MovieChat Forums > No Time to Die (2021) Discussion > Can someone progressive please explain s...

Can someone progressive please explain something to me:

posted 5 years ago by TheHungryHippo (821)
142 replies | jump to latest

Why is it controversial when a non-white character is played by someone of a different ethnicity (ie. Naomi Scott in Aladdin or the characters in Shamalyan's Last Airbender, whitewashing???) yet it's OK for a white character to be played by someone of a different ethnicity (certain people have been calling for a Black Bond for years despite the fact that the literary character is White)?

What's the rule? Do the characters and actors have to be the same race or don't they? Or does this rule only apply to certain ethnicities (hypocritical)?

Just to be straight I don't really care that much about race, I didn't care that Moneypenny is now black (she did a great job), I didn't care that Harvey Dent was black in Tim Burton's Batman, what I don't like is that it's controversial going one way yet progressive and inspirational the other way. I personally wouldn't care if Bond himself were black as long as he played the part consistently with the source material, he at least sounded British (Lazenby was Australian) because Bond is by definition British, and that he truly was the best choice for the role (I don't want a black actor to play Bond just so we can say we had a black Bond).

[–] Dudestein1958 (153) 5 years ago

What makes a fictional character white or black or anything else? Because the original actor playing a character was white, the character is now and forever white? That's awfully narrow-minded and worse yet unimaginative.

There was a time when all heroes in the movies were white men. Should those characters forever be played by white men from now to eternity? When talking about Bond, what is it about his character that is strictly reserved to a white man?

It's not a matter of progressive or conservative, but unfortunately, some people can only see the world through narrow politically divisive viewpoints. I get a laugh at how we progressives are forcing a liberal world view on all you poor and innocent conservatives by putting people of color into roles originally reserved by white men. It is your problem to work out. The majority of people on earth are NOT white men and movies can now reflect the people in the audience.

[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

I flat out said numerous times that I didn't care that Moneypenny is black, she did a great job. What I have a problem with is the double standard that this can't go the other way apparently and casting a black actor for the sole reason of having a black actor is moronic. You should cast the actor who is best for the role and can portray him consistently with the source material. If you casted a woman however the character can no longer be James Bond and therefore the series would start to focus on a character who isn't James Bond therefore it will no longer be the James Bond Series, if that's the case you'd might as well just create a completely different franchise.

[–] Dudestein1958 (153) 5 years ago

From what I understand the new cast is only getting the '007' code designation, not the name James Bond. How is that a problem?

[–] Dudestein1958 (153) 5 years ago

Since Felix Leiter hasn't been mentioned, the casting of a black man to play this part hasn't been brought up. From back to the 1960's Felix has been often recast.

[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

Actually i mentioned Felix Leiter and I liked Jeffrey Wright’s performance i also don’t believe he was casted just so they could say we had a black Felix leiter. And if the series focuses on someone other than James Bond then it’s not the James Bond series anymore so they’d might as well just stop the series entirely and make a new series about a different superspy which has nothing to do with James Bond . I’ll say this again if the best actor for the role is black I have no problem , I have a problem with casting a black actor for the sake of having a black actor(much like how I shouldn’t be casted just because I’m American yet I can’t do a british accent). And I don’t buy that there aren’t any roles for black actors , there are plenty of famous black actors and the Bond series has had plenty of great performances by black actors. The Bond series however is NOT a quota system.

[–] Dudestein1958 (153) 5 years ago

Do you feel the same with women playing roles in remakes like Ghostbusters or Oceans 11(renamed Oceans 8)?

Let me say I DO have a problem with these remakes. In these cases, it very clearly is casting roles specifically to put a woman in a role made popular by a man. These remakes failed on their own merits, or more specifically their lack of merits.

Do you have a problem with Sherlock Holmes being cast in contemporary settings in both 'Elementary' and 'Sherlock'? Both breaking with the written source material.

Finally, you said you had a problem with non-Brits playing Brits, but the TV is full of Brits who play Americans. Is that okay?

[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

I never saw those movies so I really can’t say, as for Brits playing non brits maybe I should rephrase If the actor could do a convincing British accent I’d be ok with it, Lazenby was Australian and his accent was not the problem with his performance.

[–] RoboReCop (2899) 5 years ago

Ghostbusters 2016 was meant to establish a great film, but to push an AGENDA.

Hollywood, including all the global 'high end' film/tv industries have started to punch Leftist Activism into Sith Gear.

It's just plain Leftist "activism", which has nothing to do with females. Leftist don't care about anybody, nor anything but POWER... in which is what they seek.

[–] Dudestein1958 (153) 5 years ago

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[–] RoboReCop (2899) 5 years ago

The Right is merely an opposition to the authoritarian, power hungry 'idealistic' Left.

Historically, and while "in the current year", "The Right" seek to diminish centralized governments, reduce governmental control, and grow/maintain individual liberties, powers, and freedom... the exact opposite of Leftist philosophy, instruction, and action.

EDIT:... your remarks about Ghostbusters 2016 is a 10/10 in my book :)

[–] Dudestein1958 (153) 5 years ago

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[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

The left seems to be the ones preoccupied with race, seems to be it’s the SJW progressives that are racist. Maybe they should be sent away to sensitivity training.

[–] Jproof (40) 5 years ago

Because for decades and decades there was only one non-white movie star (Poitier) -- so there are decades worth of under-representation to make up for.

[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

There are plenty of famous black actors today, there is nothing to stop a black actor from being successful and the James Bond Series is not responsible for making reparations for discrimination, nice try.

[–] Jproof (40) 5 years ago

They're not responsible for it but they can CHOOSE to.

[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

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[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

The James Bond series is not about atoning god past injustices, it’s about making good entertainment and casting someone who may not be the best choice for the role is going to make it less good. If you want to fight a cause go for it, but the James Bond series is the not the right medium to convey that message

[–] cyberbob (3488) 5 years ago

It's not up to you, Hippo. You can vote with your wallet, but you are just one vote

It's ultimately up to Eon. They aren't FORCED to make "reparations", but they are allowed to cast whoever they want, including a black person (or any other race)

You don't speak for all white people. You don't speak for all Bond fans. Like you said, it's just entertainment. Getting this bent out of shape over who's going to play a fictional spy character is such a useless waste of energy. The world changes and it never goes backward, you're trying to swim against the current of a river

[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

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[–] charliekelly (1018) 5 years ago

"The world changes and it never goes backward, you're trying to swim against the current of a river."

Not really. It's more like straight white males are just refusing to let the other swimmers drown us in the river, and that makes us "bigots", "racists" and "incels".

[–] cyberbob (3488) 5 years ago

Boo hoo. They took away James Bond and The Little Mermaid. I don't think drowning is a severe enough metaphor. More like you're being waterboarded for 24 straight hours

[–] charliekelly (1018) 5 years ago

I actually don't care about these two specific issues, at all. They could make her black, and call her Jane Bond if they wanted, and I honestly wouldn't give one fuck. This is about the bigger picture. This is about the public condoning and applauding of recent racist comments from the likes of Jordan Peele, Tessa Thompson, and Mindy Kailing. This mentality is of course widespread, but they are just the most popular current examples that get applauded for their racism. That is the "drowning". Forget about super spies and mermaids, bud. Wake up.

[–] cyberbob (3488) 5 years ago

I think their comments are annoying too, but putting up with obnoxious, smarmy liberals has always been a part of being a movie buff

Before this current generation we had guys like Oliver Stone, Sean Penn, Jane Fonda, George Clooney, Robert Redford, etc.

It's not like they ever managed to turn this country pacifist or socialist. They talk a lot, but have very little influence in the grand scheme of things

I think you'd have to be pretty paranoid to think that white people throughout the country will suffer in a significant way because of what's going on in Hollywood

I personally don't care if white people get less movie roles. I do care if I see cringey SJW jargon or speeches showing up in dialogue and writing, but I know that that's not going to stop. That's why I stopped watching shows like Black Mirror

I don't think Jordan Peele is racist. He casts white people in supporting roles in his movies and I think his mom is white. I don't think Brie Larson is sexist, I think she's just arrogant. The comments that these people make in the media, IMO, is just virtue signaling. They take a strong social justice stance 'cause they know that will get them adoration from the media and their peers

Do I find them insufferable? Absolutely. Do I think they will significantly affect my life in any way? Nah

[–] charliekelly (1018) 5 years ago

Good points. And, I agree with almost all of them, except for: "I think you'd have to be pretty paranoid to think that white people throughout the country will suffer in a significant way because of what's going on in Hollywood". And that Peele isn't racist. Yes, his mother is white and his wife is (I believe) Italian, which makes his racism even more sad and disgusting. Oh, and Brie is definitely sexist lol. "They take a strong social justice stance 'cause they know that will get them adoration from the media and their peers..." - This is where you almost get it. You're exactly right in this. It is all to sell tickets to idiots, but their sales pitch is how they actually feel. They say to themselves, "I can spew my racist and/or sexist ideologies, out loud, and actually get paid for it!? Hell yeah, I'm 'woke". You're telling me that stupid people don't see this and say, "Pretty, rich people think this. I should too." ? It happens every day of the week, from which handbag to buy to which race/sex to hate.

I don't think I, or anyone else, is paranoid on the subject, at all. In, say, 1980, I would have fully agreed with this comment as well, but with modern technology and the internet, these types of celebrities have a new found sense of power and influence that, in all honesty, hasn't been around long enough for us to see the major effects of it. Though, I strongly feel that we are at a stage where the immediate minor effects are glaringly obvious. Back when I was in grade school, I went to a school that was roughly 60% white, 30% black and 10% Hispanic (mostly of Guatemalan and Mexican descent). I had friends of all races, and no one really ever seemed to think much about it. One might say that that is just something inherently in children, and that may be so, but even their parents treated me kindly and with respect. I went to sleepovers, had their parents as coaches, and minority employees were always kind. Never even a cross word.

Now days, it's just not the same. Every few months, I go back to the town that I went to school in and to say that things have changed is an understatement. I strongly feel that celebrities and news organizations condition or brainwash people, or at least attempt to. Now, am I just insane and letting that shit get to my head? Possibly, but I don't think that most insane people are conscious of the fact that they could be. So, I doubt it.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

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[–] charliekelly (1018) 5 years ago

"Here come the police again."
"It's okay 'cause they're my friends."
"They like me."
"They gave me this train."

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

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[–] RoboReCop (2899) 5 years ago

It's the current year XXXX...

Because you've asked the question, you are a racist, xenophobic hate-filled person...

[–] tom8 (3036) 5 years ago

how to identify a racist:

https://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/11102014031976.jpg

[–] charliekelly (1018) 5 years ago

Poor Walter. I'd like to laugh, but the accuracy of such things now just makes me immensely sad.

[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

Tom what is truly sad is that is the exact same way a lot of people in this country now think.