A Little OT: Gay on Gay Rape


First off, I promise I'm not trolling.

I've been trying research the psychology behind gay on gay rape and can find nothing and since TGWTDT is so heavily themed in sexual assaults, this seemed like the next best place to try.

I'm a gay man and I have a gay male friend who was raped by another gay guy (in other words, not a hate crime). I can't understand why and he doesn't want to talk about it. Since straight male rapists hate women, why would a gay guy sexually assault one of his own kind?



Ignore the trolls! Any failure to do so will only grant them the satisfaction they seek!

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[deleted]

What? People rape others for a handful of different reasons. Being intoxicated and a POS and overcoming another, being a psychologically messed up person who wants to dominate another in such a way, hate against the person, etc. There are too many people in the world with too any issues to boil rape down to "some men hate women so they rape them."

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Erm...rape is not necessarily about hatred. Straight males rape others in prison. It's just a desperate grab at power and control.

Expiration dates are mere suggestions! Like late fees and traffic lights.

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Exactly! Feminists, who often know as little as one can possibly know about what men think, have defined rape as strictly about hatred and misogyny. But sometimes it's probably just a combination of being compulsively horny, violence-prone, and lacking in morals and human empathy. Someone might crack you over the head and steal your wallet, not because they hate you and want to terrorize you into submission, but simply because they want your money. Why is rape necessarily so different?

The whole thing is very political. Some feminists want to make rapists into shock troops in some overarching "patriarchal" conspiracy to subjugate women. That's their theory, but I don't buy it.

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I am a feminist. Watch your generalizations.

Expiration dates are mere suggestions! Like late fees and traffic lights.

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[deleted]



Expiration dates are mere suggestions! Like late fees and traffic lights.

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"Feminists do something I don't like so I can do it too!"

Wonderful reasoning.

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>Feminists, who often know as little as one can possibly know about what men think, have defined rape as strictly about hatred and misogyny.

Oh, dear, that is so imprecise. You've missed the point and are way overgeneralizing.

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Agreed but there are allot of "feminists" who act just as he was saying...maybe not an accurate portrayal but I've seen it allot. I knew and know girls who are feminists after being raped which explains it sort of...its sad because its very hard for them to look at Male's the same again (assuming it was a male who did it to a female) I had a friend describe being raped to me and I think it tore my heart out, it made me hate men for a little bit (and I'm a straight male!). I think rape is probably the worst thing you can do to someone and It truly disgusts me, watching those scenes in TGWTDT was difficult (except for maybe the revenge scene :P). Anyways I guess that was more of a rant about rape but whatever.

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There are "a lot" more feminists who don't act that way than there are, so...what are you trying to say...are you defending making generalizations about groups based on a small portion of them? Or maybe you should rethink the first part of your really thoughtless comment? Maybe? "But whatever."

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Backin' you two up on this one. Lizardildo missed a d and accidently put an l in for the other d in his user name, and we can all just imagine as to what they each d stands for individually outside of his user name in general.

Got to love someone attacking a generalization with their own generalization. Where would we be with out hypocrites? The world may never know...
Or is that how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop...
Or maybe there are is more than one thing the world may never know?!?!?! ((Panic Attack))

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Are you retarded?

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I have a gay male friend who was raped by another gay guy (in other words, not a hate crime).


How did you know the rapist was gay? You can rape somebody of the same sex and be straight. Look at American History X, it's not about sex, it's about dominance and power as well as subordination. It can still be a hate crime.

and he doesn't want to talk about it.


..........He did get raped........who would want to talk about it??

Since straight male rapists hate women


That's a pretty vague statement.

why would a gay guy sexually assault one of his own kind?


Are you stupid or something?

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He told me the rapist was gay. Also my friend is Deaf; Deaf people are usualy very open and blunt with other Deaf people and hearing people who know Sign Language. We're real close friends; sometimes it helps to talk about it. That's why I'm surprised he didn't want to talk about it.

No, I'm not stupid; I was only asked a question.

Any failure to ignore the trolls will only grant them the satisfaction they seek!

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Being a batter for the other team myself, I'd think that there's a bit more to it than just power. It could just as well be a hate crime; I know a few gays who have been open about their sexuality but they hate gays because of things like being bullied when they were younger for who they were, and being rejected by other gays, etc etc... Some gays are extremely bitter and homophobic. It might sound ridiculous but it does happen.

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Not to mention, there are no gay date rap defense classes. Which should change.

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... Since straight male rapists hate women, why would a gay guy sexually assault one of his own kind?
Maybe gay male rapists hate men.



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Rape isnt about sex, its about power.
I think thats a quote from some CSI show, enjoy.

"Har Du Ikke Ren Underbukse PÃ¥ Deg?" - Elling, from the movie by the same name

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Rapists are not the kind of people I want to understand. But, I think hate must come into it.

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Since straight male rapists hate women


What?

angels bleed from the tainted touch of my caress

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Since straight male rapists hate women

What?


Why are people 'what-ing' that? Most rapists (who'd do women) are rather misogynist. They may not be that nice to other men sure, but they mostly degrade women and treat them like objects.

Life is like a beautiful melody, only the lyrics are messed up.

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Since straight male rapists hate women
There's your problem right there. Believing the "conclusions" about why men rape, as laid down by feminist writers.

It would be like me writing the definitive work on childbirth entitled, "The Pain Ain't That Bad, Really".

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[deleted]

Don't you mean you THINK it's true? What does a man like me get in reply when he says something definitive about a woman's psychology? He's told quickly where to go.

Male rapists all hate women? How about prison rapists, who rape other men? Do they then, by your reasoning, hate men as well? And if THAT was all about power and control, then why do prison rapists always go after the youngest and "cutest" and most feminine prisoners to rape?

One of the "facts" I hear from feminist authors/researchers, when building a case for the power/hatred theory of why men rape, is the (correct) statistic showing that ALL ages and attractiveness levels of women, get raped. But what is left out of this "stat", is the fact that the VAST majority of victims of sexual assault are young and pretty. If rape was all or mostly about hatred and misogyny and power, one would expect the victims to be random in terms of youth and beauty, or even MORE likely, skewed towards the richer and more powerful women, who tend to be older. But it's overwhelmingly the youthful and beautiful women who are the targets.

Of course most rapists are angry. But IMO the majority are angry simply because they feel deprived of a commodity they think (with some perverse logic) that they deserve. Yes they feel "teased" and manipulated, but if it were not for sexual desire and sexual frustration, there would BE no anger and no attacks.

Why feel this anger, if you have no interest?

Many rapists don't believe what they are doing is wrong.
I disagree. Some do, of course. Particularly those (like fundamentalist Muslims) who feel the women are sinful and so in some respect "deserve" the punishment, but the majority of those I've seen interviewed (I have read some studies, BA in Psych), do express remorse, but couch that contrition is - as you say - justifications.

They 'clearly' have a much better reason. But that's bullsh!t.
Again, that "finding" you reach here seems a lot like ignoring the self-report evidence, and coming to your own conclusions, based upon nothing but "gut instinct" (I would have said "female intuition", but I know that's a no-no:)

I'd argue that it's so easy for them to excuse their behavior because society is so quick to empathize with them or to blame the victim
Who that hell is EMPATHIZING with rapists? Find me some person who has done that! And to be clear, I'm not talking about he-said/she-said "date rape", where the public is concerned that there might be lying involved, I'm talking about unequivocal ATTACKS here. Find me someone who is defending such heinous actions.

IMO most rapists feel that they perversely "deserve" the prom queen or the woman smiling at them on TV, and that they can't get this brass ring any other way, and just don't care who they hurt to get it. Sure, as I said, they are angry at these women, but they are only angry because they want what someone else has, but won't "share".

SAME reason people rob.
Rich people don't hold up 7-11s.

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[deleted]

Just to get this out of the way, I am not a woman.
Really?

any rapist who rapes a woman hates women
Yeah I know you said that. You said it like the PC maxim it has become. Unfortunately, it is not a proven statement, so you need to preface that one with a "I am of the opinion that..."

A constant theme in your response is that women are raped because they're young and pretty.
Close, but not exactly what I was saying.
I said that the primary reason to rape is a need or desire for sex, and the most desired target for your typical rapist is a young and pretty woman. That is why young and attractive women are the demographic most often targeted by rapists.

You really want me to quote statistics on prison "wolves" preferring young, long-haired, fine-boned, slender "punks"? Really? You think John Goodman or Ernest Borgnine types are in equal demand?

And I'm not dismissing the existence of misogyny. Misogyny and misandry (my spell checker STILL ignores that second word:) are as prevalent today as ever I'm saying that hatred of women is not a significant factor in rape. It IS a factor, but IMO not a prime motivator. A person who hates is more likely to use an ax or baseball bat as a weapon in an attack. When rival gangs who absolutely HATE each other go to war, sex is the last thing on any of their minds. IMO feminists have conditioned society to believe the "truth" that rape is all about power and misogyny, and all without any evidence. I'm not saying I'm right and they're wrong, but I'd like to see a little corroborating proof.

You're also ignoring is the fact that just because rapists go for the more vulnerable person
But it's not just vulnerability. Beauty is a highly-correlated factor in determining which person - male or female - is targeted for rape or abduction. A pretty boy or girl is no more "vulnerable" than his or her equally-sized friends, so IMO you're determining "weakness" factor is spurious. It's beauty and youth that are most highly correlated. Classic Darwinian stuff.

"I want power"? Well that's a bit silly. You could then term ANY desire, as a striving for power. A guy who is hungry and wants someone's hamburger, and steals it from him, you would term by your blanket diagnosis as a desire for "power", as in the power to control one's food intake, but the motivation here would be more specifically and accurately termed a desire for delicious food and HUNGER: gustatory desire.

A sated person does not steal a hamburger, no matter how much he likes the POWER of controlling his metabolism, or how much he HATES the gender or identity of the hamburger's owner.
And similarly, a person with no sexual needs or urges is unlikely to rape.

I agree with you that Rolling Stone cover of the Boston Bomber was stomach churning. I agree there are plenty of idiots ready to explain terrorist acts like that, it's just that I never heard anyone trying to defend some guy who jumps a little girl in the park.

Sure there is victim-blaming that goes on. And some of it is horrible. But some is reasonable. It is NOT a good idea to walk through a Harlem alley in the middle of the night in a bikini and heels. That is not exonerating the rapist, it's just good cautionary sense.
If I tell you not to leave the keys in your car, that is not "victim blaming" when I say I told you so after it gets stolen, and it is not giving the car thief a free pass either.

But like I said, I've never heard anyone defending a "clear" case of unequivocal rape. I'm not talking about gray area rapes, like when girls are drinking, and there is some question about whether or not she gave consent, and then later regretted or completely FORGOT she gave consent ( that DOES occur, you know). I was talking about clear cases of sexual assault. Nobody I've ever heard of has defended the rapist in those cases.


But seriously, you're a guy? I mean, can you speak while a nearby feminist is drinking a glass of water?
:)

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[deleted]

I agree "need" is not technically accurate, but in our society, that word gets used a lot. A person "needs" friends, love, etc.
You're right, though. The rapist probably thinks he needs it, but it's just "want".

And I wasn't talking about just getting "sex" from somebody. Of course, SOMEBODY is gonna say yes, somewhere. But you and I know that some people want what's out of their league, and figure there's only one way to get THAT.

Sure a lot of rapists can be described as "powerless", in that they're usually losers. But a lot of rapists are not what one would call weak. There are plenty of tough, physically strong gangster-types who rape.

Well yeah many guys regard women as "bitches" for ignoring them, and some go crazy and start shooting, but you get lunatics like that occasionally, whether they're wearing a Joker outfit or a postal worker's uniform. They're just nuts.
I think it's understandable to be angry at a gender if they are ignoring you. Plenty of less-than-attractive girls feel the same way about the male gender when they are ignored. But like I said, it is because these women are not giving them what they WANT (not need, I'll grant), that these guys are upset. But I would not call that misogyny or a need for power, it's just anger that they are not getting a commodity they WANT, and the owner won't give it to them.

When a rapist rapes they believe they are entitled to another human being's body. How is that not an act of wanting power?
Like I said, you're supplying a creating motive here. They just DESIRE, that's all. When a man steals another man's car because he's on foot, or a man's hamburger when he wants a tasty snack, his motivation would not be described as a need for "power". He's just fulfilling frustrated desires at the expense of another.

You mention the prevalence of rapes between people who know each other, as an argument AGAINST it being about sex? I guarantee you each and every one of those cases of assault involved him wanting sex and her saying no.

So no I don't have to say 'in my opinion' before any thought I type out. It should be obvious.
Normally I would agree with that. But you started by quoting an "opinion" (rape is all about power) that had become pretty much a PC law in this society, and I wanted to point this out, since I'm challenging it.

Why would you link to stats on rape prevalence in order to argue against misogyny as a determining factor? That site just listed rape stats and victim reports. Yes the numbers are high, but they are even higher (predicted, as most go unreported or un-cared-about) in prisons with men being raped, but I doubt you would list hatred of men being a factor in all the thousands of male rapes that go on daily in US prisons.
It's all about sex. If it was really about power or king-of-the-hill, they would just beat each other up, like they do in women's prisons.

I wasn't trying to argue that misandry is as big a problem as misogyny, just arguing that society is skewing these statistics due to a double-standard. For instance, I once was involved in a college project studying domestic violence in Vancouver. We interviewed emergency-room nurses to get an idea how many women were abused weekly in Vancouver General emergency admissions. Shocking numbers, to be sure, but someone asked offhand if any men were abused, and the answer was no. No listed cases. But upon further questioning, one of the nurses admitted that there were a LOT of men coming in (often with sheepish wives) with suspicious wounds, steak knives and such, and these injuries were almost never recorded (roughly equal prevalence too).

I have no problem with classic Feminism - the true struggle for absolute equality. I consider myself a classical feminist. But I see far too many "feminists" calling every harsh word an "attack", who then LAUGH at the notion of Elin Woods taking a 9-iron to Tiger's jaw over an affair he had.

I wasn't taking about that stuebenville case. I was speaking generally.

I agree defending a rapist because the woman was drunk IS insane. However, I was referring to the case of a woman consenting to sex, and then forgets that she GAVE consent in the morning. It DOES occur. (I have woken up next to a woman, and to this day do not remember much of anything that happened).

I think it's idiotic to make rules like "even if a woman GIVES consent, if she was drunk when she gave it, it's RAPE". THAT is insane. Does anyone care if the man was drunk? Or both of them? I'm sorry, but a person is responsible for their own state and drinking and drug use, and the consent they give.
Can you imaging how loudly the world would laugh if I were to charge that woman I woke up in bed with? It's different? Why? Because the woman complains more? Her autonomy is more important? (or her granted love just a more valuable commodity?) :)



You're right. You won't change my mind. I hate to sound arrogant, but I've heard these arguments before. And I always think I'm right about everything:)
And you've probably heard my arguments too.

Good talking with you!

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