Primary reason why homosexuality is 'unatural'.

[deleted]

jedp2, i think you just provided a ton of examples of why even heterosexual love isn't natural either. Thank you for giving us even more reasons to disregard this "homosexuality is bad because it is unnatural" argument.

ad hominem that

_
Be a loyal Bushie...
Or the Vice President will shoot you in the face

About gay being unnatural:

First and foremost, nothing in nature is unnatural, that is bogus argument to begin with and just one of the “catch phrases” used by bigots and homophobes to infer that same sex love is a bad or wrong thing.

Homosexuality is a minority sexual orientation comprising typically between 2% and 15% of any given population at any given time (regardless of religious belief).

This pervasive prejudice against homosexuality was a product of a pre-Christian Jewish taboo and scholars have suggested that it was TABOO because it did not lead to procreation and children (all sexual acts which did not lead to procreation were considered taboo in Jewish laws). It is inferred that the need for children (and future warriors) was to add to the tribe’s strength against its larger hostile neighbors.

At the exact same time this prejudice existed in the Jewish tribes homosexuality was acceptable to both the Greek and Roman cultures (both cultures being considerably more sophisticated and culturally advanced than the nomadic tribes of Judea)!

Jews transformed into the early Christians and carried all of the prejudices and taboos that were in the old laws of Judaism (Old Testament).

The Roman Empire was eventually overtaken by the Christian religion (early 4th century). It can be argued that this was, at least in part, one of the reasons for the eventual fall of the Empire, since Christian (who at the time believed the Jesus was coming BACK in a matter of weeks or even days) believed they had no reason to concern themselves with earthly things like culture, the cohesion of the empire, and /or fighting off invaders from the east.

The Holy Roman Empire fell into the dark ages where the monks and the wealthy were the only one able to read, and in addition the monks were the only ones keeping copies of all manuscripts (that they elected to keep)! (We literally have no idea how much was lost because of prejudice or fears that certain manuscripts went against church doctrine)!!!

One of the first events that broke through the dark ages was the Magna Carta, which was the first document in post Christ civilization to suggest that individuals were free entities and not just the property of either the church or the landowners!

Guttenberg’s printing press finally allowed common person access to books and the saving of books fell away form the control of the church and this ushered in the renaissance (which I believe we are still a part of).

For the first time in 1500 years everything was being challenged, from science to church dogma. The examination of Catholic dogma sparked the Protestant revolution which eventually gave the world all these different flavors of Christianity each with a different set of dogma and scriptural interpretations.
The discovery of American and the prospect of a land where the CHURCH (typically this meant the Roman Catholic Church) did NOT have a stronghold on was a further push in this theocratic revolution!

America’s experiments of fostering individual freedom, promoting a democracy and establishing a republic had not been tried since the time of the ancient Greeks (most governments in Europe where either Monarchies or theocracies or a horrible combination of both, example, England under Henry the eighth)!

Our forefathers were very careful in framing the boundaries of this new republic to prevent one set of religious belief from overpowering all other and forcing this new republic into a theocracy! Men like John Adams wrote extensively about the danger he saw specifically in Christians proselytized and made sure that the constitution made it clear that religion and government were to be separated always!

>>>>>>
As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?
-- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816
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And yes, to our forefather like John Adams the thought of homosexuals having rights would have been shocking BUT so would the concept of blacks being equal to white or women being equal to men (all of these prejudices including support for SLAVERY are a part of the Judea-Christian legacy in John Adams time).

In the beginning of the 20th century when the new science of psychology was being formed most of the men involved carried these prejudices over into their research and studies. Hence the prejudice continued. (In much the same ways as medicine and science in the 19th century supported the concept of white supremacy and found plenty of “facts” to back up that prejudicial belief – repeated again under the Nazis).

The late1930s thru the1940s saw the rise of the Nazis Government in Germany along with their brand of human eugenic and racial purity. What they did still stands as a reminder of how easily a culture can be influence to believe a complete fabrication about a minority and how much a culture can be brainwashed to follow even the most disturbing beliefs to their horrifying conclusions!

Hitler’s followers killed million of Jews, gypsies, political opponents and YES homosexuals! When the Nazis were eventually defeated, those poor souls who had withstood his drastic final solution were all set free… except for homosexuals, who because of laws on the books were put back into jail! Again, keep in mind that the only crime these men and women committed was with whom they were sexual attracted, no act or other tangible offense was committed!

The black struggle in American has raged from before the end of slavery to modern day. Those that opposed the equality of blacks over the years have been replaced by a culture that understands the nature of this prejudice and is doing much to eradicate it (though as we see from white supremacists and other racial hate group there is still much to do). At least NOW the majority of the American culture sees the true evil of racial prejudice.

Along with the racial strife American has faced up to some of its demon about gender, finally giving women equality to vote in 1920.

But Sexism and racism are still a part of our make up!

In the 1950s for the first time in this country, America citizens who were gay and lesbian began to say “We want equality and want our proper place at the table.”

Up until this point gays and lesbians were jailed, electro shocked, analyzed, institutionalized, but never just allowed to be. In the late 50s two important scientific studies began to debunk the centuries old myths about gay people, including that anywhere between 2 and 15% of the American population is predominantly gay (we won’t even get into the segment that has had homosexual experience past puberty on one or more occasions)!!!

The two scientific studies were the Kinsey Report and the Report by Evelyn Hooker which concluded that homosexuals were not maladjusted at least not any more then their heterosexual counterparts.

Gay began to organized and get active to change laws in the late 60s! Soon people of good conscience and intelligent began to see how unfairly this segment of American had been treated. Equality started to expand to include gays and lesbians.

The religious nuts, who had always tried to wrestled control of this country, were outraged. They had lost their battle to keep slavery, had lost their “right” to keep blacks and women in their places, so they were not willing to let go of the prejudice against gays! Keep in mind that religious people have used scriptural quotes from the bible to prove all their prejudicial belief concerning blacks, women, gays, foreigners, slavery etc.


In the 1970s upstanding religious bigots like Jerry Falwell began building organization like “the moral majority” to fight any advancement gays might make. Falwell, though he wanted to keep this pretty quiet, had been a mover and shaker in the religious movement for separation of the races. He often used scripture to prove how important it was (and I heard him say these words myself when I was just a kid) to keep the white bird apart from the black bird! (???) Since he had lost that war, he devoted himself to fighting the GAY demons!

Gay men and women made great progress over the 70 and early 80s but the onset of HIV was a major blow to the gay men’s community.

Well let it not be said that the religious predators would miss an opportunity to go for the throat of its sworn enemy!

In churches all over this country RELIGIOUS leader were praising HIV and its devastation of the gay community, calling it the wrath of God. Ultimately, this backfired on them big time (think Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church). Many fair minded Americans were outraged that people who were professing to be god’s representatives here on earth were being so callused and heartless.

But like the Phoenix rising out of the ashes, the gay community rallied itself. Each year of the tragedy saw more people die but it also saw more people come out and stand up! Everyone began to know someone who was gay, and the prejudiced began to look just like what it really is, lies perpetrated on a minority.

In the 90s several amazing things occurred, the Supreme Court finally saw that to hold gay criminally accountable for sexual activities that ALL Americans engaged in was both unfair and un-American. The sodomy laws (again based on RELIGION, not on humanity) were tossed out, and for the first time in American history gay men and women were no longer criminals in the eyes of their country.

Even more amazing, several states were actually considering giving committed gay couple the same equality as heterosexual couple and allow them to legally marry.

But the BIGOTS would not have it!

They started the spin machines running. Allowing gays to marry would somehow, mysteriously, destroy heterosexual marriage (which was at an all time health point with a 50% divorce rate)! Again, as in Nazi Germany, a minority was being used as a scapegoat. Hitler said that Jews were spreading venereal disease across Europe. Religious bigots here made the same claims about gay with HIV. Neither of these beliefs were or are true! But it allowed these fanatics to get a stronghold.

All over this nation, religious bigots persuaded their brainwashed followers to installed JIM CROW type laws against gays and lesbians, denying them marriage equality. In some cases denying them any chance to get the protections that are so easily obtains with a simple marriage certificate.


Some other myth about gays:

Gays can’t reproduce!
Of course they can, they will just do it with planning and a turkey baster!

Gays are immoral!
After hearing the representatives of GOD on earth lie thru their teeth, I’ll trust a gay person before I would trust the likes of Pat Robertson or his ilk.

Gays are pedophiles (or as bad as pedophiles)!
All the evidence point to about 90% of all pedophile not only being male and heterosexually inclined BUT in most cases is a family member or close friend of the family (ouch, sucks to be a straight father, brother, uncle, cousin or close family friend)!

Gays sex is sex between two adults who can make an informed consent!

Allowing gays to marry will open the door to polygamy and incest marriages.
NO, no one is suggesting either of these things but again, they are “catch phrases and words” which excite a base of followers (like dogs going after a doggie treat).

Incest can lead to birth deformities.

Polygamy is actually legal in many countries so I really don’t see any reason not to allow it. If an Arabic man who has 4 legal wives moves to American must he drop three of his wives? My only complaint is that it’s a sexist accommodation and only men seem able to have multiple marriage partners!

Please keep in mind that none of the accusations used against gay and lesbian people are new. They are all recycled hate speech often used to justify Racism and Anti-Semitism and other forms of xenophobia!



GOD, PLEASE SAVE ME FROM YOUR FOLLOWERS!!!

I believe that there are a lot of "unnatural" things that happen to people. By the TC standards he could be saying that people who are born with mental handicaps are "unnatural", or maybe we should tell siamese twins to start acting natural because god would never want them to be the way they are. Perhaps people with two different color eyes are "unnatural", or maybe its left handed people.
My point is that there is no perfect way a person should be and just because you are not gay or don't understand homosexuality don't judge someone who is. Sexuality is a just another part of humans that is unique to each individual, and it is and probably will remain a much smaller percentage of the population but don't try and and say that its "unnatural" when nature itself creates so many strange, unique, unexplainable, and wonderful things. At least that is my opinion.

You make statements that just are not supported but any legitimate organizations:

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gay couple are hurting their children by having them grow up with two mothers or two fathers

most believe that a child needs a father and a mother

Even in a broken home, the father and mother should be there for the kids
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Plenty of dysfunctional and terrible human being have grown up in traditional families. And Plenty of functional and terrific human being had grown un in unconventional families.

"there is a considerable body of professional literature that suggests children with parents who are homosexual have the same advantages and the same expectations for health, adjustment and development as children whose parents are heterosexual." American Academy of Pediatricians


"Children growing up in same-sex parental households do not necessarily have differences in self-esteem, gender identity, or emotional problems from children growing up in heterosexual parent homes” says Ellen C. Perrin, MD, professor of pediatrics at Tufts University School of Medicine in Boston. She revealed the findings at the American Academy of Pediatrics Conference and Exhibition. "


Please stop spewing nonsense out of the same orifice that your crap comes out of!



GOD, PLEASE SAVE ME FROM YOUR FOLLOWERS!!!

>> What does being over-populated have to do with what is natural and what is not? <<

It has been suggested that homosexuality is much more prevelent during times of overpopulation (by both scientist and biologist). Hence a natural response to overpopulation.