Richard said, "But I will be a true husband...because I love you?" I couldn't help but clap and squeal during that scene. Did anyone else have that reaction?
shareSquealing? No, I'm a grown up.
I'm the clever one; you're the potato one
Yes! It's actually my favorite moment of the whole series, so it's that more important to remember the happiness when everything starts to turn to *beep* afterwards
shareAnd it definitely doesn't hurt that the actor portraying Richard is beyond attractive. I thought so the first time I saw him in the first episode. He definitely wouldn't have to twist my arm for marriage. LOL!!!
shareEasy Tiger!!!!!
shareReminds me of a comment I read from someone a few weeks ago on youtube......."meet me in the garden....I'll be the one wearing no clothes" HILARIOUS!
shareHa ha good for you, you're not alone as lots of people in the UK had the same reaction several weeks ago when this episode was shown. This show is after all entertainment so it's good to see you're enjoying it so much!.
shareLOL!!! All jokes aside, I really do enjoy the show. It's really gotten me interested in learning about this time, which I really knew nothing about before. I absolutely look forward to each new episode.
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The Anne "do you love me?" thing was beyond epic too :)
shareI definitely think that scene in the garden is my favourite. It's so adorable and cute and very romantic.
And I love Anne's reaction to his proposal too. She's totally knocked for six and it's so well acted from both of them.
"Do you love me, Anne," was my favorite scene too, beyond even the proposal in the snow. I am just really happy that a more positive treatment of Richard and Anne is seeing the light of day. Not that anything isn't more positive than Shakespeare's Richard III. That play is so over the top that its main value in my view is that it lets actors display their ability to emote.
I read that Aneurin Barnard was in the middle of shooting the series when they found Richard III's skeleton. He had decided that the hunchbacked Richard was a Shakespearian myth, so he was "playing it straight." When the skeleton had scoliosis, he flipped and called his sister, a physiotherapist. She told him at least Richard was not a hunchback, he just would have had one shoulder higher than the other. But he certainly had a nice back here! Richard as a warrior, but still sweet 19 year old, gets the reward of marrying his childhood sweetheart. And a much different wedding night for Anne than her first one. Loved it.
I think this whole series underscores that marriage is way too intimate to treat as a business transaction.
I'm totally with you about the differences in the wedding nights. When I saw Anne and Richard's love scene on their wedding night, I said to myself, "This is how it should be."
Also, Edward of Lancaster had moments that made me so angry. His wedding night with Anne was one of them for sure. The other moment was when Anne told Margaret of Anjou that they should head west and beg for support, and Edward of Lancaster told her not to speak again. Ugh! However, I will say the fact that I got angry with the character means the actor did his job well. LOL!!!
I think there's also a real contrast between Richard and Anne's love and that lusty "wham bam thankyou maam" of Edward and Elizabeth....especially when you see Elizabeth discovering her husband with Jane Shore in the same episode...
I know people on here slag this show off but I think it's really well written, and acted.
I absolutely agree about the contrast that you mentioned. Richard and Anne's love scene was very sweet. Also, Richard was extremely gentle with Anne during that scene, unlike other male characters in their love scenes.
shareIt also contrasts with the wedding night of Isobel and George. Even if they loved each other later, George on their wedding night was almost bored, it was a duty to be completed for the sake of the rebellion, and Isobel realizing this is not a fairytale, she's just been chosen as the ideal pawn to play.
(not knowing that much about the Plantagenets and the War of the Roses times, I am speaking of the series as I've seen so far, not necc. of reality)
Good point, I'd forgotten about them!
shareI was more impressed with the booty shot we got.
Thank you for the fun fact!!! Trust me, I don't think anyone is gonna think of you as pervy. LOL!!!
shareI think you got the Edward and Elizabeth sex all wrong. He was just as tender with her. But that's to be expected if you were watching the BBC version since I understand they cut out all the sex scenes and left it to your imagination as to how it went down.
shareAbsolutely!!! When he asked her that, I had the same reaction that Anne did, which was, "What?" Haha!!!
shareI am enjoying this series too for the history bsdance! I knew nothing about it before also! Very interesting!
shareI did & I'm an adult (I think...lol). I love Richard & Anne. I think both actors are beyond amazing. I have a question. I am not familiar with this history. Do Richard & Anne have children and do they stay married for a long time? Thank you in advance for the information.
shareI'm just starting to learn these things myself, so I had to look it up. LOL. It looks like they got married in 1472 and she died in 1485. They had a son together, Edward of Middleham, Prince of Wales. Richard also had illegitimate children, John of Gloucester and Katherine Plantagenet. I hope this helps!
shareThat's right, the two illegitimate kids were BEFORE his marriage when he was a teenager (he and Anne were married at 19 and 15 respectively). Of the two children John ends up being bumped off by Henry Tudor (Henry VII) after being held in the Tower, (along with George and Isabel's son who was held there for years)....strange no "Princes in the Tower furore over that one!. Katherine appears to have been married but died young without children. And of course poor little Edward of Middleham dies suddenly as a boy too. There are no reports of illegitimate children or mistresses after they got married.
shareThank you so much for the information!!! I'm really learning a lot about these figures and time!!! Wow, Richard surely was a young father. That makes sense, though. People back then married young, had children young, and died young either in battle or due to illness. If I'm not mistaken, Margaret Beaufort gave birth to Henry VII at the age of 13. She also lived to be 66, so she was an exception to the "dying young" norm.
shareThank you all for the information. I am finding this history fascinating. I do not recall ever learning about the English history in school. I barely remember American history. Guess that says something. I have to say, the English Royals remind me of the Kennedy's of America. Way too many children named Edward, Richard, Henry, Margaret, Elizabeth, Anne, etc. The Kennedy's have Patrick, John, Robert, Rose, Christopher. Augh. Too many. I can't keep track of them.
shareI totally understand. The great thing about it is once you learn some of their titles, it gets a little easier to figure out who they're referring to. For example, Lord Warwick's name was Richard Neville, but they call him Warwick in the show because no one could keep up with all of the Richards. I read a post on here that said Queen Elizabeth had two sons called Richard, and that was also her father's name. I probably couldn't keep up with it all if not for the title references.
shareI think sometimes their young ages may explain some of their actions/decisions too. It's so easy to judge them with the benefit of age and 500 years of hindsight! When you think of how young Anne was when she went on that ship, got married off to Edward of Lancaster, lost her dad, got abandoned by her mother, got 'imprisoned' by her sister and brother in law....and finally got 'saved' by Richard....blimey poor girl, I can't help hoping they were happy together!
shareI definitely see your point. They didn't have the benefit of the experience we have today. I will say this: Anne did show some guts when Margaret of Anjou told Richard, "I will name you as my heir and make you the king. You can even have her." Anne replied with, "No. I am not yours to give now." Good for her!!! Also, if Edward of Lancaster was anything like he's portrayed, I can't say I wouldn't be at least somewhat relieved to be out of that marriage. Haha.
shareHa yes, after THAT marriage you'd really appreciate Richard! Mind you even without that marriage I'd appreciate Richard
shareRichard seems to have been an exception to men of his class, in that he took no mistresses and fathered no illegitimate children after his marriage to Anne. He fathered Katherine and John when he was still single and very young, but he openly acknowledged them both and supported them and their mothers all their lives. I believe he was a good and honorable man caught in circumstances beyond his control, and in a ruthless and bloody time we now can only imagine.
shareRichard seems to have been an exception to men of his class, in that he took no mistresses and fathered no illegitimate children after his marriage to Anne.
I believe he was a good and honorable man caught in circumstances beyond his control, and in a ruthless and bloody time we now can only imagine.
Richard's nephew, the future king, was raised by the Woodvilles, and had no love for his uncle. Richard would have power only until Edward V was crowned.....after that he was a man dancing on the edge of his own grave. This was completely outside his control.
shareI think you're right catey-49, Richard was the exception both in terms of his private life, and also the reforms he instigated for the benefit of the 'common man'. Ironically it's those reforms which may well have contributed to his downfall by alienating the rich and powerful magnates of the time. Given all the machinations that we now know were going on behind the scenes, then whatever he did, he was in a lose lose situation. The more you read/discover about him, the more you realise how little he deserves to be vilified....and how sad it is that his dynasty was replaced with Tudor tyranny and brutality. As we now know mean old, paranoid old Henry VII was just the start. If you haven't already read it, Annette Carson's "Richard III The Maligned King" is thoroughly well researched and written, and with masses of evidence puts the Richard haters firmly in their place!
sharehad no love for his uncle???
He was raised by his mother's family, and they disliked Richard.....how they felt about him is made clear by the fact that they took such immediate action to bring Edward to London and crown him. I think it's logical to assume the boy would have felt the same way. And Richard's arrest of Anthony Rivers, and Elizabeth's flight into sanctuary with her other children, certainly wouldn't have helped.
shareI think it's logical to assume the boy would have felt the same way
By all accounts, the Woodvilles only started showing open hostility to Richard when he intercepted Edward V's party on the way to Ludlow. There is nothing particularly out of the ordinary or logic-defying by choosing to hurry the coronation of a new king during a tumultuous era when kings and noblemen were being booted out of power willy-nilly.
However, there IS something suspicious about having lunch with said new king's guardians then suddenly turning on them and having them executed. There IS something suspicious about suddenly dragging out the man who informed you of the "secret" trip from Ludlow to London in the first place out of a council meeting and beheading him without even a shadow of a trial. And there IS something suspicious about locking up the new king and his brother in the Tower of London, never to be seen or heard of again.
I'm sorry, but Ricardian logic is not earth logic (don't even get me started on this "he invented bail" bulls**t).
"To you, Baldrick, the Renaissance was just something that happened to other people, wasn't it?"
It is true. Edward V had no reason to hate Richard before his near abduction on his way to London.
But why on earth would you alienate yourself from the future king by executing his uncle and half brother unless you genuinely felt threatened by them? Because the plan is to steal the crown from the get go?
It is possible that Richard hold the Wydevilles responsible for his brother George death and thought there was a conspiracy against him.
Also I wanted to ask, IIRC they say in the Daughter of Time that Hastings was not beheaded on the spot but days later. Is there any truth in that?
But why on earth would you alienate yourself from the future king by executing his uncle and half brother
after that he was a man dancing on the edge of his own grave. This was completely outside his control.
Well, I'm a guy and it sounded like bullsh-- to me.
shareWhy do you say that, GMonhey? I would like to hear a guy's point of view on this.
shareTeesgirl1 hit it on the head:
"Yeah but never forget "chicks love that sh*t"! [] "
1) This guy Richard barely knows her, never even went out on a date with her and he's proclaiming his love for her? Based on what? Eye contact?
2) She's no ordinary girl. She's a Neville who stands to inherit great wealth and power if she finds a husband which leads me to my next point:
3) Richard is a very smart player of the game. One he never answers questions unless he knows what you're thinking. How many times has he returned an inquiry with "What do you think I'm....." Or even to Anne, "Why do you think I'm helping you?" He wants to be ahead of you. Knowing what his options are based on what his opponent is going to do boosts his chances of winning.
Now some of you may say, "No, he's different, he's not like that". PLEASE!
4) This guy comes from a very ambitious and power hungry family. Both his older brothers want to be King and both have shown to have no boundaries in acquiring this ambition. His uncle or cousin Warwick has betrayed a king and then went right back to bending his knee to said King in order to regain power. Come on, man. Wake up!
Lastly:
Anne is very variable at this stage. She's lost her father, her sister(not by death but you get my point) and mother is on her death bed. Compound with the fact she's about to lose everything her ancestors and father have worked very hard to have. Saying something as cheesy as "I'll be a better husband because I love you" works wonders to a person in her position. Any other girl in a better state of mind would laugh at that line. Well, expect for some of you here.
These are the reasons why I cringed at that line. Laughed out loud when Anne fell, hook and sinker, for it.
No, no, no and no...you've misunderstood me!
Yes we do "love that sh*t" hence the jumping for joy/swooning......BUT
In this case I think they genuinely did love each other :-
1) They'd spent years of their childhood together at Warwick's northern estates (Middleham, Barnard Castle etc) and therefore were familiar with each other.
2)Richard had to negotiate to get Anne, and gave up lots of titles to George in order to strike a deal to marry her.
3) They spent the next 13 years travelling together and sleeping in the same bed together (at a time when most couples of their status had separate bedchambers). In fact Richard was told NOT to sleep with her by his physicians just before she died. So he was obviously still sleeping with her despite the fact she clearly couldn't have any more children. In high status marriages of this era if a woman was barren then the bloke would usually just get a mistress.
4)There's no record of Richard having any mistresses after they were married, and not even any rumours of infidelity....in complete contrast to Edward! His two illegitimate children being born before the marriage.
5) There are reports that Richard openly wept at her funeral...even though public displays of emotion at that time were a bit of a no no for a king
So in a nutshell, though of course it helped that Anne was a high status eligible woman, there looks like there was love there too.
In terms of Richard being evasive when answering questions then I think that's just a device of the scriptwriters here, they've put a lot of ambiguity into all the dialogue/events to keep the viewers guessing and their interest levels up.
Well said Teesgirl! I do love the romance in lots of things, but with Anne and Richard history itself indicates it goes much further than that - a real love story. And I agree with all the reasons you give.
In fact, I can't help but compare Richard and Anne with Edward and Elizabeth. I'd argue that Edward and Elizabeth are meant to be the main couple of the show, but I've found more fans favouring Anne and Richard.
And I think it is because theirs is a better played out love story - they have history and backstory and we see them develop over time. I find that much easier to believe than the (lust) love at first sight with Edward and Elizabeth.
And I do think it's interesting that there's no reports of Richard having a mistress after he married Anne, but there's lots for Edward.
So yeah - whilst a lot of viewers will love this stuff, there is definitely lots of historical basis that it was real between Anne and Richard.
Thank you so much for your post!!! You make good and valid points, and I really appreciate your opinion!!! I'm on the Richard train myself, but it's good to hear opinions that are different than mine!!! Thank you again!!!
shareYou know, in the beginning, when I saw the exchange (when Richard was 'rescuing' her:
Richard: Do you love me Anne?
Anne (staring): ...
Richard: Do you love me... and King Edward?
Anne: Yes.
Or something like that... can't remember exactly.
I was like, "Awww."
And then later, the scene in the garden... which I thought was really sweet and cute, but after a few seconds, I was wondering if he really loved her.
No one ever really knows the motives of the characters, so I wasn't certain whether Richard's feelings are sincere. He does come from a very ambitious political family, and he might be after her fortune. But then, they knew each other since they were kids and they would sometimes exchange glances at court. Anne was indeed very vulnerable and susceptible. George was like, "So, did you tell her you love her? Was it as easy as that?" (or something like that). But then, he seemed very tender towards her, so maybe he did love her and also married her for her fortune...
Yeah but never forget "chicks love that sh*t"!
shareI couldn't agree with you more!!! He's definitely extremely attractive!!! I look forward to seeing him in other projects in the future!!!
shareYeah he's already got quite a few in the pipeline. He plays Lord Darnley in the new Mary Queen of Scots film, and I suspect after TWQ will get lots more offers!
shareUh-oh. Henry, Lord Darnley was a historical character I've never been fond of. Hopefully Aneurin Barnard's portrayal can soften my attitude towards him.
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