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The battle of "The Long Night" and Theon's death?

posted 5 years ago by Birdmant7 (202)
19 replies | jump to latest

Last night's episode and the long awaited battle with the White walkers started out kind of good but then it became too dark to watch in most parts. Some of the scenes also ran too long; it just did not seem as cohesive or well executed in direction compare to the "Battle of the bastards"; even though it was the same director who did both. The worst scene that kind of didn't make sense to me was how Theon died by marching towards the Night King; instead of waiting for him to get closer; knowing he was outnumbered by the other Walkers walking with the night King. I am guessing Theon did that as a way of guilt and shame to kind of give his life for Bran for the things he had done as redemption; however that scene could have been shot with Theon actually fighting the Night King and dying than the way he ran to his death, his purpose was to protect Bran, for him to run towards your opponent gives your enemy even more advantage to use your force against you and Theon knew he was not fighting a real living being; this was the leader that controlled the all of the walkers, that scene to me was just lame in slow motion and music didn't work. The Dragon scenes with Jon and Danny were also confusing and hard to even watch; the scene with Arya in the castle went on too long, it was like watching night of the living dead. Overall it was a decent and long episode but it was all over the place in the dark.

[–] winslow (1318) 5 years ago

Theon knew he was about to die. By running like that, he was going out on his own terms instead of waiting for the walkers to make their move.

[–] Birdmant7 (202) 5 years ago

Yes I got that, that's why I said he did that out of shame/guilt maybe, it was an emotional move? but it didn't work in the story and setting of what his purpose was to protect Bran, he was going to die either way but why speed it up "on his own terms " when he was shooting off arrows, he didn't think about on his own terms then but when the worst of them (Night king) showed up that Bran needed more protection then Theon went kamikaze, leaving Bran even more open?. If you listened to the commentary of the producers, they changed some of the parts of the story, for example they chose Arya over Jon killing the Night King, which again that was surprising so this is why I think they have changed that scene too; regardless of Theon was always being weak and emotional but he rescued his sister and he fought bravely, he was the last to protect Bran too and to walk away regardless of his own terms was a dumb move.

[–] winslow (1318) 5 years ago

Bran pretty much gave him permission by thanking him for his service, and telling him he's a good man.

[–] Sandman81 (1505) 5 years ago

Theon knew he was dead. The best thing he could do to help Bran at that point would be to keep the Night King as far away from Bran as possible for as long as possible. If he waited for the Night King to approach, then by the time Theon was killed, TNK would already be standing next to Bran and Arya would not have had time to save the day. By charging at him, he kept him away from Bran for longer, which bought more time for help.

[–] Kingswood (1241) 5 years ago

At least they didn't have him pull a Lyanna Mormont and the zombie giant moment, and get the most unexpected redemption kill of the millennia.

[–] mcqueen (1150) 5 years ago

or he could have just waited 3 more seconds, and stayed alive

[–] chrisjdel (2714) 5 years ago

For some strange reason he didn't recognize Arya standing there. 😀

[–] dmac8 (5050) 5 years ago

she had not yet arrived

[–] chrisjdel (2714) 5 years ago

Do we know exactly when she arrived? Except for the fact that she probably would've moved on the Night King before he could kill Theon, she looked like a white walker. We never actually saw her approach the group.

[–] dmac8 (5050) 5 years ago

we saw the breeze she left in her wake

[–] dmac8 (5050) 5 years ago

It's about the symbolism, not the logic. Theon ran towards the scariest of threats rather than running away as he had in the past. Step by step, he made his way from one end of the spectrum to the other. Bran's acknowledgment triggered this final act: to be a warrior who charges despite certain death. That's why it was played up so dramatically with slo-mo. We had never seen that Theon before. Get it?

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Yes, and I'm pleased to see you get it too.

[–] Birdmant7 (202) 5 years ago

You know its interesting we can all watch the same thing and either agree with it or question it, but every time I post something here about questioning either casting or a scene most people come to only prove I am wrong or they are brain washed into thinking a show of this size could not make a mistake by one scene or cast the wrong actor? we just have to follow like the heard of sheep and say that's why theon charged "s despite certain death". Again, I knew Theon will die in this scene, it was the way it was shot, that was my issue with it. There was two other characters who also died saving other people Beric Dondarrion" for Arya and Jorah Mormont for Dany, but those scene worked, especially the scene with Beric, and Theon was could have been in a fight with the Night King and got stabbed then Arya show up in the midst of it would have been more compelling, instead that long walk to Bran and Night King gazing at him, that long pause for what?. I even had a hard time watching Arya not get her neck snapped and still drop the dagger and have the breath to even move in that position and her size?

You can either watch something without thinking and be a FANBOY or watch it and question it; but OMG it seems like hardly anyone here is even willing to consider it ? The issue to me was the way it was shot and it didn't work, but everyone wants to bring the reason why Theon did that way, you are missing my point is the direction was wrong along with millions who also complaint the whole episode was DARK to watch, but lets find a way to justify that error was also done for a reason...Lol
So yes I "get it" but I don't agree with it.

[–] dmac8 (5050) 5 years ago

This is the first reply I've given you regarding GOT, and I've been criticized more often than not here for being too hard on the show, so I'm hardly a "FANBOY". I'm not a fanboy of any show. Take that stuff up with them. And what I said of Theon isn't what others were saying to defend the scene. Theon's death wasn't the question, why he'd be running towards the threat rather than hanging back to defend Bran is what you pointed out, as though logic rules a tv show like this rather than stylization and suspension of disbelief. When you bring up things like a strategic advantage, clearly you didn't pick up on the artistic choice to contrast this charging with his prior fleeing. If you did, but still had other issues with it, that would be different -- but you didn't. And I didn't say one word about the darkness -- so no need to bring up that Strawman with me.

[–] EloraWood (158) 5 years ago

Not just what dmac8 said, but I think he had to run to the Night King (I know you are talking about logic and how it was shot...maybe we misunderstood you, but here was my understanding of the situation).
- Bran stoped him apologizing and told him that all of it led him to be where he needed to be, right there in this moment
- everything he went through made him feel like he, as others pointed out, could go out on his own terms
- doing that he gave Arya the chance to kill the Night King... because if he had waited, or fought (pointless anyway) the Night King would have not stood where he did when Arya launched herself from wherever she did... he bought time - so I guess that was needed.
About camera shots, music, lighting etc - well that’s out for whatever someone prefers. You didn’t like it, fair enough - others did. Doesn’t mean anyone is wrong. You have a right not to like it, but calling people “Fanboys” just because they did doesn’t make you sound particularly “logical” or smart either - so what’s the point.
This is a discussion board - so let people discuss 😉

[–] keithmovies (627) 5 years ago

Theon had decided he was no longer able to defend Bran once the Night King showed up.

He wanted the opportunity to strike at the Night King as he was the threat. He nodded at the Night King who nodded back in acknowledgement then Theon charged at him and was impaled and killed by the Night King.

Theon could have waited for the Night king to come closer but the result would have been the same. At this point the main attack had ended wherein the two military forces were trying to kill each other to bring defeat. The Night King had definitively "won" in his own eyes so was now contemplating his "prize" of destroying Bran which he was about to do but was in no rush. He was ambushed by Arya at the last second and killed.

The difference between Theon and Jon is that the Night King knew he could be in jeopardy if he allowed Jon to attack him personally armed with a Valyrian steel sword, whereas Theon was completely ordinary and there was an understanding he wanted to die a warrior's death which was something the Night King could accommodate at that point having brought the Winterfell army to its knees.

[–] Birdmant7 (202) 5 years ago

"It's about the symbolism, not the logic. Theon ran towards the scariest of threats rather than running away as he had in the past."
I think this part of your explanation is actually very logical; given Theon's past, so I agree and point well taken. I just think even if the two had met half way where Theon actually maybe fought the night king; then once he got stabbed Arya's intervention would have been more suited; compare to the long walk towards Bran with the long gaze scene between the him and Bran; which again didn't make sense to me? why would someone like the night King who would take his time killing Bran, was he contemplating his action?...was he feeling sorry to kill a cripple ?... I understand your reasoning in why Theon did what he did based on symbolism, but that scene was just disjointed in the grammar of the rest of the episode.

[–] dmac8 (5050) 5 years ago

Again, it's not about logic. The show is swiss cheese when you compare it to what would occur if this had all been real. But things are stylized and played to a heightened dramatic effect. Arya cant fly through the air. Theon and his small crew can't fight off (what should be swarms of) walkers with bows and arrows. Jon wouldn't expose himself to a dragon just to scream at it. People don't move in slow motion or pause with dramatic musical accompaniment. And you wouldn't hide in a crypt or take this bizarre Alamo approach to deal with the end of the world. But in a fantasy drama of this ilk, you accept all those things. It's a show, not a fly on the wall documentary. And I don't think you can show Theon as someone who could give the Night King a fight. The point is that he's no match, not really some skilled fighter, but goes at him anyway. It's more a display of courage when they show that he clearly had no chance. Even the way he runs is awkward -- but the point is that he's manning up this time. Thanks for the civil reply.

[–] winslow (1318) 5 years ago

The last 20 minutes or so I look at it like the first 20 minutes of season 6 finale. The score is similar, they both use piano, which is rarely used on the show. Dialogue is minimal, those parts are more about spectacle than anything else.

People complain they don't get answers to their burning questions, but it is really not for an epsode like this to give them. What we've seen in the past is they take that stuff and pack it into another episode, which is probably what they will do here. I think when the show is done, it plays differently watching them back to back instead of waiting a week or 2 years.