MovieChat Forums > Albert Nobbs (2012) Discussion > Transgendered not Homosexual

Transgendered not Homosexual

posted 12 years ago by Rover4000
10 replies | jump to latest

This film is essentially about transgender-ism I believe. It really has nothing to do with sexuality.

It is difficult to compare characters of centuries ago to people now because in the past no one would have been able to even conceive of themselves feeling they are the opposite gender. It is confusing enough for people nowadays (who don't feel that way themselves) to remotely understand it. For instance I have read through this board and only one person posting has mentioned it.

I think it is easier in this film to point out Hubert's life. He was quite confident in his manner and the way he lived his life. He was (in the scene on the beach) feeling a lot more uncomfortable than Albert about what they were doing there. His wife was also very particular about calling them gentlemen and treating them like men, and she knew about them both (having listened behind the door about Albert). Hubert clearly felt male. In today's day and age, he would also live his life as a man, but nowadays he could get hormone treatment to help him.

With Albert, he had hidden so much in plain sight, he seemed a lot more confused. For instance he couldn't really fathom how Hubert lived his life, and Hubert scoffed when Albert told him what he speculated! When Albert was on the beach, he also seemed uncomfortable, although more free. His wanting to have a wife and a business and not be lonely could have been for companionship, but then again he wouldn't be able to conceive of thinking he actually WAS a man. Although for me he seemed just being himself when Hubert asked his real name, and he could only say "Albert". He was just being the person he'd been all his adult life. Had he not had such a bad start in life, it may have been different.

I didn't like what seems to have been the doctor's lack of discretion at the end of the film. How simple would it have been to hide the truth? Oh well, changed days now.

[–] tody711 12 years ago

Yes pretty much. If you listen to the audio commentary on the DVD you will glean a bit of info. Hubert was very comfortable in his world, whereas Albert "had no social skills" to apply to the situation. Both came from tortured pasts caused by men. Yet they both wanted to "be men" like. How could the doctor have hid it from everyone? I am sure Alberts clothing would have been removed and given to someone else to use? Wonder where Albert was buried? Did he go to church with the others? Alberts body must have been taken to an undertaker?

[–] Mehki_Girl 12 years ago

They were not transgendered, I believe, in the true sense of the meaning. They were women in a society that did not protect it's women and in one that unless they had a man they could not function or even survive. They lead the lives of men out of necessity. That is not to say that Mr. Page, wasn't in fact, a lesbian all along, even when she had been married. After a bad marriage, she may have found that living as a man (a choice I believe she made out of necessity after finding herself suddenly in a position that she had to earn a living) benefited her and she found a woman who was lesbian and they could live their lives as man and wife. Even the wife may or may not have been a lesbian. I think women at that time, whether lesbian or not might find they needed to go underground just to survive. Mr. Nobbs came across as completely asexual and chose living as a man as another choice of necessity. They both for reasons of their own - one used to having lived as a man most of his life and the other because she was a lesbian felt awark as women. Helen clearly heterosexual, I believe, well accept Mr. Page and chose to live with him as man and wife, again out of necessity and not necessarily out of a natural sexual orientation.

[–] tody711 12 years ago

Good observations. Didn't Mr Page have several children by her husband? I think they were just trying to get along in brutal situations. I felt sorry for Albert but not Mr Page - as he made a successful transition to a better life. Poor Albert could have stayed on as Mr Nobbs but he chose to try to have a life such as Mr Page. And unfortunately failed. Have you ever read the novel?

[–] ruthwellins 12 years ago

You say that Mr Nobbs was completely asexual, but I think he fell in love with Helen and was a lesbian. He really cares about her and cries when she turns him down, and immediately asks about her after his illness. He seems uncomfortable with the kiss, but that is probably more because s/he has never kissed a woman before....

[–] Brainlock2 12 years ago

wrong, TransVESTITES.

They are women living as men, not medically altered gendered people. You are right in that it had nothing to do with sexuality. I was actually curious if Hubert and Kathleen were lovers or simply roommates making the best of a situation, although Hubert did admit they were living together and were basically scolded into marrying, no one else realizing the truth about "him".

Dr. Holloway (Gleeson) had no reason to suspect anything was "wrong" with Albert until he died. He felt the chest for respiration and noted something odd (watch his face scrunch up in confusion). He felt Albert's chest and noted that there was something "wrong" with it and probably thought it was cancer or boils for a moment until he undressed him to find out the reason. Only at that point did he realize what was going on. He never made any disparaging comment about Albert, but bemoaned that some people were forced to live in secret like that to make a living. It seemed to me that they had a passing friendship, and in honor of Albert's "reveal", he came out about his relationship with the other maid and they left the hotel.

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[–] Rover4000 12 years ago

Well the definition of a transvestite is that someone dresses up as the opposite gender for pleasure. The people in this story weren't doing that. A typical transvestite as we know it would be a man for instance, who dresses in women's clothing for the feel, the sexual thrill maybe, and for pure fun. Such a man doesn't think he is a woman, and doesn't want to live this way full time.

Albert and Hubert in the story if they lived as men full time were then transgendered. Such people in this day and age can change their names, live, get jobs, get married etc completely in the opposite to their birth gender. It is not legally required that they have any medical treatment, hormones or surgery. A lot DO have treatment (hormones at the very least), but that is not necessarily required by law as it is right now. A lot of such people identify themselves as transsexuals and the difference between transsexual and transgendered is often debated. They are however very different to transvestites.

It is not made known in the story if Albert or Hubert would ever want to go back to living as women. The scene on the beach sees them experimenting, and it gave them very different feelings, but that doesn't mean they wanted to be women full time again.

Take Hubert for example, he was happily married and his wife treated him as male. Yes if they were just lesbians in that time then this may be the only method they'd have of living together in such a way, but it seemed to me Hubert's wife was happy with Hubert the way he was. If a genetically born female today starts to live full time as a male, gets married to a female, and they are both happy that way, then this is a straight relationship. One is female and the other living as male. If it happens now, it could happen then and be quite straightforward with Hubert being happy in his role and his life. He didn't seem desperate to live as a woman again. Probably because he was happy being the man he'd become.

With Albert, his deepest desires and wishes are made known. He wanted to settle down and own a shop and have a wife. It clearly wasn't that he'd make a pile of money so that he could run off somewhere else and live as a wealthy woman. In his fantasies he is still male, which would be explained today as being a transsexual.

[–] tallard 12 years ago

Transvestite is certainly not limited to "for pleasure"! Transgenders say they "feel" like they're the other sex "inside", it's an entirely different concept than someone passing as the other sex to survive in life. Had that society not been as backwards, there would have been no need for living a man's life.

***So I've seen 4 movies/wk in theatre for a 1/4 century, call me crazy?**

[–] CocktailQueen 12 years ago

Uhhh you don't need to be "medically altered" in other to be transexual. There are many trans women with penises, and many trans men with vaginas. Albert was the latter.

[–] la_cinematheque 11 years ago

Good post! There seems to be so much misunderstanding going around these boards. Not to mention way too much use of female pronouns to describe Albert and Hubert.

I supposed this movie is a bit confusing for someone who doesn't already understand what it is to be transgender. It doesn't really tackle the topic head on, and it's set in a time when the characters themselves could not have fully understood the subject. To a degree, that inabilty to wrap your head around what it means to be transgender and what kind of life you can have is Albert's whole struggle, but he never really gets any answers. So, neither does an uneducated viewer.

At least, it seems to be opening up discussions.

[–] yusef-ghanima 11 years ago

what ever same crap