I like Richard III. Always have. So I'm really loving his depiction in this show but ..... spoilers for those who know jack about the Plantagenets, this means that the ending will probably be super depressing.
Any other Richard-sympathizers out there? What say you? Should I finish the series or bail out now, having seen his coronation?
ps not sure I can get into the Anne-as-a-harpy depiction.
It rather depends on whether your crush on RIII requires him to walk away from Bosworth alive (nope) or whether it makes him sleeping with his niece acceptable to you - because according to Phillipa Gregory that's exactly what he did, and at Bosworth no less.
And you need to get used to the Anne As Harpy deal because in order to exonerate him from any hint of responsibility for the disappearance of his nephews, he becomes the hen pecked victim of his wife, his mother and anyone else who wants to tell him what to do.
I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.
"because according to Phillipa Gregory that's exactly what he did, and at Bosworth no less. "
From where did she pull that one?! And that was NOT in the episode I watched.
So does Gregory really believe that?!
A boy's best friend is his mother.
- Psycho (1960)
I don't know whether it's in her book, but it was in the episode as aired in the US.
And she starts from the position that RIII and EoY were lovers - in the physical sense - in The White Princess. What she goes on to do in that book I'll leave you to read for yourself.
I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.
And that was NOT in the episode I watched.
the Richard and Anne sex scene
"It was pretty hot too *fans self* as long as you ignored the whole uncle and niece thing and the unlikelihood that she showed up at Bosworth field. "
Let me guess, 9 months to the day after Bosworth, Elizabeth secretly gives birth to Richard's daughter, Incesta, who is immediately taken from her and whisked away to grow up, live and die in hiding in a cloistered convent in Flanders.
I wouldn't put it past PG. Just change the child's name to something non-cheeky, like Cecily (BTW, what a gorgeous name that is, IMO).
(BTW, if it's a boy, OBVIOUSLY, Margaret kills it. If someone dies in this story and they were an obstacle to Henry Tudor, *especially* a male obstacle, it goes without saying that Margaret did it.)
A boy's best friend is his mother.
- Psycho (1960)
(BTW, if it's a boy, OBVIOUSLY, Margaret kills it. If someone dies in this story and they were an obstacle to Henry Tudor, *especially* a male obstacle, it goes without saying that Margaret did it.)
or whether it makes him sleeping with his niece acceptable to you - because according to Phillipa Gregory that's exactly what he did, and at Bosworth no less.
But "Tudor propaganda" used what were contempraneous roumours and suspicions, things that were circulating during Richard's lifetime, and which played a role in the abandonment of him by much of the nobility that had hitherto supported him.
Henry VII's firstborn did not die young, and even Arthur had reached majority. If you're talking about legitimate offspring, Richard's son died young; Henry VIII's son made it to the throne.
Three generations and 5 monarchs, one of whom made her mark pretty emphatically I think.
In any case, whatever your opinions of RIII as matinee idol as opposed to ruthless medieval king, he changes in this from doe eyed romantic (see thread on squealing with joy when he declares himself to Anne) to spineless idiot who will screw his (unmarried) niece. Not romantic, not at all honourable, horrible to medieval sensibilities, bodice ripping nonsense.
Gregory goes on to carry out the most astonishing hatchet job on Henry VII in The White Princess, so completely at odds with what is known about Henry and Elizabeth that I'm not sure why she even bothered to use their names.
I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.
But "Tudor propaganda" used what were contempraneous roumours and suspicions,
Gregory goes on to carry out the most astonishing hatchet job on Henry VII in The White Princess,
He was an outsider from the North and unused to the political maneuverings of the South. Lacking a political or personal network, Richard would be particularly vulnerable to rumor-mongering.
Finally, the person who benefited the most was Henry Tudor and he had the most motive.
lol, for someone like me that's an inducement to read.
I was predisposed to like Henry VII for her sake. However, he got the throne by right of conquest, not by law or legitimate succession and he's not a particularly admirable person so ..... meh.
She turns all the men into rapists but she really turned Henry VII into a monster, didn't she?
shareShe turns all the men into rapists but she really turned Henry VII into a monster, didn't she?
Henry VIII's first-born son did NOT make it to the throne. He didn't even make it out of infancy.
On New Year's Day 1511, Queen Katherine of Aragon gave birth to a baby boy at Richmond Palace, named Henry after his father. She'd had one miscarriage already, but this baby was strong and healthy and full-term, and they'd only been married a year and a half. There was every reason to hope that this boy would not only live to reign, but that he would have younger brothers.
The young prince (often remembered as the "New Year's boy") was promptly given his own household away from court. When he was not quite two months old, in the middle of a lavish tournament celebrating his birth, a messenger arrived to report that the baby had died in his cradle.
Later in life, Henry would say it was the cruelest blow he was ever dealt.
Katherine would go one to give birth to one more healthy child, Princess Mary, in February 1516, but other than that one success, her obstetrical history was a litany of stillbirths, miscarriages and disappointment.
Henry wouldn't have another (legitimate) son until 1537, and he would be named Edward, not Henry as one might have expected. Clearly the King had not forgotten that first son.
I maintain that if the New Year's boy have lived to adulthood Henry would never had annulled his marriage to Katherine, never would have broken with the Pope and declared himself head of the English church, and Britain might still be a Catholic country today.
Henry VIII's first-born son did NOT make it to the throne. He didn't even make it out of infancy.
I maintain that if the New Year's boy have lived to adulthood Henry would never had annulled his marriage to Katherine, never would have broken with the Pope and declared himself head of the English church, and Britain might still be a Catholic country today.
A bit of small karmic redress to weigh in against all the Tudor and Shakespearian propaganda
You must finish. That way, you'll be all set for The White Princess series that should be coming soon.
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