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Do you think Patti is real/ghost? or just imagined in Kevin's mind?

posted 8 years ago by Paul_Ke
10 replies | jump to latest

Here's what I found that supports Patti being "real" and/or a "ghost/spirit":

1) She knew exactly where Kevin's lost cell phone was. ...Then again, a poster once pointed out to me that Kevin may have remembered in his subconscious mind where he dropped the phone, and that's why the "illusion" of Patti was able to lead him to it.

2) This one is harder to poke holes in, I think: After Kevin finds his lost cell phone, he starts to climb the ladder, but Patti says to him: "Don't get into that car!" When Kevin reaches the top, a car is pulling up, and John is inside and tells Kevin to get in. Kevin gets in and later finds himself in a very dangerous situation. ...So if Patti is not real, then how did she know a car was coming? and how did she know it would be bad if Kevin got inside the car?

(SPOILERS)

Here's what I found that supports Patti is just a hallucination in Kevin's mind:

Patti told Kevin that she knew what happened to the girls and that all he had to do was ask. Later, Patti tells Kevin that the girls departed. But at the end of Season 2, we learn that the girls didn't depart. Patti, like Kevin, believed incorrectly that the girls had departed, so does this prove Patti is not some all-knowing ghost, but just a product of Kevin's psychosis? Or is Patti real and just lying to Kevin here?

Thoughts by anyone? Anything to add?

[–] Trendrick 8 years ago

Here's what I found that supports Patti being "real" and/or a "ghost/spirit":

1) She knew exactly where Kevin's lost cell phone was. ...Then again, a poster once pointed out to me that Kevin may have remembered in his subconscious mind where he dropped the phone, and that's why the "illusion" of Patti was able to lead him to it.

2) This one is harder to poke holes in, I think: After Kevin finds his lost cell phone, he starts to climb the ladder, but Patti says to him: "Don't get into that car!" When Kevin reaches the top, a car is pulling up, and John is inside and tells Kevin to get in. Kevin gets in and later finds himself in a very dangerous situation. ...So if Patti is not real, then how did she know a car was coming? and how did she know it would be bad if Kevin got inside the car?

(SPOILERS)

Here's what I found that supports Patti is just a hallucination in Kevin's mind:

Patti told Kevin that she knew what happened to the girls and that all he had to do was ask. Later, Patti tells Kevin that the girls departed. But at the end of Season 2, we learn that the girls didn't depart. Patti, like Kevin, believed incorrectly that the girls had departed, so does this prove Patti is not some all-knowing ghost, but just a product of Kevin's psychosis? Or is Patti real and just lying to Kevin here?

Thoughts by anyone? Anything to add?

Patty killed herself...Kevin and Matt buried her...Kevin turned himself in...the police retrieved her body.

So...

I'm going to go with "just imagined in Kevin's mind"...he is seeing dead people.

After all Patti is...

Undeniably and reliably dead!

And...

She is not only merely dead; she is really most sincerely dead?

"This moment was always looking for me."

[–] Paul_Ke 8 years ago

I know that she's dead, of course. But one could make the argument that Kevin's dad can see and hear dead people, so perhaps Kevin can too.

Before you tell me that Kevin's dad is crazy too, let me point out that he somehow showed up just at the right place and just right time to save Jill from suffocating in the locked refrigerator (in Season 1). So if "the voices" didn't tell him where and when to save Jill, how was he able to do that?

If you believe Kevin is just imagining Patti in his mind, how did she know that a car was coming and that Kevin shouldn't get inside it?

Also, Dean the dog-killer seemed to be listening to "voices" as well in Season 1. How do you explain that? Is he just another crazy person? Or does he have the same ability to see and hear dead people like Kevin and his dad?

[–] ArchonNianlith 8 years ago

Since it's TV he could probably see dead people, but just saying that everything on the show (well a lot of it) can be scientifically explained - even the people disappearing. Could be something similar to spontaneous human combustion, who knows.

He could just have had a hunch/bad feeling about getting in the car, we do this all the time. We often think it's crazy how we just "know" certain things with no explanation when in reality our senses and brain is picking up stuff we don't realize it's picking up.

Regarding the phone, he could've simple seen it in the corner of his eye, dismissed it as something else or got distracted but his brain has kept the image even though he isn't looking at it. So when he finally finds it it's mind-blowing to him.

Remember when Laurie says "Her husband Levi? I told you about him" He might not have been listening but his brain stored it anyway.

Reminds me of a woman who called the police after seeing the news. Apparently a person had gone missing and this woman suddenly had a vision. She called the police and they found the body. Turns out this woman had, without even knowing it, overheard a conversation between the killers about the body, although she had no recollection of this event.

Another thing, that scene when Patti talks to Laurie (when she's a shrink and Patti is a patient) she's talking about the world ending. This is a very common theme among people who are depressed, to the point where they are having constant dreams about death and the world ending. So a lot of the "magic" supernatural things we are seeing is psychological problems magnifying after the rapture. Suddenly there is a lot of people can see and talk to the dead, and lots of talk about God and healing, even Wayne s's hugging seems to be a placebo effect.Now that the rapture has crashed their logical senses, there are no rules. Whatever you believe seems to be the truth.

[–] silvertron 8 years ago

The points you bring up on both sides are valid, and my opinion is there's no definitive answer on whether she's a ghost or just in Kevin's head. And I'm fine with that ambiguity.

I suspect people who want hard and specific answers are very frustrated by this show.

[–] SaliceMcD 8 years ago

I think she's just a product of his psychosis. But I thought the way "she" was addressed as a problem was quite interesting. Laurie tells Kevin that Patti stays away while she (Laurie) is around Kevin because she knows that L could prove she isn't real. Of course, Laurie knows she isn't, and doesn't mean that Patti has literally stayed away, but that Kevin's subconscious doesn't "summon" her appearance to him because *it* is protecting its creation. (Hopefully that made at least a little sense. L talked about Patti to K in terms he could most readily accept. As mental health professionals aren't supposed to support or reinforce patients' delusions, she was walking a fine line.)

Virgil's plan only addressed one symptom of Kevin's psychosis, not the disease itself.

[–] Paul_Ke 8 years ago

I think she's just a product of his psychosis.

That's fine, but how did Patti know that a car was coming and that Kevin shouldn't get inside it, if she's just a product of his psychosis? And how did Kevin come back from the dead, after being "dead" for an extended period of time, if all of this is just playing out in his mind?

[–] Trendrick 8 years ago

That's fine, but how did Patti know that a car was coming and that Kevin shouldn't get inside it, if she's just a product of his psychosis? And how did Kevin come back from the dead, after being "dead" for an extended period of time, if all of this is just playing out in his mind?

It's not a super-paved, slick highway. It's a road, out in the middle of nowhere, it is late at night, and it is quiet...sound travels. (We live close to a main thoroughfare. But, it is so quiet at night that when I watch TV I have to turn the volume down very low otherwise it sounds as if I’m blasting the thing. In fact, it is so low at night, that if I leave it at that same volume during the day…with all the noise and traffic and whatever…I can’t hear it at all.)

So, it's no big mystery; unconsciously, Kevin HEARD the car approaching. By the process of elimination...he is a police officer AND a father...who would be the most interested, the person most likely to come to THAT SPOT, at that time of night...JOHN--the last person Kevin wants to see. So, that don't-get-in-the-car-warning to himself makes plenty of sense.

The brain processes a whole lot of information, and puts together a whole lot of 2+2s; sometimes long before we are able to pull it forward consciously.

You ever walk through a store where a song is playing...paying no conscious attention to the song, whatsoever? But, then you start singing it hours later AND ONLY THEN realize that you heard it earlier at the store?

You have five senses...they are working ALL THE TIME; even when you mind is on something else, your senses are STILL recording everything. Which is one of the reasons Hypnosis works.

"This moment was always looking for me."

[–] tb-sch 8 years ago

I like those explanations. It is all about trying to cope with reality. I kind of missed that tone in the second season towards the end, where things just get supernatural.

[–] skylinedrive94 8 years ago

I'm surprised no one brought up the fact that "Ghost" Patti has a total different accent.

[–] 8 years ago

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