Assuming that Bill Denbrough... - IT (2017) Discussion

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

You don't have to eat a turd, you already are one. I didn't say anything about Lieberher's skill in handling "this type of material". Personally, I think that he was poorly cast, but the casting was not the point of my posting - the curse was.

And for your information, Corey Haim, Jonathan Brandis and River Phoenix all were "the voice of reason and direction for the group" in their respective Stephen King movies, and it still didn't prevent them from dying young.

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[–] t3cii-1 8 years ago

Why do you think he was poorly cast?

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

He's so bleak and fragile-looking. I for sure wouldn't follow him. But who knows? Maybe he can stutter as convincingly as Colin Firth or Derek Jacobi.

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[–] GuyNCognito 8 years ago

You follow people based solely on look? Sounds rather sheepish.

Grant discovered raptor eggs in Jurassic Park

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

You think the look doesn't matter for an actor? Sounds as if you also believe that the voice doesn't matter for an opera singer.

Be that as it may, I'd happily be proven wrong. But for now I view plain Jae and charisma as mutually incompatible.

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[–] GuyNCognito 8 years ago

You didn't even answer my question. Hilarious.

Grant discovered raptor eggs in Jurassic Park

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

You didn't even ask a question. That's even more hilarious.

But okay, let's pretend for a moment that you were serious. Now what was the insult? Oh yes:

You follow people based solely on look? Sounds rather sheepish.

No, I'd follow based on charismatic leadership (which is what Jaeden Lieberher does not exude).

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[–] GuyNCognito 8 years ago

Wonderful. Thank you for clarifying that you base someone's leadership skills (probably more than just that) on someone's appearance. I am sure you make great decisions all of the time.

Grant discovered raptor eggs in Jurassic Park

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] altenba 8 years ago

Wonderful. Thank you for clarifying that you're already the third poster in this thread who does not have any reading skills at all.

And by the way, your signature is factually incorrect. Grant did not discover raptor eggs in Jurassic Park. Seems like you're misrepresenting the movies in about the same way as you're twisting other people's postings.

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[–] GuyNCognito 8 years ago

Grant most certainly found raptor eggs. I will be more than happy to explain it to you, as you seem to now know anything?

In the beginning of the film, Muldoon and crew are moving an adult raptor. From where? Not the nursery. It's an adult. So it must be from the park. How do I know that they are not already in the park? Because when Grant and everyone else makes it to the park, they find the raptors in the pen eating that bull/cow before even entering the park. Next, after the T-Rex breaks out, Grant and the kids escape and travel through where the raptors were supposed to be. If you look on a map of the park behind Mr. Arnold's shoulder, you will see that there was in fact a raptor pen in the park, but as they were too dangerous, they had to be moved into tighter security (which was why that victim dies in the first scene). So Grant and the kids are traveling through a raptor pen that is empty. And then they find eggs. Hmm.

I'm not even going to bother talking about how in the novel, raptor nests played a huge role in the plot or the fact that the scene when the raptor hatches in the hatchery reflects on the scene with Grant and the kids in the park.

And about leadership skills, I tend to follow someone who has great ideas, speaks well, and treats others well. All of which are not things that describe what someone looks like. Nice try, though.

Grant discovered raptor eggs in Jurassic Park

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

A theory without proof is just that: a theory.

it must be from the park

Must? There are numerous reasons (sickness, pregnancy, reaching adulthood, studies etc) why a raptor could be moved in and out. Maybe it even arrived from Isla Sorna.

How do I know that they are not already in the park?

You don't know anything, you're making speculations. That's why it now is up to you to deliver some proof from the film itself for your various assumptions. I'd prefer quotes from characters, but I also take footage of course.

So prove - with the film itself - that the raptor was already in the park.
Prove - with the film itself - that Grant and the kids escape and travel through where the raptors were supposed to be.
Prove - with the film itself - that the raptors that have evidentially been in the park were deemed as too dangerous for staying in the park and therefore had to be moved into tighter security.
Remember that Nedry shut the fences in the park down and prove that no other dinosaurs crossed what you have already proven to be "a raptor pen that is empty".

If you should come up with proof for your assumptions, I'll rewatch the scenes you name and see if the film itself confirms what you merely claim. So, show me that we're talking about facts here.

And about leadership skills, I tend to follow someone who has great ideas, speaks well, and treats others well.

Finally we find some common ground, cause that's what I'd call "charismatic leadership".

All of which are not things that describe what someone looks like.

I never said it would. But I did say - and repeat it just for you - that the looks of Jaeden Lieberher do not exude charismatic leadership, at least not to me. Naturally, I don't have seen his audition or any footage and therefore the possibility remains that his performance will surprise me in the end. But for now my opinion is formed.

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[–] GuyNCognito 8 years ago

Dude, I did just prove it. You are just too much of a loser to admit you were wrong. All of the evidence I mentioned was from the movie. LOL.

Like I said, there are maps in the film that show that there was a raptor paddock within the film... And geographically, where the TRex pen is in comparison to where the visitor's center is on said map, the raptor pen would be right in the middle....

Why would the raptor be sick or injured? We never hear about a sick or injured raptor. But we hear Muldoon say that they are freaking dangerous and should be destroyed....

Nedry doesn't open one gate and let all the dinosaurs out, if that is what you are insinuating?

I am not going to surf the internet looking for pictures, but there is proof. I will be happy to hear from you after you rewatch the film.

And going back to what we were debating... so you agree that what I find to be good leadership skills (which are not visual in any way) is how you would define charismatic leadership, but then you will complain that someone doesn't LOOK LIKE they have it? Interesting.

Grant discovered raptor eggs in Jurassic Park

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

there are maps in the film that show that there was a raptor paddock within the film

The mere fact that a raptor paddock is shown does not prove that the raptors have already been there. But you can give me the scene with the map and I'll take a look to see if you're at least describing said map accurately.

And geographically, where the TRex pen is in comparison to where the visitor's center is on said map, the raptor pen would be right in the middle

If the map should confirm this, then you still have to prove that that's the route Grant and the kids are taking.

Why would the raptor be sick or injured?

I don't know. You're the one who constructed your hypothesis and therefore the onus lies with you.

Nedry doesn't open one gate and let all the dinosaurs out, if that is what you are insinuating?

If I remember correctly, Nedry shuts the fences in the park down.

I am not going to surf the internet looking for pictures

You don't have to. I own the DVD and will look for myself IF you manage to name quotes and images that confirm your grand theory.

I will be happy to hear from you after you rewatch the film.

But I will not rewatch the entire film for you. Actually, I expected that you could give me the scenes your hypothesis is based on off the top of your head.

so you agree that what I find to be good leadership skills (which are not visual in any way) is how you would define charismatic leadership, but then you will complain that someone doesn't LOOK LIKE they have it?

When it comes to an actor in a movie, yes. Because I'm not one of those misguided souls that believe everyone would be right for every role.
And guess what, if I should watch the final film and Lieberher's performance won't convince me either, then I will complain that neither his looks NOR his bearing exude charismatic leadership.

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[–] GuyNCognito 8 years ago

I am sorry that I do not have Jurassic Park memorized to explain to you something I did already. They moved adult raptors in the first scene of the damn movie. Where do you think those adult raptors came from? Dur, the larger enclosure of course! Unless you think that they grew the raptor to its adult size and then moved it to a small pen outside of the park? That makes... no sense?

But, if you take the time to think, from what I presented: moving them out of the park, Muldoon's comment about them being dangerous, and the computer monitors in comparison to maps of the park, you will know I am telling the truth. Also, to add, the fact that they are cunning and would be the likely candidate to lay eggs and hide them, or Grant being a raptor expert, or that the footprints of the baby dinosaurs match one of a raptor....

And I can give two craps what someone looks like when I have yet seen a performance by the actor. I'm not misguided enough to think anyone can play anything, but I do appreciate imaginative and creative thinking when considering movie making.

Complain all you want after the movie. I know you're looking forward to it.

Grant discovered raptor eggs in Jurassic Park

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

I am sorry that I do not have Jurassic Park memorized to explain to you something I did already.

You don't have to memorize Jurassic Park, but you do have to base your film-specific theories on what is actually on screen. And since your hypothesis is so important to you that you even made it your signature, I would have expected you to come up with scenes that support said hypothesis without even having to think about them.

Where do you think those adult raptors came from?

I already gave you various reasons for moving a raptor in an out of the pen outside the park. But since I have to repeat everything for you: sickness, pregnancy, reaching adulthood, studies. Maybe it even arrived from Isla Sorna.

you will know I am telling the truth

I'm not asking you for "truth" here. That Jaeden Lieberher is perfectly cast as Bill Denbrough may be the truth for you, but it is not the truth for me. I'm asking you for facts, and so far you've failed to deliver any.

or that the footprints of the baby dinosaurs match one of a raptor

And T-Rex and other dinosaurs. By the way: Unfortunately for you, I rewatched the Grant with eggs scenes and now you also have to reasonably explain why the eggs in the park look totally different from the raptor eggs in the lab.

And I can give two craps what someone looks like when I have yet seen a performance by the actor. I'm not misguided enough to think anyone can play anything

Then how misguided are you exactly? Are you as misguided as our self-confessed troll thatgingerkid who seriously believes that Rhett Butler could be played by Edward G. Robinson, Indiana Jones by Queen Latifah and Frodo Baggins by Elijah Wood?

I do appreciate imaginative and creative thinking when considering movie making

What you call imaginative and creative thinking is what I call lazy name casting. Consider this: The role to cast is young Bill Denbrough. Right now, Hollywood has three major boy stars: Ty Simpkins, Jaeden Lieberher and Jacob Tremblay. Simpkins is a tad too old at 15, Tremblay is too young at 9 (10 in a couple of days). But fortunately for the motion picture industry, Lieberher is in the right age range and unsurprisingly won the role. But did the filmmakers even care if he's right for the part? Did they seriously consider other and lesser known possibilities? We'll never know for sure (even if Lieberher gives a good performance), since it all ended up as expected - with plain Jae as Bill. Nothing imaginative and creative about that.
On an (un)related note, Jaeden Lieberher and Jacob Tremblay will be playing brothers next year in The Book Of Henry. Nothing imaginative and creative about that either.

Complain all you want after the movie.

I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I'm not asking for your permission to do anything.

I know you're looking forward to it.

You know nothing. As all of your contributions amply display, you're simply making speculations.

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[–] t3cii-1 8 years ago

That's a terrible analogy.

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

I didn't intend this thread to be a casting discussion. But now that we're so deep into it...

Do you think that Lieberher as Bill was a good choice? And if so, why?

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[–] patrickBOOTH 8 years ago

To be fair the book does describe him as tall, broad shoulders, and strong.

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[–] TheRealRandyWatson 8 years ago

I have to kinda agree with you, when I first saw a picture of the cast I assumed he would be Eddie.

My father was a drunk, a gambler and a womanizer. I idolized him

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

Now that you mention it, Jaeden Lieberher bears a resemblance to Adam Faraizl who portrayed young Eddie in the TV miniseries.

Is this the same guy on two different occasions?
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/9rh364PSR1U/St+Vincent+Premiere+2014+Toronto+International/udkm5qZaK6y/Jaeden+Lieberher
http://www.setcelebs.com/img/adam-faraizl-04.html

No, it's not, cause Lieberher has blue eyes whereas Faraizl's look more brown to me. But apart from that: small and thin, brown hair, side parting, somewhat square face with a pained expression, ears a tad too oversized, chubby cheeks and high forehead - all of this applies to both of them. Strange.

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[–] Sawyer_Lost 8 years ago

You don't have to eat a turd, you already are one.

Worst. Comeback. Ever. That could literally be out of the mouth of that dumb, pimply neighbor kid of mine. Bwahahaha.

Books are a uniquely portable magic. ~Stephen King

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

And yet it's better than what you had to contribute. That's something I suppose.

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[–] bossdog677 8 years ago

Solid Snake taught me that there are no such things as coincidences and i'm a better man for it

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[–] ThulsaDoom88 8 years ago

Snake? Snaaaaaaaaake!

~Stop Now Before I Kill You All.A Word To The Wise From Your Friend Pennywise~

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[–] stugood-07006 8 years ago

Whoa, I never put all that together before. Scary stuff.

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

Scarier than anything Stephen King could come up with.

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[–] Pozdnyshev 8 years ago

Assuming that Bill Denbrough...

... IS A HARBOR SEAL??

*arp arp arp arp*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! 😵😲

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[–] TrollFiend 8 years ago

Fûcking troll. How do you know how he is going to come across as Bill? And furthermore you're insulting all those actors by making a mockery of their tragic deaths by correlating them to being in Stelhen King adaptations. It's not funny. Plenty of men have been in King adaptations and are doing just fine

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

When you're talking to me, then you should have the guts to reply to my postings.

How do you know how he is going to come across as Bill?

I don't. That's why I referred to his looks, cause that's the only basis of assessment we have so far.

And furthermore you're insulting all those actors by making a mockery of their tragic deaths

Do you have any reading skills at all? Neither did I insult those actors nor did I make mockery of their tragic deaths.

by correlating them to being in Stelhen King adaptations

I didn't correlate them to Stephen King adaptations, fate did. I'm merely the one who realized it.

It's not funny.

Did I say it was?

Plenty of men have been in King adaptations and are doing just fine

Yes indeed, and I already pointed out that the curse catches boys and not men. And while we're on it, boy actor alone isn't enough - they also have to be in leading roles, not supporting ones.

All told, your post reeks as if you're just upset that you didn't have the brains to discover the Stephen King curse. But I did.

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[–] Pozdnyshev 8 years ago

Fûcking troll. How do you know how he is going to come across as Bill? And furthermore you're insulting all those actors by making a mockery of their tragic deaths by correlating them to being in Stelhen King adaptations. It's not funny. Plenty of men have been in King adaptations and are doing just fine

Beggin' your pardon, sir, but I do believe Bill Denbrough will be played by a harbor seal:

http://coastalenergyandenvironment.web.unc.edu/files/2011/07/harbor-seal.jpg

He will be voiced by Gilbert Gottfried. Arp.

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[–] smegmausa 8 years ago

Some of you seriously need to learn to read and comprehend what is being said before acting like babies. How many times does Altenba need to repeat what he literally just said?
He never made a mockery of their tragic deaths (it's called an observation)
Not agreeing with a casting choice isn't trolling, it's an opinion.
If (as has been specified) he doesn't think based on looks (which he mentioned is all we have to go by as of yet) that the actor lacks a certain charm or leadership quality, then that's his opinion.
He never insinuated that the actor was not talented, just that he thinks he was possibly miscast.

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[–] TrollFiend 8 years ago

A casting disagreement based solely on his looks. Completely shallow and insulting. Troll. I know one when i see one because I can be quite the troll myself. I'm certain altenba can speak for his or her self as well although it would not be surprising in the slightest that you are one I the same. I read the post clearly. I stand by what I said. People coming on here and writing insulting posts about these child actors is just plain sad.

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[–] altenba 8 years ago

A casting disagreement based solely on his looks.

Naturally.

I know one when i see one because I can be quite the troll myself.

We all can confirm this.

I'm certain altenba can speak for his or her self as well

Himself. And I already did speak for myself.

People coming on here and writing insulting posts about these child actors is just plain sad.

Now if the wording "bleak and fragile-looking" is what you call an "insulting post", then I'd really like to know how you'd call your own postings in this thread. Oops, I forgot, you already admitted that you're quite the troll yourself.

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[–] Pozdnyshev 8 years ago

A casting disagreement based solely on his looks. Completely shallow and insulting.

Harbor seal.

I'm certain altenba can speak for his or her self as well although it would not be surprising in the slightest that you are one I the same.

I farted. It was wet.

tand by w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BITOpJi3deA

People coming on here and writing insulting posts about these child actors is just plain sad.

Turdley pooty-poot assfarts McGee.

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[–] patrickBOOTH 8 years ago

Interesting! It is kind of like this one position at my father's business. The guys are always killing themselves.

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