MovieChat Forums > The Butler (2013) Discussion > How was Warner able to supress the Black...

How was Warner able to supress the Black staff's salaries for so long?


Not to mention treating the Blacks with utter contempt. Seems like somebody would have blown the whistle long before the Reagan administration.

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[deleted]

I assume the OP's point is that it was a obvious racial inequality. You can't say the same with other minimum wage jobs, and from the looks of it, working for the white house seemed to give him extra money he didn't have before, so I'd guess he wasn't even working minimum wage. Though I could be confused considering he also worked long hours for many years. To me though, it looks like it's just an issue of a lack of a raise and job promotions for the black staff.

I know I left my last job because not only did we all stopped getting any raises, but we also stopped getting bonuses for new years. And my boss kept getting nicer and nicer cars, and a new house. We only had the crappiest of health insurances because he had to do it. He acts like he is a saint for even offering jobs to anyone. It's sickening what most wealthy people think of us common folk. Can't even start a family with these wages after years of hard work.

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Not to dismiss--or even diminish--the plight of the working man, my point was that, according to this movie, there was naked racial discrimination in the White House even while the civil rights movement was burgeoning under the Kennedy/Johnson administrations, as well as under subsequent administrations. Indeed, according this movie, it went on under Nixon even after the staff had apprised him of the situation and he promised to do something about it. One would think it would even violate the civil rights laws that were passed while it was going on. Given the press scrutiny of the White House, why would the situation never surface?

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Burgeoning?

It is one thing for federal law to be passed another for it to be obeyed by the states.

It took more than one Civil Rights Bill and Voting Bill to be passed by Congress from the late 1950s to the mid 1960s precisely because of this difference.

The Civil Rights effort continued past Johnson's efforts at equal rights because there was no burgeoning. Voter suppression and outright discrimination occured long after federal law was passed.

MLK was in Memphis joining the protest by garbage men for proper treatment and pay in 1968! Three years after LBJ.

If all this resistance by states appointees and elected officials could take place how can you question whether or not an individual, even one employed at the White House, could not continue to discriminate?

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1968 was not three years after LBJ, old man. He was president until 1969.

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Wow.

Three years after LBJ's Administration passed the latest at the time Civil Rights Bill.

That's what I meant but go ahead and make one year a big difference in the big scheme of things a matter of small mindedness as you have.

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actually if you said 1968 was 3 years after LBJ but LBJ was president till 1969, that means you were 4 years off not 1, its called math.

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Voter suppression and outright discrimination occured long after federal law was passed.


Moron, 1982 is LOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGG after. You make this idiotic argument trying to explain why this pay gap wouldn't be an issue. If it were 1962, maybe. Not 1972. SURE AS HELL NOT 1982.

There was no more resistance to the civil rights act in 19fing82. You're ridiculously wrong. You're argument is crap. It makes no sense why it would have gone on that long unnoticed.

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I am not unsympathetic to the the plight of those trying to raise a family in a weak economy. One thing many don't think about, is that there has to be perks for business owners in a free market. If not, no one would take a chance at starting a company. In our family business when things were going poorly, all our employees always got paid, had insurance, etc, but my husband and father in law didn't- for a long time. We also knew that if the business tanked, we would lose everything- our house, cars, credit, etc... The fear that we could lose everything was always there. It is difficult to see things from someone else's point of view sometimes, especially when times are hard. As far as the original topic, it seems unrealistic that the racial inequality would have persisted that long, but it is likely the staff were hesitant to come forward and complain?

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Nice propaganda speech

Do you have an answer to the question??

You don't have to stand tall, but you have to stand up!






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The same way women's salaries are being suppressed now.

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I see what Angus is saying...
And let's stop with, "yeah, but look what's happening now". This is about what happened THEN and in the movie...

One would think that the White House would rise above the inequality, but to the workers it was no different than any other work place. Black people, white people - they each had their role. And whites got paid more. Plain and simple. A white guy managed the staff and was able to pay what he wanted to pay. He could have fired the black people indiscriminately who spoke up, but they didn't speak up because they had families to feed, house, clothe and educate. They were trapped. What an awful feeling - to KNOW that you're worth more, but nobody else sees it (or even worse - they see it but they DON'T care). And you have to swallow your pride so you can feed your children, send them to college, etc.

One can say it happens now, which statistically it does - minority and women DO get paid less than men. But it's nowhere as bad as it was 50+ years ago.

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[deleted]

Women have lower unemployment than men because you can pay a woman less than a man for the same work and get away with it.

Women need to learn to tell people like you where to go when people like you tell us what we need to do.

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Women don't get paid less to do the same job. That's a lie that only cowards trot out.

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You do actually realize that the only things that happened in the movie that corresponded to what happened in the real story of Eugene Allen, for whom this movie is supposedly based on, was that he served in the White House under Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, and Reagan, right?

The implications the movie makes did not reflect the majority of his own experiences, but rather seemed to be among the liberties taken that comes with the words "BASED on a true story." The truth was Eugene Allen worked his way up from being a dishwasher in the White House to the Maitre'd. And his final salary, under President Reagan, was $33,000 a year (which must have gone a whole lot farther in the 1980's than it does now!).

Plus, he was invited to the state dinner honoring Helmut Kohl AFTER he had retired, and never felt as though he was there just for show (which the implication in the movie is the opposite).

Just because something is based on a true story does not make it true. Eugene Allen went on record, giving an interview, saying that he admired and respected every president who served in the White House while he was employed there, and that even Nancy Reagan had sent him a personal condolence when his wife passed away.

So I say all of that to say that the staff's salaries were suppressed because that's how the the writers and producers felt it should have been.

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However, there was an issue with the salaries.

"Hamilton started as a houseman, cleaning and housekeeping at the White House. The staff never promoted him to butler because he challenged the unequal wages between black and white Butlers, Hamilton alleges, as he recalled his experience during President Richard Nixon’s administration.

“I was the one who sued the chief usher J.B. West for unequal pay,” Hamilton explained. “The white workers were the ones getting promoted, and I just had to question why can’t we get promoted to some of these jobs? He just told me straight up that blacks would only be doing domestic work.”

Hamilton retaliated. “That’s when I got mad. I said I don’t care if I lose my job or not, I’m getting sick and tired of this. Then people got mad. They said everything was fine before I came,” Hamilton said as he chuckled.

When the White House staff did not address his complaint, Hamilton wrote a letter to the Department of Labor. Soon after, an investigator told Hamilton that if his story hit the papers, and the president was unaware, he would be fired."

http://www.msnbc.com/melissa-harris-perry/wake-new-film-the-butler-bla ck-ex

Unequal pay was a real issue. It wasn't just 'what the writers and producers felt'.
The only thing is that Hamilton, another domestic worker, brought up the issue and not Eugene.

Hamilton said his White House salary was so low that he had to get a second job as a cab driver. He lived in low income housing until they evicted him because he had two salaries.

In case you are wondering who Hamilton is, he worked in the White House with Eugene Allen. He was still there when Eugene left.

Helmut Kohl visited the White House in 1984. Eugene Allen aka Cecil left the White House in 1986. So he wasn't retired when he attended the State Dinner.

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I took the account that Allen had retired from an interview he did in 2008.

As for the other assertions, I wasn't there, I don't know. But here's what I do know. There are often times when someone who feels like they have been slighted will resort to complaining, and it doesn't matter who it is, it almost always ends up reflecting badly on their own character.

Eugene Allen's career in the White House showed that he and other hard working people got promoted. It seems like Allen simply did his job and did it very well. He was promoted because of that.

If Hamilton spent a large part of his time complaining, that too would reflect back on him.

Again, I don't know the circumstances, or if there was a wage discrepancy. There very well could have been, and Hamilton may have had a legitimate gripe. Maybe even Allen felt the same way. Nobody really knows. But the way each person reacted to that speaks volumes. Allen went about doing the best job he knew how, and ended his career as the maitre'd, after having started off as a dish washer. You don't go from dishwashing to "head of the house" overnight, or without letting your work do your talking for you. That's admirable. To me, it sounds like Hamilton took a different route and allowed himself to become bitter about it.

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" “The white workers were the ones getting promoted, and I just had to question why can’t we get promoted to some of these jobs? ”

By we he meant the black workers not just himself.

Pointing out that whites and blacks were doing the same job but whites were earning more money and being afforded better opportunities at advancement is not being a complainer. Asking for a raise is not being a complainer.

If he were a true complainer or did his job poorly, he wouldn't have lasted there for 55 years.

Hamilton had the guts to speak up and ask. The remaining black staff benefited from him speaking up and inquiring. This includes Allen.

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I wasn't there. You weren't there. Everyone is going to put their own spin on things. There's one side, the other side, and somewhere in between is the truth. What we know is Allen worked his way up and ended with a decent salary. If it had something to do with Hamilton, I don't know, you don't know. If it had more to do with Allen's work ethic and focusing more on his job than politics, we don't know.

What we do know is the portrayal in the movie doesn't really follow Allen's own history of employment in the White House.

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Exactly.

It is one thing to complain about lack of feedback, lack of adequate time for breaks.

It is another to complain about the lack of equal pay for equal work being done based for the most part on racial differences.

We don't have access to their job reviews, but the consistency, over decades, of inconsistent pay between white and black staff is the heart of what was being "complained" about.

Some act as if there is no difference, but the difference is between them and a real life appreciation of what was going on at the time.

A lack of understanding, perspective, and insight, IOW.

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After reading the article the movie was based on I suspect this Warner/raise part is fictionalized. I don't see a problem with fictionalizing the story. As Hitchcock told Cary Grant "It's just a movie."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-butler-well-served-by-this-el ection/2013/08/13/961d5d78-0456-11e3-9259-e2aafe5a5f84_story.html

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I hope the real Warner, if there is one, watched the movie.

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There were two issues raised in the movie. One that black workers were not paid as much as white workers and second that blacks were not promoted into more desirable jobs.

The pay issue is easier to deal with. In the 60s equal pay for equal work laws were enacted. However if Gaines/Allen was complaining about butler pay that pay would have to be compared to the pay of other butlers who, in the movie, all appeared to be black. One jobs pay can't be compared to a different jobs pay for equality purposes as the law does not allow for that. The law does allow for the employer to set different rates for different jobs with different duties. And no, an employer can't get around it using different job titles, its duties that are compared not job titles. Although in the movie all butlers were black, it would be interesting to know in real life what the situation was.

Discrimination in promotions is harder to prove. The employer simply states the person chosen was the better qualified. The law does not require objective data such as seniority to be a deciding factor. Personnel managers are smart they justify promotions based on better job evaluations. Why did the promoted worker get better job evaluations? In addition to probably doing a good job the employer had it in mind the promote that person all along. However, discrimination in promotions can often proved through statistical patterns.



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Easy. . .
1 - payroll was not public record...
people in those positions at that time did not share
how much they made with others... and others did
not share their pay information with others...
that sort of thing still occurs today.

2 - those working for the government didn't want to make waves...
they were glad to have steady work with a reasonable paycheck
(as far as each knew)... especially those who could not read...
you can decide whether that sort of things continues where you live.

3 - division of labor...
each department is given a budget through which they
operate their department... no one questions the budget until
something goes wrong or someone complains... as did Mr. Raines...
this sort of thing still occurs today... it's how the bureaucracy has
become so huge (some would say bloated) and fragmented...
* * *
The combination of those three items may very well have contributed to
the inequality back then and continues to exist in the organization
established to prevent that sort of thing occurring anywhere in the country... (sigh)
* * *
just my two cents - worth every dime you paid for it. . . (wink)

Until that time. . . Earl J.

Born on Valley Isle,
Home now, North Carolina;
Aloha y'all ...

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