MovieChat Forums > The Tudors (2007) Discussion > New watcher and sort of horrified

New watcher and sort of horrified


I started watching this show last week and finished the finale of season 2 just now. I'm a bit horrified at the last two episodes. King Henry (in this show) acts like a spoiled brat who does not care how many lives he destroys! And it seems to me, that he does it on a whim and usually for a female. All the people he ostracized to be with Anne. Catherine, his daughter, the church...then once he gets Anne he throws her away along with their daughter! Cardinals die or kill themselves, he condemns a friend to die. Yes, people used him and manipulated him to get ahead (Anne's family for example) but King Henry is nowhere near innocent. The last two episodes were very brutal and hard to watch. They seemed quite unfair. England has now seen him kill a Queen and exile one. How could Jane think she is safe from him????

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Yes exactly! Although the show didn't go into it, Henry claimed that God spoke to him. Therefor, he could justify ANYTHING and EVERYTHING he wanted to do.

Isn't it a great show? Hope you're enjoying it.

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I just had the third season come in the mail!!! I'm about to start it. Is it bad I want the King to suffer? I guess I'm guilty of treason!!

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Yay! Season 3 is very good. Still, you may find yourself missing Natalie Dormer as I did. Wasn't she great? Anne's execution is heartbreaking. 

You are SO guilty! Don't worry, I won't tell. He does suffer, though. Especially in season 4. If that makes you happy. 

Anyway, come back with thoughts, okay?

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I don't know how I feel about Anne. There was something icky and insincere about her but I feel like she was one of the more "honest" characters. I do think she had feelings for the King. I find it interesting that while the King was pursuing her, she was able to make the bald comments. He didn't care one bit because he was completely infatuated and because she, with the help of others, gave him the means to throw Catherine away. On that same token, he showed he liked her voracity but that it was unacceptable once she became his possession. Once he 'legally' obtained her, her baldness was no longer intoxicating but irritating. He loved her then but why not now? She knew that the challenge of getting her was more appealing than having her. I feel bad for her. How horrible it must be to watch people you had, who were legitimately there for her, be killed because the King tired of her. And to have your own execution postponed repeatedly....

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You sympathize with her, then. So do I. Michael Hirst made the young Anne a bit devious (how can one as a writer resist the temptation?), and then toward the end, sympathetic. Natalie played her so well. She's on Game of Thrones now. I love her. Have you seen other Anne Boleyn performances?

lol History is unsure how to view Anne. Was she handled by her father and uncle to raise their family's status? A victim of circumstance and manipulation?

Did she have aspirations of pulling the queen's throne out from under her? Plots that she put into motion herself? Too clever for her own good?

Was she promiscuous? An adulteress? Incestuous?

Anne Boleyn will forever be fascinating, polarizing. Because her life is mostly a mystery. We know how she died, but how did she live? A prayer book of hers has survived in which she wrote in French, "The time will come. I, Anne Boleyn." This can be interpreted in many ways. Copies of love letters from Henry to Anne survive, but no responses from her have been found. There's Ambassador Chapuys' letters and such, but those are certainly biased.

So what can we do but wonder? She's an endless source of speculation, controversy, and, in my case, admiration and affection. I'm of the belief that she got a raw deal. Bigtime! lol

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I agree with you that she is completely enigmatic and a breathe of fresh air in a 'drone' society. I give her kudos for going after what she wanted and demanding respect from her hubris filled husband (that pouty child)...
I find Jane boring and I'm only on the second episode. She doesn't keep my interest and I find myself cringing with her 'purity' versus on the edge of my seat breathless with Anne. Even Catherine was pure but filled with a fire. Again, it has only been a few episodes. Maybe to the King after Anne's tempestuousness, Jane's submissiveness is enchanting. I think he will tire of her.
I have never really been interested in history, I find the subject wholly subjective to authors while I enjoy facts, so this was my first experience with Anne. I am enjoying the show though. I find it engaging and am glad that I have all the seasons at my disposal. I also am intrigued by the cattiness of the Catholic church and it's followers. The way they (church and England) handle controversies is interesting to watch along with the 'logic' of torturing to obtain the 'truth'.
I have not seen Game of Thrones although I know it has a lot of followers.

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I find Jane boring and I'm only on the second episode. She doesn't keep my interest and I find myself cringing with her 'purity' versus on the edge of my seat breathless with Anne. Even Catherine was pure but filled with a fire. Again, it has only been a few episodes. Maybe to the King after Anne's tempestuousness, Jane's submissiveness is enchanting. I think he will tire of her.


I found Jane Seymour extremely boring as well, although I wasn't exactly rooting for her demise either. Anne Boleyn wasn't my favorite of Henry's wives but I liked most about her was that out of all of his wives she was the only one who really "talked back" to him, you know? Of all his wives I think she was the only one who openly called him out on his BS and childish, bratty mannerisms.

I can't remember which episode the quote is from but Anne was accurate when she said of Henry: "What the king gives, he can take away, and what he takes away he can give right back!" (I'm paraphrasing) But during the series the rest of Henry's wives were too fearful or timid to speak ill of Henry, even when he was clearly mistreating them.

Jane definitely wasn't anything special and to me the most boring (in the series at least) of Henry's wives. But I noticed that almost every time Henry pursued a new potential wife, he went after a woman who was as different from the previous queen as possible. KoA was very pious and virtuous and when he got tired of her he went about AB who was more headstrong and flirty. When he got rid of her he went for JS who was all pure and demure. Granted he was never really attracted to AoC so after he broke that off he went for a silly little girl who had been corrupted by sex at an early age, and then when that went badly he went after a woman who was mature and well-read.

I know they're playing fast and loose with the facts on this show and that it's not all 100% historically accurate but based on his portrayal on this show, Henry VIII was a temperamental man-child, extremely vain and insecure and too quick to dispose of people he claimed he loved once he couldn't get his way.

Very good show though ^_^

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And where is her uncle? Her dad ran off and her brother was executed but the uncle came out somehow unscathed?

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That's right! Thomas Boleyn skulked away only to die poor and miserable about 3 years later. And the Duke of Norfolk was still around, but you've seen the last of him on this show. But yes, he came out smelling like the proverbial Tudor rose. He continued to serve King Henry for about another 10 years.

I also knew nothing of this period in history until this show. I hope you avoid the obsession, as I was unable to. 

It'll be interesting if your interest in the Tudor period grows and you look for other shows and movies and docudramas to enjoy. There are lots! Then you can let me know how other actors compare to Natalie Dormer and who's performance you liked best, etc. Fun! Maybe you'll let me know what else I might recommend.

So that means you do not as of yet know Queen Jane's fate? I won't spoil it for you. This is exciting! You're learning history through The Tudors just as I did! lol Then you'll find out that certain events did not go down the way this show depicts. And there are quite a few.

Anyway, I hope you don't let that spoil your enjoyment of the show. I didn't.

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My problem is that when I watch a show like this I tend to google to know a bit more. Sadly I saw the rhyme about his wives, I believe Jane dies from childbirth? I tried not to read but it's so hard! I recognized the symbolism between the swans and all the pictures of Henry with his hand around Anne's neck. I think there's an automatic premonition that things will come to an end badly for her. What other shows/movie do you recommend for Anne watching?

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The same sort of thing happened to me, too! I couldn't help but look things up and read stuff I wish I didn't. No worries, though. Not too big of a deal.

There are quite a few movies that focus on the reign of Henry VIII, but as far as centering specifically on Anne Boleyn, a good place to start, once you're done with The Tudors of course, is Anne of the Thousand Days from 1969.

The made for tv movie 2003's The Other Boleyn Girl (which is better IMHO than the 2008 Natalie Portman/Scarlett Johansson movie) based on Philippa Gregory's novel. That one is interesting because it focuses more on Anne's sister Mary.

If you like to read, Philppa Gregory does a whole historical fiction series on the Tudor period.

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Thank you.

I might be dense, but if the King and his loyal subjects are opposed to the church and are continuously destroying idols and the like, why are the condemned to die allowed a priest to hear their confession? It's nice to have a knowledgeable person to talk with, thanks!

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There are others here who know more than me. Especially when it comes to the religious stuff.  But, as far as I know, the basic principles of Christianity are okay. It's just violating certain undesirable aspects of the religion that earn you a chopped-off head or a burning at the stake.

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I guess keeping it vague suits the King's fickle heart....

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And if you thought he could do whatever he wanted before, just wait. 

It's good to be king!

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Oh lordy...

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Anglicans have priests that hear confession just like Catholics. ;)

Henry's Church was "Catholic + ME BEING IN CHARGE." He never did embrace Reform beyond what it got him -- freedom to do as he pleased.

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I finished the series days ago. I want it to continue... I'm bummed I didn't see him die. I wonder why they didn't continue to show the reign of his children. I do believe Anne B. was my favorite. I want more.....

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I felt the same way. I didn't realize until it was over just how much I loved this show. It left a hole. Watching The White Queen helped, though. I don't recall if you've seen that one...

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I have not. Sadly, I'm still missing the show.... I think the AB bug bit me as it did you. I looked at the books you recommended (Phillipa) but it seems as though they aren't 'historically accurate'. I don't know if I want to read that. Hmmmmm....

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Hi!

Those novels are meant purely for entertainment. Historical fiction. And I was entertained.

I've read so many novels about the Tudor era and King Henry's court that I can't remember them all. Hilary Mantel's Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies comes to mind. But one thing I can tell you. Whenever I read the words written for Anne Boleyn, I hear Natalie Dormer's voice. I picture Natalie Dormer's face. So, in a way, it sort of helps if you're having Natalie-as-Anne-Boleyn withdrawals. 

But if you're not into the historical fiction genre, there are plenty of Anne Boleyn biographies to devour.

Go get your Anne Boleyn on, girl!

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lol, thanks Eyeguy72!

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True.

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He never did embrace Reform beyond what it got him -- freedom to do as he pleased.


It also got him the vast wealth formerly controlled by the Catholic Church.

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The king himself wasnt opposed to the church and its ideals, only that they wouldnt give him ultimate power. The way that he founded the church of england was almost identical to the catholic church, he was just the head of it.

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What baldness? Do you mean boldness/

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Yes exactly! Although the show didn't go into it, Henry claimed that God spoke to him. Therefor, he could justify ANYTHING and EVERYTHING he wanted to do.


Unfortunately human beings have caught on to the fact that if they simply claim that God has spoken to them personally, they can pretty much justify doing any kind of horrible act.

I love the performances on this show, I think this is the first time I've ever watched a series where the main protagonist is also the main villain.

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Just finished season two and the Queen Anne death scene in episode 10 was amazing. The delays were excruciating her speech left you drained. Kudos to Natalie Dormer! Yes, Henry is a complete dick.

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