MovieChat Forums > Milk (2009) Discussion > What if the Bible DIDN'T condemn homosex...

What if the Bible DIDN'T condemn homosexuality?


Would there be half as many homophobes?

I wish Dylan Thomas was real so I could tell him he's awesome.

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How do you know that the Bible, as originally written, even condemned homosexuality?

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That's not really relevant, though.

The bible they USE, APPEARS to condemn it, and that's all the excuse anybody needs.

I am the sod-off shotgun.

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[deleted]

Then the religious whackjobs would find something else to complain about and blame society's ills on, as they've always managed to do.

"Ninja monkeys are meeting as we speak, plotting my demise."

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Not necessarily. There are many predominantly atheistic countries where homophobia is quite widespread.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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What If the bible was actually real?

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What If the bible was actually real?












Fhuck off, SymmetryOfZero, you frickin' MORON.

Star Trek: Multi-spectral subspace engines
SF Debris: So the shuttle is powered by rainbows?

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Moron foebane72? For believing that the Bible is a work of fiction? Which, as it seems quite evident, it is? Don't be a moron, sugartits. You're making yourself look bad.

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this comment is made of win

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Atheistic countries? um... i don't think there are any atheistic countries. i think every country has a majority of people believing in a god/religion/faith. I'm pretty sure atheists are the minority of the entire planet.

i hope you know that atheist means believing in no god or faith or higher power. i hope you don't think that just because a person is not a Christian or Catholic then that means they're an atheist. That seems to be what a lot of people think atheists are.

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Atheistic countries? um... i don't think there are any atheistic countries. i think every country has a majority of people believing in a god/religion/faith.
Not true. Off the top of my head, there's Japan.

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It's the question that drives us. I know the answer is 42.

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From Wiki:

Upper estimates suggest that 84–96 percent of the Japanese population subscribe to Buddhism or Shinto, including a large number of followers of a syncretism of both religions. However, these estimates are based on people affiliated with a temple, rather than the number of true believers. Other studies have suggested that only 30 percent of the population identify themselves as belonging to a religion.

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If you argue that Buddhism and Shintoism are atheistic, which is a valid argument depending how you dedine theism, then you are correct.



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FYI - I'm not a queer. I'm a straight woman with a boyfriend. Way to assume.

I wish Dylan Thomas was alive so I could tell him he's awesome.

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If the bible was dismissed as the work of fiction that it is, then the elitist mentality of the human race would find another way to discriminate against its members. But I doubt that the world would be as violent and cruel a place if people no longer believed that they were acting on some kind of divine warrant.

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[deleted]

I don't see why a church should be forced to marry a gay couple just because a few potentially biased politicians suddenly make that decision.


I don't know how the laws work in Britain, but that will never happen in the US. Churches will never be forced to perform or sanctify any marriages to which they object... that is merely a lie that anti-gay religious groups like to use for the purposes of scaring people.

I think gays should be allowed to get on with their lives without anybody hassling them.


Thanks.

They should also be allowed to enter into a civil partnership (not marriage - a marriage should require a man and wife)


And do you have a nonreligious reason for that discrimination? Because I've never heard one. If the government is allowed to perform marriages and confer rights based on them (and it is) then those marriages and rights should be available to all consenting legally adult couples. Either we can all enjoy those rights, or the government should only be allowed to confer civil partnerships and marriages can be the province of the church.

but I don't think everybody should be forced to accept that it is right.


Nobody is "forced to accept" anything. You can find things distasteful or object to them personally. Nobody is forcing you to change your opinion. You are welcome to hold whatever bigoted beliefs you choose, but it is certainly unfair to expect the law to reflect your personal prejudice.

We should be allowed our own opinions without being labelled ourselves.


Nonsense. You do not have the right to not be labeled. The only way to avoid that is to have no opinions, or to never express them. And you are more than welcome to maintain your silence on all topics, if that's what you want, but if you choose to express your opinions then everyone has the right to weigh in on them.



I am the sod-off shotgun.

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I believe that homosexuality is a mental illness. I do not base this on the bible and have no interest in the biblical teachings on sexual relations.

Homosexuality is an anxiety disorder where persons of one sex harbor deep rooted fears that prohibit them from enjoying the sexual attraction of the opposite sex.

The basis of same sex attraction comes from the failure of the child to adequately bond with the same sex parent or adequate parental surrogate at an early age (before 48 months) . That leaves the child with an unmet desire that when the child reaches puberty, translates into same sex attraction. This cravomg to be loved by the same sex parent is transferred into adolescent friends and as the libido awakens, is translated to sexual attraction. The need for a hug, a fatherly embrace, some private intimacy, when combined with hormonal releases is sadly directed to members of the same sex as the adolescent acts out his need for parental closeness that he can respect.
With the increased single parent family, same sex attraction(SSA) disorder is on the rise, as one would expect.

The SSA is not evil or immoral. They simply have not properly matured sexually. In a sense, the paedophile is the same with a differenet set of needs. He is neither anymore or less immoral. Only the means he persues to fullfill his needs are. Many homosexuals know(or sense) this and are very sympathic to the paedophile. SSA is also treatable and the success rates among motivated clients is very high. SSA therapists (Not Preachers!!) spend time regressing SSAs to their early years and allowing them to completely integrate their longings for the same sex parent. There is also some chemicals to antagonize the edorphin release that has proved very useful for SSA disorder. After relieving them of their anxieties, SSAs normal and healthy attractions quickly surface. Most clients report that, it is not like their attraction to same sex partners left them but that they became insignificant as their relation to their opposite sex attractions began to dominate their attentions.

To answer your question, I see same sex attraction as a developmental anomaly but strictly on secular terms.

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Wow.

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Ikillen, you seem to have really thought this through. But you are completely wrong. Based on your argument, then all boys raised by single moms would be gay, as well as girls raised by single dads.

All the current medical research contradicts what you claim. The overwhelming evidence is that among humans, just as in the mammal animal kingdom, homosexuality occurs in about 10% of all those who are born. People and other mammals are born gay, or not, or somewhere in between. That's nature.

And evolutionarily, there could certainly be a reason for homosexuality as population control or emotionally.

What nurture can do is make people either feel happy and accepting of who they are--or feel ashamed and angry.

I suggest you do some real reading of legitimate scientific studies on the matter.

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[deleted]

And frankly, grumpyotter, 10% is very old school. When one combines the gay and bisexually-inclined population (regardless of how they publicly identify) it's well above that.


I tried to find a consensus and failed. I've seen everything from 3-5% to 18-20%. So I just went middle of the road.

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"I believe that homosexuality is a mental illness. I do not base this on the bible and have no interest in the biblical teachings on sexual relations.

Homosexuality is an anxiety disorder where persons of one sex harbor deep rooted fears that prohibit them from enjoying the sexual attraction of the opposite sex.

The basis of same sex attraction comes from the failure of the child to adequately bond with the same sex parent or adequate parental surrogate at an early age (before 48 months) . That leaves the child with an unmet desire that when the child reaches puberty, translates into same sex attraction. This cravomg to be loved by the same sex parent is transferred into adolescent friends and as the libido awakens, is translated to sexual attraction. The need for a hug, a fatherly embrace, some private intimacy, when combined with hormonal releases is sadly directed to members of the same sex as the adolescent acts out his need for parental closeness that he can respect.
With the increased single parent family, same sex attraction(SSA) disorder is on the rise, as one would expect. "

The psychologists of the world in general, tend to disagree with you so pardon me for not giving a *beep* about your belief.

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No, there wouldn't. The Bible is mostly just an excuse, and not only that, but as has been said before, The Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality anyway. In that time there was simply no concept of it, and The Bible barely mentions anything remotely like it at all, if at all. The King James translation is notoriously filled with errors.

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Actually, a lot of religious scholars think that Leviticus wasn't actually condemning homosexuality. He stated that when a man lies with another man, it is an abomination, which did not necessarily mean sin. Abomination, back in those days, meant UNCLEAN.

Leviticus ALSO says that to mix fabric is an abomination, eat shellfish, work on the Sabbath, etc. But the Christian right doesn't follow any of the other rules, so why still with the gay thing? Who knows. The fact is the Bible says a lot of things, and not very clearly.

Meow.

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I can't help thinking the gospel writers were all somehow biased,mysogynistic and possibly unreliable narrators.

I don't have Bieber fever. I have Bieber nausea.

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In truth, the bible seems to have a strong bias against male homosexuality. It is very forgiven of loving relations between women.

I actually think there are multiple components ion affect here.
First is penetration. Men penetrate. Penetration is an aggressive act. A woman's body is equipped for penetration by a man. It is called a vagina. A man's body does not support penetration since he lacks a vagina and must provide a substitute orifice such as his anus or mouth. The anus is regarded as especially vile since it's purpose is as far disposed from the role of the vagina as can be. The vagina is designed to accommodate the penis, provide a vehicle for pleasure to result in ejaculation and a channel for the living seeds of life to join with her precious and limited eggs.

The rectum is an organ that stores that which the body wants to rid itself. It is truly the trash-heap of the living organism. It is full or poisons, bacteria and the very things we struggle to relieve ourselves of. We learn from a very young age to be repulsed from any effluent from the anus, be it solid, liquid and most notably gas. That is the very reason we once built our out-houses far from our living quarters. It is the same reason we carry away our feces from our homes. The idea of depositing the very seeds of life into the exhaust tract of another’s body is an anathema to all living entities. The bible is simple annotating a belief that is intrinsic in all. It did not "create the standard" but simply reflect what ALL normal humans know as a child.

Don't blame the Bible. If you are upset at man's rejection of homosexual sex, blame our biology. We are naturally wired that way.

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-Why is the male g-spot located in the anus?

-The rectum fills with blood when a man is aroused, no matter what sexual orientation they are.

-Many straight couples engage in anal sex, and not all gay couples engage in it.

You sound just as ignorant and stupid as the old bag who spoke about the biology of anal sex when testifying against the civil unions bill in Colorado. You claim no religious bias, but your posts indicate otherwise.

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I hate to disappoint you, little fella. I am quite well educated at some of the better schools on the planet. What I refuse to do is repeat the politically correct blather that is taught.

Why is this anything but obvious?? If a blink man picked up a garden hose, he would quickly understand that the male connection attaches to the female one. Men and women are made to join at so many levels. The entire future of the world depends on it!!!!

You can twist around 1 + 1 until it equals 3 but when you count up your marbles, you will still be shorthanded. Reality is what it it. You can pass laws for marriage, strong arm the military for acceptance and carve your misguided bodies to be the sex you want. You will still be miserable because every single cell in your body is living outside of the intended design of the being.

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Why is this anything but obvious?? If a blink man picked up a garden hose, he would quickly understand that the male connection attaches to the female one.


Because there is only one connection, dumbass. When it comes to men and women, there are lots of different ways they can go together.

You will still be miserable


Of course, the millions of perfectly satisfied homosexual men, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered individuals simply scoff at your stupidity. I thought you claimed to be educated at top schools. If so, why are you saying such dumb things?

because every single cell in your body is living outside of the intended design of the being.


Ah, INTELLIGENT DESIGN. I guess you're giving up that idiotic pretense, now, wherein you claimed that your bigotry was NOT motivated by your religion? Because ID is nothing but creationism.


I am the sod-off shotgun.

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Ikillen is obviously a closet homossexual, go easy on him. (He didn't properly matured sexually).

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