MovieChat Forums > Låt den rätte komma in (2008) Discussion > why do people think Oskar's dad is gay? ...

why do people think Oskar's dad is gay? Just curious


I find it interesting and a bit funny that some people thought Oskar's dad was gay. I just want to know what made you think so.
Because I don't find anything in that scene that points to him being gay.

Is it something in the scene? The way he acts? Or talks? Does he say something to his mate that's suspicious?
Or is simply the fact that they are two men alone that triggers peoples mind?
I can't for my life imagine why people would think so.
What made you think so?

I thought it was pretty obvious, at least if you're Swedish that his father is an alcoholic. I even think it's fairly obvious even if you're not Swedish that his father is a heavy drunk.

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I thought there was something other than alcoholism going on but not being gay. It just seemed ominous and secretive when he just appeared inside. It seemed super creepy to me.

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"I thought there was something other than alcoholism going on but not being gay. It just seemed ominous and secretive when he just appeared inside. It seemed super creepy to me." - jidici


That's exactly how I saw it. Janne was really creepy, especially when talking to Oskar. At one point I have considered whether this was a reference to Håkan's paedophilia but soon dropped that idea as it was far too removed from what was happening on screen. And when you think about it slightly differently; paedophilia and alcoholism are yet more ways that society fails to protect the children it is tasked with protecting and nurturing, so I'm not sure whether that could be seen that way or whether I'm reading too much into the scene.

Edit: I know that there was no intent on the Director's part, nor on the screenwriter's part, to suggest anything other than alcoholism, but that doesn't mean people can't see things that weren't intended ie, the cycle theory.

"A bit on the side, but you also have many people that for some reason calls Eli "she" even if they know it is a "he"." - Drakkar


Yeah, I do that. I blame Lina .

I saw the film first and didn't pick up on the gender issue with Eli ... at all. Which is good, as it would have ruined the shocking and excellent reveal in the book.

So for me Eli was initially a girl, and when I picture Eli in my head I see Lina. And I hate reading all the "he/she", "her/him", & "hers/his", but just to write "he", "him", & "his" would confuse people that didn't know about Eli's gender issue. But those that know, wouldn't be phased by reading "she", "her", & "hers". Although they might roll their eyes and think I don't know. But hey, who really cares what people on the internet think of you?

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PS @Drakkar: In English, "A bit on the side" means a married man's mistress, or a married woman's ... er ... toyboy. You could use "On the other hand...", or "As an aside...", or (I use this one a lot) "Also...". Hope this helps.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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PS @Drakkar: In English, "A bit on the side" means a married man's mistress, or a married woman's ... er ... toyboy. You could use "On the other hand...", or "As an aside...", or (I use this one a lot) "Also...". Hope this helps. -jameron
Thanks , I was considering looking it up, but I didn't bother - it is saturday and I am lazy.

Normally I write "he", replacing it with Eli, if I suspect people don't get it. (But then it can get a tad too many "Eli's" in the sentence).

Btw, in the Hultcrantz stage-play, both Eli and Oskar was played by women. It worked as h..., I was deep into the book.

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"Edit: I know that there was no intent on the Director's part, nor on the screenwriter's part, to suggest anything other than alcoholism, but that doesn't mean people can't see things that weren't intended ie, the cycle theory."

I'm not sure I even saw hints of alcoholism. As an American observer, outside the culture, I just thought it was Scandinavian hospitality. Don't blast me...

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I didn't see it either, nor did the director.
There are two alcoholics, neighbours (the slippers), Oskar's father guilt-ridden succumbing to the alcohol.
I guess it is the guilt that does it.
Cultures not familiar with people sitting home drinking may search for other explanations for the behaviour, and with a little bit of homophobia, voilá! Strongly homophobic persons may even see the gay thing anyway.

A bit on the side, but you also have many people that for some reason calls Eli "she" even if they know it is a "he".

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Well, the issue with Eli is complicated. Most things dealing with sexuality and gender are.

But since both Eli and Oskar saw Eli as a girl then she is a girl.

As for Oskar's dad: Again I say I think it's a very Swedish/Scandinavian/Nordic thing. If you come from this area you would immediately see Oskar's dad as an alcoholic.
Of course it's creepy, but not in that way

Aren't we Swedes a bunch of sad people? Drinking alone at home:)
At least other's go to a bar and gets drunk.

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But since both Eli and Oskar saw Eli as a girl then she is a girl. -jajceboy
Only in the beginning. Later on Oskar sees Eli as a boy, and from then on he is a boy. Even if Lina did her best to trick me.

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The novel really makes the point strongly. Eli is referred to as a girl until she stops the LP playing; from that point on, Eli is referenced as a boy.

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"Aren't we Swedes a bunch of sad people? Drinking alone at home:)"

Please believe me: it's hardly isolated to the Swedes!

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I think people think Oskar's dad was gay because the way the sequence was shot made it seem like his dad left his mom for a man.

Just look at the way they look at each other as he walks in the room and how he looks at Oskar. I think it was something they unintentionally got across.

But of course since they show him drinking his ass off right after, it should be obvious he's an alcoholic.

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I just re-watched that scene, and I’m left with the thought that there must be strong cultural differences in Sweden vs America; because as an American viewer, that scene reads as a clear indication of a homosexual relationship—in ways that don’t have anything to do with homophobia.

Here is a quick rundown of the clues observed:

1) The neighbor walks right in to the house without knocking (which would only happen in America if a person practically lived at the home). That signals a very intimate relationship.

2) The neighbor then seems surprised to see Oskar and gives a fake knock on the wall (as if to try to cover-up that he practically ‘lives’ with Oskar’s dad).

3) When the neighbor sits down his eye-contact with Oskar’s dad seemed to communicate a deep affection, based on the smile and uninhibited eye-contact. The neighbor’s eye-contact even tracks with the dad’s face across the room (indication of attraction to that person’s face).

4) ...That creepy ‘cozy’ line, while leaning closer to Oskar.

5) Shots of Oskar alternating looks between the two men (something that would happen if a boy was trying to process seeing his dad with another woman).

6) The shot of Oskar’s dad looking in the direction of the neighbor; and then quickly looking at Oskar, as a guilty reaction to realizing Oskar was watching him stare at this neighbor.

7) All of the close-up eye-contact in this scene feels a bit too familiar; as though the two men were trying to cover up a secret, while communicating compassion and affection for each other.

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Coming from a neighbour country, my thoughts about the rundown would be:

1) Less closeness would be required to do that here, but still it would require a good friend to enter without knocking. Which was what I saw, a close drinking buddy. He entered in his slippers, so he had walked only a few metres. What I cannot see is why people automatically think of a good friend as gay, when chances are that they are not.

For the other points, I can't help coming back to 1). I'm curious why that still is your first assumption, even when another explanation is offered, alcoholism and guilt connected to that?

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I accept the assumption of alcoholism, I was just explaining the reasons and cultural differences that could have led to another assumption.

Any one of the seven points won't bear much weight on their own, but the combination of them begins to paint a picture.

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I accept the assumption of alcoholism, I was just explaining the reasons and cultural differences that could have led to another assumption.
I guess so, this is more like a scandinavian behaviour, bigger cultural differences will make it more difficult to see matters as they are. It's a steady stream of people asking about the gay thing, so it's obvious that people who cannot see the alcohol thing, for some reason resort to homosexuality.

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O.K., I have already been involved in similar discussion with you, now I'm reading everything that we've been talking about all over again. Obviously, though I finally accepted your point of view because your arguments came from a person living in geographically and traditionally neighbor culture. But the number of people who post messages here with similar conclusions show that the authors didn't understand the difference between their way of life and the rest of the world, and didn't expect the confusion it will make.

Also... though you describe Oskar's father and his drinkmate as "heavy alcoholics" it is obvious that you have never seen a real heavy alcoholics existing in some other parts of the world, and other drinking traditions. If you had, you'd understand why people don't get impression that drinking is any, let alone major problem in life of Oskar's dad.

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lso... though you describe Oskar's father and his drinkmate as "heavy alcoholics" -przgzr


Sorry if it came across as if I did that, it was never my intention. I find Oskar's father described about as he was in the book, some kind of a dipsomaniac, coping well for long periods, but needing periods of drinking in-between.

If he had been a "heavy alcoholic", Yvonne would probably never allowed Oskar to visit him without she being with him.

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There are many types of alcoholics in the world. Just because Oskar's father can function doesnt change the fact that he chose alcohol over being sober with his son. In LTROI, nothing is in the extreme and that just underscores that what people think is tolerable, shouldnt be. I sincerely doubt that Sweden is just the nicest place in the world and the equal to Oskars fathers type of alcoholism everywhere else is all the time falling down drunk 24/7. No Im sure Sweden has there share of those types of alcoholics just like they probably have alot worse mothers than Oskars and worse bullies but LTROI isnt about the very extreme in society, its about the normal dysfunction.

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Agreed, he reminds me of my father's cousin, he was of this breed. Tended his job (fisherman and chef) and his house, but it was very obvious where his focus was.
Nicest man on earth, however when visiting him anything could happen, from the most fantastic dishes to calling the doctor because he was coughing up blood.

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"...but LTROI isnt about the very extreme in society, its about the normal dysfunction." - jidici


This is exactly right, and a very important thing to bear in mind when discussing the film.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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Yeah, the kid of 200 years isn't an extreme either, Sweden has a lot of much older ones...

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"Yeah, the kid of 200 years isn't an extreme either, Sweden has a lot of much older ones..." - przgzr


So I'm lead to believe. In fact, I think Drakkar is actually around 300 years old, but don't tell him I told you

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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O.K., I'll keep it our secret. So, you think that he isn't from castrate-a-vampire but burn-a-witch generation?

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"O.K., I'll keep it our secret. So, you think that he isn't from castrate-a-vampire but burn-a-witch generation?" - przgzr


Oh, he's not human, he's a troll ... just ask Harpo

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http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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300 yrs are nothing, trolls get MUCH older than that. :)

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Good for you, I've already started worrying...

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Mustnt do, trolls never worry. .

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LOL. that made me laugh. I have a sinus infection, thus can only breathe out of my mouth, and haven't been having much fun lately. Thanks for making my actually LAUGH OUT LOUD, to the point my dog gave me a dirty look. :-p

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If the father was truly just an alcoholic why was the bottle three quarters of the way full? Usually with alcoholics the bottle would either be almost empty or completely full. Not too many alcoholics could stop after one drink.

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The alcoholic part of him allowed his son to return home at night hitch-hiking. He was a crap father period.

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"If the father was truly just an alcoholic why was the bottle three quarters of the way full? Usually with alcoholics the bottle would either be almost empty or completely full. Not too many alcoholics could stop after one drink." - anthonysnowden9


All people that drink to extremes, be they alcoholics or just binge drinkers, will stop drinking when they pass out, not only when the bottle empties. Erik appears to be an High Functioning Alcoholic, which means that he would have probably had the money to buy more than enough alcohol for the previous drinking session, and so there was some left over. It's a bit silly to say that there are only two possible levels of alcohol in an alcoholic's bottle (full or almost empty).

"The alcoholic part of him allowed his son to return home at night hitch-hiking. He was a crap father period." - anthonysnowden9


You also seem to ignore the reality that part of being an alcoholic is continuing to drink even though you can rationalise that it is causing issues to those around you, as in Erik's case. The vast majority of active alcoholics are crap parents, because of their alcoholism. In Erik's case; it wasn't that he was a crap parent that neglected his kid but was also an alcoholic, he was a crap parent that neglected his kid because he was an alcoholic. Although to be perfectly honest, I don't think the love that Oskar had for his father would have been there if Erik had been a "crap father" for the majority of the time he spent with Oskar.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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I don't think the love that Oskar had for his father would have been there if Erik had been a "crap father" for the majority of the time he spent with Oskar.

Yes, jameron, I agree, because Oskar doesn't seem to be unhappy or afraid when going to see his father, therefore we can assume that he had reason to expect some good time spent with him (Oskar isn't a small kid, he has his collection of experiences); and when he sees neighbor entering Erik's place Oskar becomes disappointed. He obviously immediately realizes that this isn't going to be one of those "good" visits to his father. However, I would still (as I wrote before) believe that there is a gay-issue if I haven't been corrected on this board.

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Hello, old friend.

Yesterday I was reading through our old discussions, and today you're posting on this board ... are you psychic? lol.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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I was replying on another board and then I realized that I have lately neglected my IMDb activities, so I spent some time wandering along the boards where I used to participate. Some threads have vanished, but some old titles caught my eye... and I'm glad I got a chance to say hallo to you.

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7) All of the close-up eye-contact in this scene feels a bit too familiar; as though the two men were trying to cover up a secret, while communicating compassion and affection for each other.
The secret being that they're alcoholics.

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I don't think the film-makers ever believed this film would be such a international success. I think they just wanted wanted to make a good Swedish film without any intentions of selling it abroad. Most Swedish films don't get exported abroad.

So to whoever was saying the film-makers didn't think of that aspect, you are right. They never made it for an international audience but for a Swedish/Scandinavian audience.

But I don't like the comment about not seeing other alcoholics in other countries. Obviously you haven't seen Scandinavian or Swedish alcoholics? Swedes are some of the hardest drinkers in the world and our alcoholics are among the heaviest in the world.
Going by that comment it seems as if that is a light matter.

I understand that the difference is probably cultural, but I still thought it was pretty obvious they were alcoholics and nothing else.
I made that assumption because once I watched this film in school with a bunch of foreign exchange students from different places such as Korea, Germany, Israel,Mexico and they all seemed to get they were alcoholics.
Or maybe we just have similar drinking habits:)?

That's why I assumed everyone would get that issue.

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Alcoholics...

Drinking every day, in the morning so the hands wouldn't tremble - otherwise he couldn't work anything including holding a toothbrush, and even worse, a glass (oh, that's not a real problem, they drink from a bottle anyway). Later, to gain strength, because he can't stand on his feet because wine/brandy/etc gives power to his leg muscles. In the noon because his stomach wouldn't work and the food wouldn't be digested properly. In the afternoon he probably goes to a bar/pub/tavern, but any of these names is a compliment for this dark place filled with smoke, with wooden chairs, old windows that never get washed, floor that is so dirty that fits the guests' clothes, a jar of wine cheaper than water in neighbor market and made in owner's cellar probably never seeing grape, a place that must have inspired directors of old comedies where peasants discuss about Transylvanian vampires, having their windows covered with garlic. Sometimes they go home for supper, but often find it a loss of time, and stay beside the same table until the owner turns the light off, that single bulb hanging from the ceiling on a wire that was a part of a long ago broken pendant. And then he tries to find his way home, but this task often can't be achieved. The street is too long and too narrow, if he manages to chose the correct one at all. And at least once a week he won't be able to reach his home: if he walks home he'll be too tired and lay under a tree to rest, what might last till morning; if he rides a bike the ditches along the road are too tempting and the real question is if both he and the bike end in the same side, or one ends on left, the other on the right ditch. Anyway, every real alcoholic at least several times per month returns home in a wheelbarrow driven by a brother, neighbor, or a drinking buddy who still didn't touch the bottom. And finally, if the hero of our story lives in a suburb or a village, he probably lives in a house with a cellar, and guess what it the main if not the only content of this favorite part of his home? So, if he returns alone (not in a wheelbarrow), it will not be in marital bed, but two and half meters below, among his pets, his barrels full of wine of his own production whose quality doesn't differ much from the one already dispersed along his veins. And not rarely this underground visit will turn to all-night-long one because he will fall asleep on the floor or on the stairs. This will be helpful for him, because when he wakes in the middle of the night he will already be there with everything he needs in life, instead of getting up from the bed and crawling to the cellar if it was one of those nights when he managed to reach his bed.

If you have never seen an alcoholic like this, talked to him, knew his wife, family, friends, talked to people who he works with (are, more likely, worked with because he has been fired - again, as so many times before), talked to his doctors and social workers who have been repeatedly told to give up, to disappear and leave him alone because this is exactly the life that he wants to live; if you have never heard one of them telling you proudly how he fooled his doctors and nurses and managed to get new supplies of liquor each and every day of his hospital "treatment", if you have never talked to a person who dropped an alcoholic in a wheelbarrow, drove him home, put him in the middle of the garden, took a hose for watering the garden or supplying water to cattle, then washed the ditch mud from our hero's clothes, skin, hair, because taking him to bathroom would make it unsuitable for use for a long, long time... yes, if you have never had such an opportunity, than I believe your first thought when seeing Oskar's dad is that he is alcoholic.

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I don't know if you're being facetious, but alcoholics run the gamut of more then what you described.

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"because as an American viewer, that scene reads as a clear indication of a homosexual relationship"

I'm an American viewer and I didn't think so. I thought it was simply a European friendship, which tend to be (as far as I can tell) a little more porous in terms of gender-love.

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Agreed. And a similar friendship was shown earlier in the film between Jocke and Lacke....after a long nite of drinking together in the bar, Lacke practically embraces Jocke saying something along the lines of being so grateful for a nite together of drinking and merriment. I think the director did a good job of showing how the people in this movie are very into their drinking and wanting to have mates to do it with. Same between Oskar's dad and the neighbor. They are living even more remotely it seems, so they probably depend on each other for companionship while drinking.

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I think you misunderstood.
Oskar's dad just invited a friend (possably a psychiatrist) to talk to his son about the incident at school when he hit the kid.
The reason they are looking at eachother like that is because they want to be subtle about the subject. They don't want to make Oskar feel he's being analysed. Yet Oskar's look proves he suspects what's going on.
Dad is just worried about his son and needs a drink.
That doesn't nessesarily mean he's an alcoholic. Unless the book states that somewhere.
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Relax! - www.bryanel.com

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"Dad is just worried about his son and needs a drink.
That doesn't nessesarily mean he's an alcoholic. Unless the book states that somewhere." - Deepsight


*****BOOK SPOILERS BELOW*****

Erik Eriksson (Oskar's father) was an alcoholic in the book. His alcoholism is also partly to blame for the break up of his marriage, when Oskar was only two years old.

The guy that visits him at his house when Oskar is there is called Janne in the book, no mention of his name in the film in that scene (although there is a credit to Sören Källstigen playing Janne with a note that says "Eriks kompis" - Erik's freind). So it is almost certain that he is the same Janne. However, earlier on in the film Lacke tells the other drinkers in the bar that Håkan, although he didn't know his name, had just moved into Janne's old place (next door to Oskar). This signifies that Erik and Janne were old drinking 'buddies', and have a familiarity of friendship that allows them just to walk into each other's houses without knocking.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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This observation about "Janne's old place" puts a completely new light on the subject.

It's also not unusual to visit neighbors without too many formalities, sometimes even without knocking, in many parts of my country as well; this is vanishing in bigger cities, especially in skyscrapers and big new city quarters. But this is also the way that family friends appear, women come to drink coffee with each other or to borrow some ingredients for the lunch or cake they lack (and don't want or have time to go to local store, or it's too late so the story is already closed), not to mention youngsters that come and go like a breeze or a storm depending on the game that they participate.

However, this still doesn't tell the difference if they are a gay couple alcoholic buddies. It might even suggest the former option to be more likely, because you'd expect someone to follow his neighbor from a town to a village more if they were lovers than just sharing love to drink. On the other hand, if they were lovers and in so close relationship that one leaves his apartment and life in town just because the other one did the same, it could be expected that they started living together. Unless they don't want Oskar to know the truth about them (if it happened in some other countries, it would also be possible that they try to avoid gossips, hostility and repulsion of a small community - yet I think that one wouldn't expect it in Sweden).

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"However, this still doesn't tell the difference if they are a gay couple alcoholic buddies. It might even suggest the former option to be more likely, because you'd expect someone to follow his neighbor from a town to a village more if they were lovers than just sharing love to drink. On the other hand, if they were lovers and in so close relationship that one leaves his apartment and life in town just because the other one did the same, it could be expected that they started living together. Unless they don't want Oskar to know the truth about them (if it happened in some other countries, it would also be possible that they try to avoid gossips, hostility and repulsion of a small community - yet I think that one wouldn't expect it in Sweden)." - przgzr


Like you say, it doesn't completely rule out the 'gay' option, but by the same token it doesn't completely rule out that they are both aliens from the planet Zarg and have to live within a mile of each other, or they'll explode. There is no corroborating evidence to support either view, and so we can assume that neither option is what the Director was going for. However, we see that they are friends and that they drink heavily together, at Oskar's expense, so 'drinking buddies' is a good fit.

You also bring up something that occurred to me after I had posted my comment. If they were, in fact, gay lovers, where else in the world would they be less conspicuous living together, than in Sweden? Erik could always tell Oskar that Janne is his lodger, to help with the cost of running the house and the loneliness of not having a family any more.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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[qoute]it doesn't completely rule out that they are both aliens from the planet Zarg and have to live within a mile of each other, or they'll explode[/qoute]
Well, having in mind that we talk about a movie which expects us to accept that it is normal having a vampire next door who will start bleeding if enters your room without being invited, who is two centuries old still needing a tutor but solving bullying problems more efficiently than any ordinary school system... hmmmm... yes, that Zerg theory looks quite acceptable...

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"Well, having in mind that we talk about a movie which expects us to accept that it is normal having a vampire next door who will start bleeding if enters your room without being invited, who is two centuries old still needing a tutor but solving bullying problems more efficiently than any ordinary school system... hmmmm... yes, that Zerg theory looks quite acceptable..." - przgzr


Haha, but you know my love of evidence, there is evidence in the film to support vampirism of Eli, as there is to support the alcoholism of Erik. There is no 'evidence' to support the gay lovers theory, or the alien invasion scout theory. It is the difference between the Director deliberately including something in the film to point in a certain direction, as opposed to the lack of ruling out a million possible scenarios. Just because Tomas didn't show Erik hating Leonid Brezhnev, does that mean it's okay to assume that he is a card carrying member of the Communist Party? I think not.

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There is no 'evidence' to support the gay lovers theory, or the alien invasion scout theory.

Not completely. Indeed, there is a certain lack of alien theory evidence, but as for gay theory there are some possible hints. Erik is divorced, what doesn't say much about him because it is easier to find a divorced Swedish person than the one living in his first marriage, but Erik is still alone, whenever we see him there in female person not was ever mentioned. People who divorce usually do it because they already have a certain supply of spare female persons. We only get the information that there is a certain male person entering Erik's flat as if coming into his own place. What, certainly, doesn't mean that he is gay as long as it isn't written on his forehead, or we see them shown in action (what would probably put this movie into a rather different category), but as you say, some things don't have to bee too explicit to be assumed, so we also can't say that, if we don't see his weapon licence he automatically is or isn't an agent of San Marino secret service, yet the latter seems a bit less likely.

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"Erik is divorced" - przgzr


That happens.

"but Erik is still alone" - przgzr


That also happens.

"whenever we see him there in female person not was ever mentioned" - przgzr


It's not so unusual, a bad marriage can really damage someone's ability to truly open up again.

"People who divorce usually do it because they already have a certain supply of spare female persons" - przgzr


Some people get divorced because they just can't stand being in the same house any more. Getting divorced and living alone is preferable to spending the next 25 years in prison for murdering your spouse.

I have known two alcoholics in my time, both were married, both ended up divorced, both are still alone. Their mistress is in a bottle, there is no room for anyone else in their life. They are perfectly content with their alcohol and their self loathing (ie. Anders, in Harbour).

"but as you say, some things don't have to bee too explicit to be assumed" - przgzr


I wouldn't go quite that far, I would say that there has to be something in the film to imply that a character is 'a' or 'b', no matter how small, there has to be something, at least. The lack of female visitors is an omission of hints, and so suggests ... nothing. Now, if we saw Oskar brushing his teeth in his father's bathroom, and in the background we see a glass on the shelf with two toothbrushes, that would be a hint. Not proof positive, still ambiguous, but a hint nonetheless. What do we get from the film? ... nada.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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From what I've picked up from John talking about himself and his childhood, I got the impression Oskar's father is another autobiographical element. There are parallels between Oskar's and John's father, both in the way they lived, and where they lived. I also got this inkling that Oskar's view of his father is part of this autobiographical element.

You mentioned Anders in Harbour, Jameron. That novel is dedicated to John's father, and is taking place in an imaginary archipelago in his old fishing grounds.

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if we saw Oskar brushing his teeth in his father's bathroom, and in the background we see a glass on the shelf with two toothbrushes, that would be a hint

Not as long as we don't see who uses the second toothbrush. It still could belong to somebody else, and not the prime suspect.

Otherwise, I agree with you, there is nothing to makes us definitely sure it is one way or the other. But also just abuse of alcohol doesn't completely exclude the gay theory, because gay couples can also drink together, can't they?

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"Not as long as we don't see who uses the second toothbrush. It still could belong to somebody else, and not the prime suspect." - przgzr


But if we see who uses it, it wouldn't be a hint, it would be a direct statement ... much less fun.

"Otherwise, I agree with you, there is nothing to makes us definitely sure it is one way or the other. But also just abuse of alcohol doesn't completely exclude the gay theory, because gay couples can also drink together, can't they? " - przgzr


No it doesn't exclude it, but this is like asking a charged man to prove his innocence. It is up to the accuser to prove someone's guilt by citing evidence from the film.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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But if we see who uses it, it wouldn't be a hint, it would be a direct statement

Also, Oskar's father living alone and another man (even if we don't know that he followed Oskar's father from city life to distant village!) entering his room as if coming into his own can also be a hint... This thread (and one similar a while ago) has been started because of this hint.

Yes, I know, you and drakkar-the-good-troll told me about the Swedish drinking habits, but if I relied only on hints... Hints may be a very good ingredient of a movie art, but sometimes a direct statement enables understanding of the plot...

It is up to the accuser to prove someone's guilt by citing evidence from the film.

Hey, where have you read any accusation? I haven't read any accusation, either for being gay or for being alcoholic. Those were only theories, questions, looking for something more than an undefined hint. And if we had any solid evidence this thread wouldn't have been started.

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"Also, Oskar's father living alone and another man (even if we don't know that he followed Oskar's father from city life to distant village!) entering his room as if coming into his own can also be a hint... This thread (and one similar a while ago) has been started because of this hint." - przgzr


Well I would say that the threads are here because of a misinterpretation, a misreading, of that scene.

"Yes, I know, you and drakkar-the-good-troll told me about the Swedish drinking habits, but if I relied only on hints... Hints may be a very good ingredient of a movie art, but sometimes a direct statement enables understanding of the plot..." - przgzr


But in this case, the perceived hint leads to a dead end, a cul-de-sac, a wrong discovery of Erik's sexuality that has no bearing on the plot whatsoever. It becomes a distraction.

"Hey, where have you read any accusation? I haven't read any accusation, either for being gay or for being alcoholic. Those were only theories, questions, looking for something more than an undefined hint. And if we had any solid evidence this thread wouldn't have been started." - przgzr


Okay, maybe 'accuser' was too strong a word. maybe I should have used 'proposer of the theory'. So lets try this again...

It is up to the proposer of the theory to prove someone's compliance with said theory by citing evidence from the film. It is not up to others to shoot the theory down, and as far as evidence goes, hints just aren't enough. There is, however, direct evidence to support the alcoholic theory.

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I wasn't trying to be needlessly combative, but in hindsight I chose the wrong approach. I apologise.

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http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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Hey, don't be so defensive, we've been discussing here long enough to be sure that there's really no worry for somebody feeling insulted.

And hints are great, but if they mislead too many people the authors have to accept that they might have made it too subtle... Misleading hints can't be interesting and justified in whodunit movies, and in Elmstreet/Halloween type of horrors, but though this movie is a classified as horror this hint has nothing to do with suspense or intense frightening substance, so it's a pity that this misleading indeed leads to a dead end, we see something that doesn't exist and expect something that won't happen. But that is the responsibility of the director (it is not always in the eyes of the beholder...).

If this movie were American the rather tense and in moments almost creepy situation and the way Janne looks at Oskar would probably suggest that there is a child abuse either happening for a while or just about to start, because in modern American movies fathers exist only to molest their kids and terms dark secrets, family problems and skeletons in closet (especially when announced in trailers or paper articles) became equal to sexual abuse. Luckily, this is a very non-American movie and nobody came with this idea.

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I have a theory as to why that scene, and others seem uncommonly creepy for such a bad but commonplace scene. I wonder if Alfredson tried to use horror movie techniques in bad but ordinary situations like the father scene. I thought that he might have used that technique when Virginia and Lacke faced each other in the street before Virginia got pounced by Eli and now I wonder the same about the drinking scene. I say this because it seems that the painful but everyday things are the real horror.

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"Hey, don't be so defensive, we've been discussing here long enough to be sure that there's really no worry for somebody feeling insulted." - przgzr


One can't be too careful. I have had an online friend of two years, recently disown me and won't even acknowledge my existence, all because of something I said that was misinterpreted. So I just wanted to make sure.

"And hints are great, but if they mislead too many people the authors have to accept that they might have made it too subtle...

...If this movie were American the rather tense and in moments almost creepy situation..." - przgzr


This reminds me of the fact that the film was made for Swedes, in Sweden, by a Swedish Director, and a Swedish screenplay writer. It was also made with the knowledge that the rights would be sold to another country (most likely America) to make their own version. So there was absolutely no need for this film to address another country's reading/misreading of any scene. It was made for a Swedish audience and so the only failure is our failure for not being Swedish. This is why this scene in particular causes a lot of comments when seen by non-Swedes.

Somebody posted a link to a site that lists 414 humorous reasons why you know you've been in Sweden too long http://www.australiansabroad.com/sweden/youknow.html

The ones to note are...

27. You refuse to wear a hat, even in minus 20 degree weather. <--this one for Oskar

These for that scene...

38. You no longer see any problem wearing white socks with sandals.

39. Indoors you wear sandals with socks, regardless of the season.

72. You think it's more fun to stay at home and drink then go out.

202. When visiting others you try to go in first. If it's locked THEN you ring the doorbell.

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The rest are funny too, lots of references to alcohol.

All non-Swedes should read this list before watching the film, I'm sure it will help, lol.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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Hahhhha, so true!

So many of my friends acts exactly like this list:)
I have some of the attributes, not all!

Back to the film, had it been intended for an American audience they most certainly would insinuate stuff, because as you say, almost every American father in film seem to be a child molester.
So maybe that's why they assume he is gay, because that's what American films would insinuate!

We Swedes don't have that! In our films fathers are often alcoholics, so naturally they would refer to that. Because it was intended for a mainly Swedish audience who knows what the scene refers to.

I assure you, we rarely have an intention to make our films for anyone else but Swedes or sometimes Scandinavians.
We just had the good fortune to export this one abroad!

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"I assure you, we rarely have an intention to make our films for anyone else but Swedes or sometimes Scandinavians." - jajceboy


And I certainly hope it stays that way :)

I have just watched Flickan. What an amazingly beautiful and touching film about childhood self discovery. This is something I just don't believe the American film industry could do, nor the British film industry (what's left of it) for that matter. We need Sweden to keep making Swedish films, they do it so much better than anyone else

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http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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Unfortunately, one of the greats has fallen, one of the countries that used to make best movies, especially for and about children and teens - Denmark - has been producing hollywoodized movies for at least a decade. On the other hand, Norway is making more and more good movies (becoming better and better) so this is a kind of compensation for us Europeans... But Sweden is still as reliable as it has been throughout movie history...

Of course Americans can't make a movie like Flickan because they can't understand that parents (still, somewhere in the world) don't make children just for their own self-promotion.

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Ok thanks for clearing that up.
But as I thought.. there's nothing that suggests Oskar's dad and his friend are gay. They're just good friends.
One day I may read the book. It seems to have much more detailed info about the characters. For instance, the part where Hakan turns into a vampire, persuing Eli and getting trapped in some basement with somebody. (according to wikipedia)
I would have loved to see that. I wonder why they left that out.
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Relax! - www.bryanel.com

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I would have loved to see that. I wonder why they left that out.

My reply contains spoilers btw

Because there was a pretty vivid depiction of an attempted rape that I don't think could've been pulled off in the movie. Also, LTROI killed Hakan off at the hospital, while in the book, he survived the fall and became a vampire.



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If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?

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thanks for the info mate :)

Need harmonic brainwaves to soothe your diligent mind? Visit bryanel.com & relax!

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Probably for length. I imagine the Hakan zombie would have added another half hour to the film.

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Initially JAL wrote a more than double length screenplay for two films (LTROI 1 planning to end with the basement scene), which I guess followed the book closely. Then it was cut down to the length it has today, with only one film, where many of the subplots gone...

For the heart life is simple, it beats as long as it can.

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That's just sad.
They could have released two movies.
Let The Right One In: Part 1
Let The Right One In: Part 2

Need harmonic brainwaves to soothe your diligent mind? Visit bryanel.com & relax!

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I would like a director's cut...


For the heart life is simple, it beats as long as it can.

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Same here.
If they actually shot all that extra screenplay.

Need harmonic brainwaves to soothe your diligent mind? Visit bryanel.com & relax!

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I think people think Oskar's dad was gay because the way the sequence was shot made it seem like his dad left his mom for a man.

This is exactly why. When I first saw it, that's what I got from the scene, and from Oskar's reaction to that guy. This was more predominant than alcoholism. I didn't get alcoholism from that scene at all.



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I think it is a cultural thing. In rural Sweden (Scandinavia) it is perfectly OK to walk over to the neighbour (the man was in his slippers) to see if he has any booze. If you don't have this cultural reference, you might start searching for other reasons.

I didn't get alcoholism from that scene at all.
But did you get any sexual vibes?


For the heart life is simple, it beats as long as it can.

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But did you get any sexual vibes?

Nope, but I got the sense that something was going on, something that Oskar didn't like, and the friend being there seemed like the issue to me, at least on the first watch (I read the book right after).

I think it is a cultural thing. In rural Sweden (Scandinavia) it is perfectly OK to walk over to the neighbour (the man was in his slippers) to see if he has any booze. If you don't have this cultural reference, you might start searching for other reasons.

I don't think it's because of the cultural differences, at least for me. I'm Mexican, and it's pretty much the same in Mexico, so I didn't get that implication because of that.

I really loved the scene where Oskar looks at Eli's note. It's the moment in the book where he had to choose who he'd rather face, his drunken father or Eli.

The father himself is called a werewolf. Between Eli and his father, Oskar is forced to ask himself “which monster do you choose?”




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The father himself is called a werewolf. Between Eli and his father, Oskar is forced to ask himself “which monster do you choose?”
Yes, this is the turning point in the book.
Btw, referring to a dispute we had over at the LMI board, this is exactly why I don't like the Abby CGI when vamped out. She reminds me of a werewolf, which is totally facepalm in context of the story.



For the heart life is simple, it beats as long as it can.

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Btw, referring to a dispute we had over at the LMI board, this is exactly why I don't like the Abby CGI when vamped out. She reminds me of a werewolf, which is totally facepalm in context of the story.

I can see how you'd get that, from her eyes, teeth, and the sounds she made, but it's not really an issue for me. I thought both movies could've done her transformation better. I still prefer Abby's transformation by a bit better than Eli's though.



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That neighbor coming in while Oskar was at his dads place gave off a gay vibe. Way too up close and lingering looks, smiling and eye contact.

Maybe that's the way drunken alchoholics act, here, there, everwhere? but that was weird as I saw it.

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Here's the kicker for me. It's Winter and he walks in like he'd come from somewhere else. But, had no shoes on. I think that scene was meant to imply that he'd been there (probably in teh dad's bedroom?) and had simply walked around to the front of the house to pretend like he just showed up.

Contrast that with Eli who didn't wear shoes because she really didn't need them.

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Call them ISIL. Isis is an overloaded term that has many other legitimate uses.

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AfroGeek,

Exactly.
The "Friend" walking into room implied to me that he was familiar with doing such things.How many friends do you know gay or straight walks into the room barefoot with a bathrobe on? It showed that he has been doing this for some time,perhaps in hopes of staying the night?
I don't see why it's so hard to understand, why some have viewed the implication that Oskar's dad as being gay?
Also the mother made a statement over the phone while arguing with her ex, " You don't want people to think he doesn't have a dad/father" Which could imply that she made an attack against his manhood.

And the Alcoholism could've been a symptom of him not being able to cope with the fact that he is gay. Many people resort to substance abuse or even suicide because they are not able to cope with the fact of their sexuality. Perhaps in Europe, it is a bit more liberal concerning sexual issues,but here in the States people still struggle with their sexual identity.Which could lead to depression and many different negative addictions.

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"The "Friend" walking into room implied to me that he was familiar with doing such things." - AUGUSTALLEN28


In Sweden it is customary to just walk in when visiting a friend and then announce your presence once inside. It only seems strange to cultures that don't do this.

"How many friends do you know gay or straight walks into the room barefoot with a bathrobe on?" - AUGUSTALLEN28


You appear to have made some factual errors in your observation of the scene, this could explain the misconception you have arrived at. The neighbour (Janne) is not barefoot, and he is not wearing a bathrobe.

"It showed that he has been doing this for some time,perhaps in hopes of staying the night?" - AUGUSTALLEN28


Even if Janne has been visiting often there is no logical reason to jump to the conclusion that he wishes to stay over. Do you have a friend that regularly visits you? Does he want to "stay the night"?

"Also the mother made a statement over the phone while arguing with her ex, " You don't want people to think he doesn't have a dad/father" Which could imply that she made an attack against his manhood. " - AUGUSTALLEN28


Or the obvious attack that he has no real input into his son's life.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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The friend did not have any shoes on and was wearing a house coat or night time robe.That along with the awkward glances. How can alcoholism even be stretched or implied in that scene, Just because someone has a drink with a friend? Neither party were drunk. Perhaps it is just a culture clash?

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"The friend did not have any shoes on and was wearing a house coat or night time robe." - AUGUSTALLEN28


He was wearing thick socks with sandals which isn't uncommon in Sweden if you're only going a short distance ie. next door. As for a "house coat or night time robe" ... no. He was wearing a thin turtle-neck sweater. Did you watch a 240p rip?

"did not have any shoes on" is already different to "walks into the room barefoot", your idea of what happened is beginning to look shaky.

"How can alcoholism even be stretched or implied in that scene..." - AUGUSTALLEN28


The stretch is inferring a gay relationship.

Did they make out with each other or sit there drinking? Go check, I'll wait.

"Perhaps it is just a culture clash?" - AUGUSTALLEN28


It undoubtedly is.

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http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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Judging by comments here I see for many of you it is normal to soil someones house, especially your own friends house. For swedes and many other east/north European nations (Japan too?) it is bad manners to walk into someones house with shoes on, only exception are peoples like police, plumbers, electricians, because usually they are in hurry, don't stay inside house for long or have to walk in/out several times. Winters here are long, almost half of year, and summers rainy, which means most of times your shoes are wet and dirty. After being visited by peoples who doesn't take their shoes off I usually clean my floors where they walked. I have mahogany floor and wool carpets and I appreciate peoples who respect me and my home by taking their shoes off.

I just re watched that fragment of movie and his friend arrived in slippers covered with snow, he knocked at door, took off slippers and went in. Most likely he was living somewhere close because he had slippers and no winter coat.
It's sad how far western homosexual and sex propaganda succeed that now peoples are trying hard to find gays and sex in every little innocent thing. Even if they were gays how would it matter? Oscar had dysfunctional family either way, that matters and it's possibly only reason why his parents appeared in movie. Most of bullied kids have dysfunctional family.
Sorry for my bad english.

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Most people hear are culturally American. That's hwo we're going to interpret movies. SURPRISE!!!

That scene in "Lost in Translation" when the secretary touches the ex-GF's hand implies a lesbian relationship with nothing more than 1/2 a second of footage. That's how movies work.

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Project Mayhem ID: In life I am ur432978. In death, I have a name. My name is AfroGeek.

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"Most people hear are culturally American. That's hwo we're going to interpret movies. SURPRISE!!!" AfroGeek


Even when you know you are watching a non American film? That seems a little arrogant and closed off.

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Not obvious to Swedes. What's obvious is that the neighbor came over to drink with his bud. Implied, then, is that drinking is the Dad's priority -- not his son. And by extension, not his family, hence, the separation.

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