MovieChat Forums > Z for Zachariah (2015) Discussion > Why do so many reviews paint Caleb as th...

Why do so many reviews paint Caleb as the villain?


He was not a murderer.

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I have yet to see the film due to limited release but I'll get to see it once i get my copy from overseas. Anyways the trailer seems to paint caleb as the bad guy and somewhat creepy, now i don't know if that's just the way the trailer was put together or if it's the way caleb comes across as being creepy etc.

Off topic chris would have made a fantastic joker

"Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions"

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Maybe relatively speaking he was. I don't think the movie makes him out to be a total villain. He just comes off as a slightly mischievous opportunist. He was always willing to work and contribute and he didn't actually initiate the sex with Ann. More than anything he just seemed young and stupid which could also be said about Ann.

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There was never any indication that he was a horrible person. Although he did stalk them and steal food from them for a few days.

Although the story he told of the miner killing others in the underground - I have a feeling he actually did the killing.

That's why John told the story of finding the boy. He wanted Caleb to open up and say something about his journey there. Although that backfired because Caleb knows how to lie and John does not. John tries to lie but it's obvious. Caleb was a smooth talker and that scared John.

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You guys, it's an Adam and Eve story. Caleb is the "snake"

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While he isn\t a murderer, he is instrumental in her fall from grace just like the Serpent in the garden is for Eve. His presence is a clear nod to the story of Adam and Eve.

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There is even a scene when John finds that book A is for Adam. So yeah, pretty much an
Adam and Eve thing with Caleb as the snake.

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He is instrumental in her fall from grace?

What fall from grace, sir? The fact that she had sex? An act that she herself initiated? An act she earlier tried to initiate with John too?

Not that it's something to be ashamed of, to begin with. Especially considering the circumstances. But yeah, let's twist it to paint Caleb as "the serpent" and the murderer John as the virtuous one. So sensible.

Please click on 'reply' at the post you're responding to. Thanks.

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The Adam and Eve analogy holds up. Is Caleb a villain. I believe not but, as John says, the presence of Caleb made John realize Ann was "special." Caleb showed no malice, but his appearance, like the snake, brought an end to whatever innocence John and Ann had.

Early in the film, John and Ann talk about apple trees. Ann attributes their survival to "Him." Her father, who built the chapel, is confused with God. During the turkey hunt, Caleb suggest a wager for Ann. Although Caleb shoots the turkey, he credits John with the kill. It is Caleb who uses Ann's faith as an excuse to dismantle the chapel so they may have power. This power comes from John's knowledge.

Like the serpent in Genesis, Caleb turns John and Ann into real people with real sins for which they must suffer for all their days.

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I thought they did a pretty good job of leaving it to the viewer decide the character's motivations. They could have hit us over the head with who was good and bad as other movies do.

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I disagree. Hit me over the head, I paid to see the movie I deserve a satisfying conclusion. I think it was sloppy story telling. Leaving the story an open ending is just plain lazy. If we invest our time we deserve to know the answer. It's one thing for Ann to be left in the dark, but we as the viewer shouldn't have to do the work of the production staff to give a satisfying ending. I don't always need a Hollywood happy ending. But I do like to have most of the loose ends tied up. In the case of this movie it wasn't over yet. It merely concluded with a dirge-like tune being played on the organ as if the production staff had gone over budget and they lost their funding. At best I'm surprised that it made it to theatrical release. It's got the earmarks of a direct-to-video release if ever there was one!

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I enjoy being left with something to think about after a movie. IMO there was absolutely no question WHAT happened at the the end between John and caleb, just because we didn't see it doesn't change that. There is nothing wrong with a story leaving some details up to our own imaginations. But anyone who believes Caleb would walk away from his belongings, a safe & comfortable home AND(this is the kicker) a beautiful woman(probably the last woman on earth) who wanted to have sex with him, is just fooling themselves.

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LOL! There was plenty of sloppy story-telling in this "adaptation", but what you're referring to wasn't part of it. Caleb's character being ambiguous way better than him being a consummate villain. If you want things spelled out for you in a movie, you should stick to Jackass.

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I have not read any reviews but it would not surprise me that Caleb was indeed painted as the villain.

He was kinda creepy

Loomis came first so that makes Caleb the "intruder"

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Caleb told Ann that you need faith to survive when he knew John didn´t. He also pushed for the conversation about taking down the church even though Ann wasn´t comfortable with it. Simply because he wanted a disagreement between Ann and John. He twisted John´s words to make him sound insensitive.

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I think it's almost entirely because of the fact that John is established as a character by the time Caleb shows up. The audience sympathizes with the character that they know, perceiving Caleb to be an interloper.

I think that's the point. We're meant to sympathize with someone who is objectively "the bad guy" because we get to know him before he crosses that line. Most bad guys seem alright beforehand. He puts on the airs of a decent person when it's convenient for him, but he becomes a murderer and a liar as soon as the circumstances change. His courtship of Anne become sinister - and not just a little revolting - when you realize how calculated it is, after he has crossed the moral event horizon.

By killing Caleb, an innocent and a valuable asset to their long-term survival, he becomes an irredeemable character. That viewers can look past that is an illustration of the ease with which we can excuse morally repugnant acts when given the right perspective on them.

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LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I was with you up until I realized that you were talking about John. Caleb was definitely the bad guy here.

He came in and didn't care at all about Ann just wanted to have sex with her, and caused general chaos.

But I'm pretty sure I understand exactly where you're coming from :)

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He implied to Ann that non-believers had no place in the valley. So yes, that was kind of ominous. If he had lived, one of them will eventually kill the other anyway. Remember that Caleb also nearly shot John in the back when they were hunting the turkey?

John is calculating at times, yes, but it was driven by fear. He still shows his true self even when it damages his image in the eyes of Ann.

Caleb on the other hand, was manipulative and a liar through and through. And it's driven by outright malice.

And don't be so sure about him not being a murderer. The story about the miners is fishy as hell.

The point is, John may have killed him, but at least he hesitated. Caleb wouldn't even have bothered pulling him up the first time around.

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