier bought from Tesla was a working teleporter. That's why he says to the judge that Angier's teleportation trick "is not a trick, Your Honor; it's real!". So Cutter had no intent to deceive the judge; what he told the judge is what he himself really believed to be true. And Cutter is not lying at all, because what he says is actually completely true: Angier's teleportation is indeed real.

Cutter was just not aware that the machine was not just a teleporter, but also a duplicator. However, the fact that his statements towards the judge omit this piece of information (even if Cutter had knowledge of that omitted information, which he obviously didn't) does *not* make his testimony an act of perjury; what Cutter told the judge in private were facts and were all true.


______
Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
http://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0

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Well, thanks for your effort yurenchu. In fact, you're making my point even clearer. Let me elaborate.

Cutter didn't know how the trick works. He didn't construct the machine. He was explicitly forbidden by Angier to go offstage for the Transported Man trick ("I don't want you backstage on this one."). He never saw the trick from the position different from a regular viewer's one. So he has no knowledge whatsoever, he only has assumptions.

The act of perjury occurs when Cutter starts passing his assumptions for facts. He never clearly stated that he has no first-hand experience with the machine, nor had he seen it in action up close. He omitted an important fact that for this specific trick he was never allowed into the "restricted area", which might be the only reason why he's not aware of the role of the watertank.
Still, he claims to possess the trick's secret, to the point that he knows how to sell it on. The defense could have easily claimed that it's nothing but an elaborate tactics to push the whole process under the rug, away from the public view. After all, this trick is nothing without the machine (which Cutter presumably believes in), and the machine doesn't belong to Cutter so he can't get any monetary gain from this trick anymore.

I guess it could have been made clearer if Borden wasn't all silent during the trial. We are let to believe that even Borden from his seat could see that Angier goes down under the stage during the trick. Could Cutter explain why it was a part of the trick's mechanics if the machine was indeed real as he claimed to the judge? And where's the props under the stage to break Angier's fall if the trapdoor is used? Too many questions which the witness who claims to bear the full knowledge of the trick simply can't answer.

Anyway, i'm highly surprised that Cutter was allowed to testify at all. He has a history of violent behavior against Borden and Fallon, when Angier and he basically buried Fallon alive. So now we could assume that Cutter has a clear motif to see Borden dead as well, so his testimony might have been intentionally false and could not be the only ground for conviction.

Seriously, there's no plausible reason for Borden to have been convicted. I'm not a lawyer myself, but even with my layman's approach to this case i'd have beaten the prosecution side to dust.

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Anyway, i'm highly surprised that Cutter was allowed to testify at all. He has a history of violent behavior against Borden and Fallon, when Angier and he basically buried Fallon alive.
*Written* history?

__________________________________
Oh my god! They killed Angier!
YOU BASTARDS!!!

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Well, Fallon's alive and free, Cutter's alive and under oath. Just ask him whether it's true that he was intentionally attempting to murder Fallon by burying him alive. The rest is technical.

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Cutter didn't know how the trick works. He didn't construct the machine. He was explicitly forbidden by Angier to go offstage for the Transported Man trick ("I don't want you backstage on this one."). He never saw the trick from the position different from a regular viewer's one. So he has no knowledge whatsoever, he only has assumptions.
Cutter knows that Angier had always believed that Borden had a means to really perform teleportation, and that Angier believed Tesla was the key to it. So when an elated Angier returns from America with a machine built by Tesla that does "something", and performs a teleportation in front of him and Ackermann, and Angier doesn't deny that it's "real magic", it's of course natural for Cutter to believe that the machine is a working teleporter. Which is actually true. So Cutter doesn't really have a reason to believe that he doesn't know how Angier's trick worked.

Cutter had also no reason to suspect that some Angier duplicate was playing a trick on him and everybody else.

The act of perjury occurs when Cutter starts passing his assumptions for facts. He never clearly stated that he has no first-hand experience with the machine, nor had he seen it in action up close. He omitted an important fact that for this specific trick he was never allowed into the "restricted area", which might be the only reason why he's not aware of the role of the watertank.
No, that's not perjury.

Moreover, you're reasoning from the luxury of having full knowledge of exactly what had been going on during the whole movie. Cutter, the court and the defending party didn't have that luxury at that time. They had to decide for themselves which aspects were relevant and which were not. Again, Cutter had no reason to suspect that some Angier duplicate was playing a trick on him and everybody else. As far as Cutter knew, the watertank was used for the Watertank Escape that Angier performed earlier that night, and the real lock was not supposed to be on the watertank. Those are what Cutter considered the important facts, and he told the judge about it.

Should Cutter also have voluntarily divulged to the court that he suspected that Borden has a twin brother who possibly helped killing Angier? Or would you only have said so if the end of the movie had shown that Tesla had fixed the shortcomings of his teleporter machine, that Angier was really dead, that Caldlow was just some unrelated lordship, and that the non-jailed Borden brother had placed the watertank underneath the trapdoor?

Still, he claims to possess the trick's secret, to the point that he knows how to sell it on.
No, he says he holds the rights to sell it on. Which is probably true (it may have been stated in Angier's will/testament).

Do the current right-owners of, say, Jimi Hendrix' music recordings know how to play guitar the way Jimi did? No, they probably don't.

I guess it could have been made clearer if Borden wasn't all silent during the trial.
Yes. Borden could have done more to defend his position. That's why I already wrote that Borden probably had a lousy lawyer.

We are let to believe that even Borden from his seat could see that Angier goes down under the stage during the trick.
No, as far as we are shown, Borden merely noticed a trapdoor shutting. He didn't really see that Angier went down. Your post is assuming things that weren't explicitly shown in the movie; if this thread were a legal proceeding in a crime trial, I'd guess that would make your post eligible for a perjury charge too (according to your logic).

Could Cutter explain why it was a part of the trick's mechanics if the machine was indeed real as he claimed to the judge?
Nobody asked that question, hence Cutter wasn't required to explain. As far as we can be certain, only Borden knew that the trapdoor was in use at every performed show. And Borden said nothing at his trial. Moreover, who knows, maybe Angier employed a trapdoor as merely a red herring, in order to "give them enough reason to doubt it!"

And where's the props under the stage to break Angier's fall if the trapdoor is used?
Those props may be lying around in the theatre's basement, since probably every theatre that has a stage with a trapdoor will have those props and equipment lying around. Borden has shown earlier, when he sabotaged the Angier-&-Root performance, that he knows how to make the props to break Angier's fall vanish from their spot.

Too many questions which the witness who claims to bear the full knowledge of the trick simply can't answer.
Cutter is only required to answer the questions that the court-members are asking.

Anyway, i'm highly surprised that Cutter was allowed to testify at all. He has a history of violent behavior against Borden and Fallon, when Angier and he basically buried Fallon alive. So now we could assume that Cutter has a clear motif to see Borden dead as well, so his testimony might have been intentionally false and could not be the only ground for conviction.
And the court was aware of this... how?

If Fallon was called to testify, he would have to lie. First he would have to lie while taking the oath that his name is Bernard Fallon. Secondly, the Fallon who was buried was not the Borden who survived at the end of the movie. Now that would be perjury.

Seriously, there's no plausible reason for Borden to have been convicted. I'm not a lawyer myself, but even with my layman's approach to this case i'd have beaten the prosecution side to dust.
You're missing one of the central themes of the movie, which is how far the Bordens were willing to go to protect their secret. Because, "as soon as you give it up, you'll be nothing to them."

Borden did almost nothing to help his case and get himself exonerated. It seemed that, although he didn't cause Angier's death, he was struggling with himself and felt guilty for all the misery that he and his brother and family were enduring, and maybe he also felt guilty for the rivalry with Angier. He felt he should have left Angier alone, and that he's now paying the price (now that Angier is dead). It seems that to Borden in jail, overcoming his obsessive rivalry with Angier was the most important thing now, and the way to achieve that was to seek redemption rather than winning the trial. So in a sense, he chooses to die. That way, at least one of them (his brother) could start living a full life now.


______
Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
http://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0

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4) Sentencing Borden to death without even trying the machine that was used for the trick is basically the judge channeling the prosecution's position. They must have undertaken an investigative experiment of sort to prove that Angier's death was a result of Borden's intent and not some accident which he was just unlucky to witness.
Cutter had testified to the judge that the machine was a working teleporter. As far as the court is concerned, the teleporter wasn't relevant because Angier apparently wasn't teleported towards the balcony. Even if the teleporter malfunctioned that night, it doesn't change the fact that obviously someone intentionally placed the watertank underneath the trapdoor and changed the trick lock on it for a real lock.

Nobody had any suspicion ever (nor had anyone ever any reason to suspect) that the machine might be a duplicator; it simply didn't cross anyone's mind. So the question to them was not "Did the teleporter work or fail?" but rather "Who was behind the malicious intent?" Hence the court would have seen no use in trying the machine in an experiment because they merely expected it to prove that it would teleport stuff. (Trying the machine in an experiment might have been considered too costly and too dangerous, because it required a lot of electrical energy and nobody probably knew how to set it up and how to operate it, let alone safely, and the instructions might have been "lost".)


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Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
http://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0

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Ridiculously wreckless spoiler title on your post, OP. Try to be a more mindful IMDb citizen.

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Ridiculously wreckless spoiler title on your post, OP. Try to be a more mindful IMDb citizen.

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It's not a spoiler; Borden is on trail accused of killing Angier in the very beginning of the film...

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Ridiculously wreckless spoiler title on your post, OP. Try to be a more mindful IMDb citizen.


It's a 10 year old movie. Don't click on the messageboards of a movie you haven't seen.

Let's be bad guys.

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Learn to read before you post useless comments............

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