MovieChat Forums > The Forest (2016) Discussion > **This is so much more worse than whitew...

This is so much more worse than whitewashing

posted 9 years ago by Aries_Girl84
170 replies | jump to latest

-----TAKEN FROM THE LOVE LIFE OF AN ASIAN GUY (facebook) because everyone needs to know-----

**This Is So Much Worse Than Whitewashing**
*Why I'm Boycotting Hollywood's Newest Movie "The Forest"*

As an Asian-American, I am no stranger to seeing my people whitewashed on the silver screen. It happened in "The Conqueror" when John Wayne played Genghis Khan and it's scheduled to repeat in 2017 when Scarlett Johannson stars as as Major Motoko Kusanagi in "Ghost in the Shell."

But NONE of these films compares to the whitewashing in Hollywood's newest movie "The Forest." This is by far the most sickening, low-class piece of *beep* I have EVER seen. Before I talk about why this is possibly the worst whitewashed Asian movie in history, you NEED to understand the context of this story and what "Forest" this movie is referring to.

Here's the scoop.

West of Tokyo, Japan at the base of Mt. Fuji is a stretch of forest called Aokigahara. Aokigahara is known for its lush and green foliage that remains fertile all year long. Walk along the trails and you'll see petite trees that ebb and flow with the wind and a ground painted with a thick layer of furry moss. But underneath this excessive life, woven between the leaves and bushes, is the exact opposite of life: death.

For 30 years, residents of Japan have come to the Aokigahara forest to commit suicide. Most hang themselves, others overdose on medication, and a select few hide deep in the woods and force themselves into dehydration and starvation. Rotting corpses hang from the branches and skeletons with the clothes intact are scattered all around.

In Japan, suicide is a national crisis. While America ranks 50th in yearly suicide rates, Japan is at a chilling 17th place with an estimated 70 suicides per day. Some are pressured into suicide by the stress of Japan's overwhelming work culture while others do it because of unemployment. One major factor that isn't as highly recognized due to Japanese social stigma is depression and mental health.

Japan's rigorous culture of conformity heavily stigmatizes those with mental health issues. Many Japanese have grown content with suicide and see it as a "reasonable" solution. In reality, suicide is an epidemic and is the second leading cause of death in the country.

*Why "The Forest" Is Worse Than Regular Whitewashed Hollywood Films*

"The Forest," a HORROR movie which stars a BLONDE WHITE GIRL, takes place in Aokigahara. So not only did they whitewash a movie and sidestep the opportunity to cast an Asian actress, they COMPLETELY DISRESPECTED the fact that Suicide Forest IS A REAL *beep* PLACE where the Japanese go to end their life. And it's not like these suicides happened 400 years ago. This is happening RIGHT. NOW. Over one hundred bodies are found in Aokigahara every single year.

To put this into perspective, imagine if a white-skinned Italian film director made a movie about police brutality and anti-Black violence in America, filmed the movie in America, but cast non-Black Italian actors.

The ABSOLUTE WORST thing about this film is the erasure of mental health issues among Asians worldwide. The model minority myth doesn't just assume that Asians are universally intelligent or rich, it also assumes that we're able-bodied and don't suffer from mental illness.

NO ONE talks about mental health among Asians. NO ONE talks about disabled Asians. Why? Because everyone believes that we're rich and smart enough to access healthcare.

Newflash: WE AREN'T

"The Forest" had an opportunity to address an issue that is LITERALLY killing Japanese citizens by the thousands. An issue that would have hit home with many Asian-Americans who also suffer from mental illness and depression. But instead of reaching out and confronting a problem that exists and is on-going, Hollywood turned it into a horror movie and whitewashed its cast, thus dehumanizing not only Asians around the globe affected by mental health, but those who have already committed suicide.

Words cannot describe my level of disgust. Hollywood can dehumanize me all it wants. It can cast me as the Asian side-kick in every movie, emasculate me with characters who never get the girl, and erase my history by whitewashing Bruce Lee or Sesue Hayakawa. But why this? Why erase mental health among Asians? Why stab an already invisible community that is suffering in silence?

*beep* this movie.
*beep* whoever this *beep* actress is for taking on the role.
And *beep* *beep* *beep* Hollywood for *beep* ON those affected by mental health.

[–] helee81 9 years ago

I actually came here to make a similar point, but couldn't have done it so thoroughly. So I'll just say, "hear, hear!"

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[–] rupert-ian 8 years ago

It's 2016 and the cool thing to do now is cry racism, bigotry, profiling, xenophobia, transphobia, etc etc etc any time someone feels like the world doesn't bow to them and tell them how special they are.

Everyone is a victim. Nothing is ever anyone's fault. Every time a person does wrong it is because they were oppressed, discriminated against, and just not made to feel special enough.

It's disgusting, and the left-wing politicians love it and clinch to it in order to get more and more votes.

The only answer (according to these leftist SJW types) can be reverse discrimination, like that will fix anything.

Until people learn a simple concept called accountability, the world will just continue to fall into this "woe is me" left-wing hell hole, while the real evil people take advantage of it and continue their slaughter.

Just make sure you don't offend anyone, apparently nothing else matters.

[–] Jayne_Doe_Cobb 8 years ago

It's 2016 and the cool thing to do now is cry racism, bigotry, profiling, xenophobia, transphobia, etc etc etc any time someone feels like the world doesn't bow to them and tell them how special they are.

Everyone is a victim. Nothing is ever anyone's fault. Every time a person does wrong it is because they were oppressed, discriminated against, and just not made to feel special enough.

It's disgusting, and the left-wing politicians love it and clinch to it in order to get more and more votes.

The only answer (according to these leftist SJW types) can be reverse discrimination, like that will fix anything.

Until people learn a simple concept called accountability, the world will just continue to fall into this "woe is me" left-wing hell hole, while the real evil people take advantage of it and continue their slaughter.

Just make sure you don't offend anyone, apparently nothing else matters.

Refreshing to read such plain truth. Imo you should have added 'misogyny' to the list first btw., as it's what's being cried about the most nowadays. Anyway, I applaud you for this post.

[–] amigajoe 8 years ago

Sounds like YOU are the one that's whining here; especially since your reply has *absolutely nothing* to do the original post. You seem to just be looking for an opportunity to bleat about a subject you're entirely ignorant of. I don't even agree with OP (The Forest is just a backdrop for a cheap horror movie, not a documentary about mental illness in Japan) but pointless 'reply' is just stupid.

[–] Uninspired-imdb-ID 8 years ago

The OP is whining about an american horror movie featurng an american visiting japan,but not being cast by a Japanese actor. I think his reply is absolutely relevant.

Uva Uvam Vivendo Varia Fit

[–] Holder_Matador 8 years ago

I agree, I dont get how this is the same as the example he gave.

A more appropriate example would be that an Italian film director made a movie about an Italian visiting New York and cast an Italian actor. OMG that is so racist.

While I agree that there aren't enough good roles for minorities and women in movies I massively disagree with the concept of "whitewashing". It's called an adaptation, they're not trying to say other cultures dont exist, quite the opposite, they want these things (such as Ghost in the Shell) to be available to a wider audience. Hollywood versions of Ringu and Ju-on made the originals waaaay more popular in the western world.

"If God was a villain, he'd be me"

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[–] queentulawanda1 8 years ago

Perhaps no one cares about mental illness issues, but they should. And Aries-Girl84 isn't a sorry-for-themselves person. Can't you understand she's desperate for this problem to get publicity so that Japan can come out of the stone age about mental illness? For heaven's sake, they locked their Empress up in the palace because she was depressed, never allowing her to be seen!

The forest in this film just illustrates that the Japanese don't want to confront a national crisis. They'd rather ignore it and let the mentally ill solve the problem themselves by walking into a forest to die. Out of sight. This is how wild animals deal with death!!!

I must say here that I don't think the makers of this film didn't even have a clue about their action, and that's a pity. I'm not Asian, but those of you who haven't lived in Asia wouldn't understand this issue. In China, the mentally ill are put away. If you're a baby girl with ANY illness such as autism, Downs Syndrome or other handicaps like deafness or blindness- you're murdered, either by a Dying Room (Google it), or just starved or drowned. These atrocities are usually committed by a relative. You must be born "perfect" in order to be considered useful. And that's something worth putting on the silver screen if anything is.

[–] queentulawanda1 8 years ago

[–] onlyoncepal 8 years ago

Excuse you.

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[–] inuimari 9 years ago

As a Japanese guy (well this is my opinion only), I really don't care. Most Japanese people won't care either.
How is this any different to the Grudge? I'll admit that it's pretty weird that the protagonist will find so many people that speak fluent English-speaker in Japan.

[–] wartengu 8 years ago

Most people in Japan these days speak English. The younger generation want to be like Americans and speak English. The good thing about having a suicide forest, dead bodies make good compost for the plants. Too early to crack a smile?😀

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[–] Mattfinbell 8 years ago

inuimari
As a Japanese guy (well this is my opinion only), I really don't care. Most Japanese people won't care either.
How is this any different to the Grudge? I'll admit that it's pretty weird that the protagonist will find so many people that speak fluent English-speaker in Japan.

then why do people or mainly Japanese people hate Airbender? Since the characters look white or half white

HAHA yeah a lot of Japanese dont speak English so!

VariaIronhawk
The sister is living and working in Tokyo, soooooo, it really is not such a stretch. See, when you don't know the story, it's easy to criticize.

True but not in upper education

inuimari
This " LOVE LIFE OF AN ASIAN GUY " can F Off.

Just got banned from his site cuz I told a girl not to be so judgmental. He basically said that a lot of Asian parents beat their kid. Some posters said that that is abuse and they recanted how abusive their parents were. And this one chick went on dissing all those people who were saying it was abuse. I told her not to be so judgmental and then I got banned. I wasn't even using a swear word. And some of the posters were saying that people who are saying that spanking their kids is abuse where pu&&y white people. SMH.

He's okay with child abuse but is now complaining about mental health among Asians? WTF, man. Total hypocrite. According to this ridiculous site, "tone policing" is a real thing and it's bad. What the.... There's nothing wrong with being nice to people online and your assumed minority status (as in people assuming they are in a more disadvantaged class than those they are speaking to) does not make it okay for people to be a b1tch online.

yeah some chinese and Japanese can be anal about that

Kumagoro
The guy quoted in the original post is totally off base.

John Wayne as Genghis Khan is indeed bad, even beyond whitewashing, because it's a white man posing as Asian.

How many chinese actors were in the biz at that time?

Phoenix_07
Scarlett Johansson in Ghost in the Shell is NOT whitewashing, because she WON'T play Motoko Kusanagi in "yellowface" (or whatever it's called), she'll play a reworked character with a different name for the American version of the same story, just like Naomi Watts in The Ring. Remember when Kurosawa used to set Western literature in Japan using Japanese actors? Was that out of racism?

Whitewashing goes more into just putting someone in yellowface. Taking a Japanese movie and remaking it with White actors is pretty much whitewashing. Why is that necessary? Why can't Americans just watch something in its original form? Why is there a need for an 'American version'? Look at just about every remake of a Japanese/Asian movie. Do they have other races casted as the lead, or even have a role? Why was The Grudge even remade when it's also set in Japan with the same story?

Yet the Japanese worship whites all the time

why is it with Ernie Hudson who played one of the title characters never go back lash but the main character Justin got all of it?

Why do Japanese draw there characters white looking?

stephenmonachello
First off, Genghis Kahn played by John Wayne and Scarlet Johansson playing Major Motoko Kusanagi in "Ghost in the Shell are examples of "White Washing" as they are whites playing Asian characters just like Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's.

for gods sake they white wash the characters in Dragonball z and airbender Chinese and Japanese people dont have round eyes and wavy hair

This film is not an example. This about an American going to find their twin in a legendary suicide forest in Japan. This is not white washing. This is just someone wanting a bigger story about a horror film. According to you this could not happen, but it could only happen to someone of Japanese decent. This is just another example of people wanting to complain about something or everything.

but again why would all the japanese be speaking english and be more aggressive or more loud as the case may be

Space_Wolf57
No actual Japanese person would give a sh!t about this. Chances are the writer is a "whitewashed" Asian himself.

well which racial group cares about Dragonball Z Airbender the last avatar

to me it seems its always the Koreans no other oriental group cares so much

skane110-1
Have you ever heard of "The Last Samurai"? That is way worse than this. I mean, the Samurai are such a hugely important and sacred thing to the Japanese and they are legendary so, to have a white guy play the last samurai is so completely wrong and offensive.

Oh how is it offensive?

the book Young Samurai and Shogun are based off a white guy who got ship wrecked in Japan

Will Adams

http://www.hsv.com/writers/jeffog/wa-hist.htm

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&espv=2&q=Miura+Anjin&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgecTozC3w8sc9YSmrSWtOXmM04eIKzsgvd80rySypFFLjYoOyZLh4pTj1c_UNDFMsTTI0GKS4uRBcHgBRAQsESAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjCvKHqp_bLAhUBOCYKHQuYAEAQ6RMIgwEwEg&biw=1745&bih=828

google

Shogun Movie

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080274/trivia?ref_=tt_trv_trv

So no the last samurai is not white washed its factual get your facts straight

litcity
Artists are allowed to do whatever they want. Anything else would be censorship. White person wants to make movie about Indian culture, so what? Asian person wants to make a movie about black culture, so what? Art is about empathy. Can't think of a better way to achieve empathy than attempt to walk in someone else's shoes. Now, if they do a bad job of it, that's on the individual artist and it should never be used as an excuse to attempt to censor other artists.

Cultural marxists and those who have fallen for the toxic isolationism of "identity politics" need to get their heads out of their rear-ends and join the human race.

True but wouldnt you want to get some of it correct?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syhFQBL-Yao

this is scotts review of the film. I trust him since he has made a life in Japan and he is Japanese

Kinda the same story like William Adams

Noelitede
I do think it's *beep* up to pick a real social issue and make a horror film about it. I'm also kind of fed up of all this movies starring white actors unnecesarily, when the movie is set in Asia like The forbidden kingdom, The last samurai , The grudge (this last one is ridiculous, especially considering it's set in Japan as the original) but let's face it: they do that to make more people (mainly Americans) want to watch the movie, since they would probably not relate with the characters if they are from another ethnic background. I've never understood the logic of that, since having the characters being exactly like me is not something important for me, but that's how it works for some people anyway. But we cannot accuse this of whitewashing, since whitewashing is having white people playing as a non-white character. In this case it's white people representing white people. Also, we cannot accuse this of not taking on account mental illnesses on Asian people or thinking Asians are all wealthy and 100% mentally stable. Making fun of suicide in East Asians would be ignoring that, but it's not the case.
Trying to make a horror out of something that is real and is not OK is the main "crime" of this movie, in my opinion. It's going to be another forgotten horror movie anyway.

oh why? Japan would love to have white actors in Japanese roles since in Japan and china thats more excotic

Noelitede
What I mean is that this looks like the typical case of Hollywood taking advantage of something to profit from it without considering anything. Like "Yo, everyone on the internet is knowing about the suicide forest in Japan, how about we make a movie about it?". And of course, instead of making a drama that could make people think about the topic like Don't cry mommy did with the increasing rape rate in South Korea, they just made a horror to entertain, taking advantage of this issue.

isnt that the case for everything?

think of all the stuff we see in entertainment! all the owls hawks sound effects and in reality Birds of prey make no sound when there coming towards you. NONE

ElChompiras
You think Japan has it hard? Try living in Mexico. I know as I am.

well what Mexico like?

jajceboy
It's whitewashing only if it's an Asian character played by an white American actress. But there's no indication the character is Asian or Japanese, it seems that she in fact is an American. So what's the deal?

I am shocked that you seem to think Japan is only inhibited by Japanese and Asians, and therefore only them should be portrayed. A lot of Westerners live and work in Japan, and a lot of them are white or non-Asian. Frankly it makes more sense to make films about them if you want to sell it to a Western audience.

And it is business. Statistics and documentaries show that a lot of people from all over the world goes to this forest to commit suicide. It's not restricted to Japanese people only.

Honestly, the OP is only looking for reasons to feel offended to have something to moan about.

its surprising how people are still igonrant about Japan its like Oh no whites black indian korean Chinese jewish white japanese jews etc etc

inuimari
Sounds like there are 16 countries ahead of you that got a bigger problem, get over yourself and go grope a schoolgirl on a train or jerk off to some tentacles doing it.

Remember, after WW2 japs only still exist because of our mercy. Personally, i think they all should have been vaporized.

Shut your mouth or maybe we will have to look in to opening up the camps again.

Just lol, just lol. The amount of stupid people you come across online is staggering!

very much so

some not all Japanese are bigoted too one woman wanted to round up all the non Japanese people and put them on an Island its like WTF!

basically meaning all the whites

wburchnall

Lastly, being in a foreign country, can lead to the feeling of isolation, depression, anxiety and other mental health issues. There's a term coined for this called 'Culture Shock' which is a well known phenomena. Being in a foreign country, miles away from home, out of touch with nobody to turn to is part of what is intended to make this movie 'creepy' and 'disturbing'. As someone that has traveled to foreign countries, including Japan, it can be slightly unnerving to be unable to speak a local language and 1,000 miles away or more from any friends or family as opposed to traveling in your same province or state knowing your family is at most a phone call and a few hours away.

I wonder how many 'white' people in Japan complain that Japanese companies aren't making enough Japanese movies with white people in them and giving white actors a chance. I bet it's VERY few

did you go through that? I think not alot since they cant talk about Depression in Japan

habakuktwofour
Silly rabbit do you expect anything less from white people but to perpetrate, encroach on and decimate other peoples cultures?

Other countries have done there fair share

Look like Tarzan talk like Jane! HAHA

[–] pajamawolfie 9 years ago

I heard of the Aokigahara suicide forest a few years ago via a documentary, and I know that the suicide rate in Japan is rather high. However, as I am not Asian, so I don't really have much of a say about it. The only reason I wanted to see it was because I'd heard of the forest before.

Perhaps Japanese movie company will make their own version / a similar film addressing this issue. If they didn't want to do a movie on the forest before, maybe they'll do one to counteract the imminent train wreck that is the Hollywood version.

ScarJo in Ghost in the Shell is one thing: she'll get asses in movie theater seats. But that's a science fiction film. The Forest toys with, as you've said, a Japanese national crisis, and is cast in poor taste.

At least film is being released in January, which is when companies put out the movies that suck, so it'll probably be in the bottom of the $5 DVD bin in less than 2 years.

There is no objective reality... and that's Sucker Punch

[–] newgoldcatt 9 years ago

There already is one with an Asian actress and the story has to do with her sister. With an Asian actress they would literally be remaking a recent TV movie for a lot of money. That and how much people like Natalie are probably why they casted it this way. I understand the outrage but for shallow business reasons the casting makes sense lol.

Scarlet makes sense for an anime but I do wish they would actually cast an Asian actress for one of these big roles. The camera flipping loves Gemma chan on humans so hopefully she will get on the big screen in something note able.

[–] lulupalooza 8 years ago

@newgoldcatt

You make good sense. However, you stated:

With an Asian actress they would literally be remaking a recent TV movie for a lot of money.

That is somewhat confusing, since there is no figurative remaking of a film. Perhaps you meant "actually". Regardless, remakes are annoyingly on the rise and, are most often, an expensive venture.

"Don't get chumpatized!" - The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters (2007)

[–] gamer_12 9 years ago

This isn't whitewashing unless you want American produced films to only take place in America. This is about a person who goes looking for her sister who heard about the forest and went there to kill herself. People from other countries could do that so it's believable.

[–] Stiles5339 9 years ago

Exactly, I highly doubt everyone that goes to that forest to commit suicide is one race or another. Every race, every gender has more than likely taken their life in said forest, so it is realistic. If statistics said 100% this race or this gender committed suicide in this forest, that's one thing - but, that isn't the case here.

[–] xfastfurious15 9 years ago

I'm sorry how many average Americans would go ALL the way to Japan just to commit suicide?

I bet you're wondering what a place like this is doing in a girl like me-The Mummy

[–] Stiles5339 9 years ago

It's more nationalist to believe that only Japanese people commit suicide in a singular forest. I live near Niagara Falls, albeit it doesn't have as much of a pull. But, I'd be really naive and out right stupid to believe that only Americans and Canadians have committed suicide at Niagara Falls. Plus, it's seriously racist to think that only Asian people live in Japan - it's the exact equivalent to saying only white people live in the US. It's asinine.

As to who - somebody who has the money and is seeking the stigma behind it. That is why the forest is as powerful as it is, especially with suicide. It takes a very singular and often lonely act and brings a group community into it. Copy cats. If you ask who would copy? You're talking about a world where people copy just about everything even things that lead to their deaths - google 'The Program' movie to see how copycats took their own lives trying to copy what they saw in a movie, that's our world. When you're mentally unbalanced, you don't do things that can mentally be explained.

As said, it is racist and nationalist to be as daft as to believe that only Japanese and asian people have committed suicide in that forest. Are there more people who live close by? Obviously. But, part of the reason why the forest is so well known is because people travel from all around the world to go inside.

Why cast a white person from America as the person who commits suicide there? For the family member protagonist, not only is the emotional level there it also brings in the added "stranger in a new land" difficulties. If you state that person could still be Asian, yes - could have been, but you'd also be saying who they cast doesn't matter now. So, they went with the best name that they could get with their budget that would draw the most people in to watch it. When it doesn't matter - they went with what is the smartest move to make business-wise. FIlm is a business.

As for it not dealing with the realities of suicides of people living in Japan, as well as the asian community at large (?) overseas - it's a horror movie. That's the last place I'd want to see reality brought into it, that would be undermining what those complaining about that want to see. With that content and subject matter - it would be best suited for a 'The Sea of Trees' movie approach that didn't come out (a human drama and character study that is relevant and focuses on those important aspects rather than just making it serve as meaningless background to standard horror fare to be ignored and forgotten once the horror sets in, which to me would be undermining those topics entirely).

[–] xfastfurious15 9 years ago

Wow you are REACHING!

The excuse that film is a "business" is just that-an excuse. It's a film set in Asia! How hard to find ONE Asian actor to play the main character. Even if the rest of the actors were white, it's just typical Hollywood racism.
I live in nj. I know that the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, California is a very popular suicide spot. I'll be damned if I go all the way there, across the entire country, to commit suicide when I can just do it here in NJ.

So the fvck i look like traveling all the way to Japan to commit suicide???? *beep* dumb.

The only thing that you said that made sense is if the sister already lived there or was already in the area and then just decided to commit suicide. But i guess we won't know until the movie comes out.

I bet you're wondering what a place like this is doing in a girl like me-The Mummy

[–] Stiles5339 8 years ago

1) It is a business. A no-name, or an actress with less of a reputation for drawing people in is bad business. It is all about profit for executives, not about art. As a screenwriter, hey - I hate that, but that's the truth of the industry: it's making art, but it's most importantly for the suits about making a profit. It's not if they can find an asian actress, it's all about finding an actress that can draw as much people in as the budget allows them to attain. That means attaching a name. I work in the industry, this is how studio executives think - you need a name. It's a financial net.

2) Even though you are obviously hot headed, you are still mentally stable - people who commit suicide are not mentally stable. People from every race and nationality has committed suicide in said forest. Statistics alone and probability theories tell us that is the case.

3) It is dumb, but so is committing suicide in the first place. It, in and of itself (no offense to anyone - I have lost others to suicide as well), is a dumb (or politically correct: mentally unbalanced) act. There is no mentally stable thought that goes into it at all. You're trying to bring sane reasoning into an insane act, there is no sane reasoning that goes into it in the first place. I'd say one possibility is those who travel to the forest to commit suicide already have a fascination with Japan, thus a stronger pull to committing suicide there. They don't care about money. They don't care about the time it takes (a lot of times there is already a period of prolonging already). The only thing they can see is the act and how they want to do it, everything else no longer matters. Dumb? Suicide is an irrational act. So, exactly.

[–] Dragonfly777 8 years ago

This is somewhat an aside, but I can't help but to take issue with the certianty you project concerning suicide always being "dumb," "irrational,"mentally unbalanced,"insane," that there "is no sane reasoning that goes into it in the first place."

I too have lost people to suicide, and in one case, for example, it was an older man with a relapse of a terrible cancer. He secretly studied the best methods of ending his life, no doubt thought long and hard about whether, at this stage in his life, it would be better for all concerned to end his life or to go through the hell that was fast approaching and would likely end in death anyway. He sanely, rationally, concluded that to take his life was the better choice, and it would be wrong and presumptuous of me to belittle, with false accusations of "insanity," the difficult and dreadful decision he wrestled with and reached when faced only with two horrible and frightening options.

This may sound morbidly pessimistic, but I seriously doubt that there are many sane, clear-sighted and rational people, especially those no longer young, living today who haven't at least questioned whether or not it is really better to be alive, burdened with the body and the conscious awareness of the inevitable physical and emotional suffering to come. Death will come regardless of any effort to ward it off. Note this... I am not advocating suicide. I simply resent the false claim that only dumb or insane people would choose it. Most philosophies and religions at least acknowledge that inevitable suffering comes with life, with the cohabitation of awareness and a corporal mortal body, and to love others who too will suffer and die. What's the first Noble Truth in Buddhism? A great deal of thought throughout the ages and all over the world has gone into how to remedy this problem, through enlightenment and nirvana, or through a soul that is immortal and can be saved from all suffering, etc... Other philosophers offer no hope. Some acknowledge that life is a kind of Sisyphean loop of drudgery and suffering, but argue against suicide.

I've faced that decision, and I've chosen life, with its beauties and wonders and terrors and inevitable end, primarily because I knew I am needed and wanted by those I love and who love me. I've been in mental states that were not rational, Major Depression (the real thing, without any identifiable external cause), depressive to the point of living in an uninterrupted cycle of crippling anxiety, followed by hours of uncontrollable weeping, ending the day exhausted and afraid to go to sleep, and this going on every day for many months. I often thought that I simply couldn't live through another minute of this weird and mysterious malady, or put my loved ones through more days, weeks, months, of having to see me that way, and if I'd given into the temptations to end it that were always in my mind, I would have made a dumb and irrational choice. The depressive cycle ends, things come back into focus, life continues with its ups and downs, and I can breathe again, eat again, feel good again sometimes, function and help others again. I wouldn't argue that all, or most, suicides are rationally committed, but I will argue that there are people who choose suicide for perfectly rational, sane, unclouded clear-sighted reasons.

Lastly, unrelated to the above, if you know of real statistics (not "probability theories"), or know of any studies done that would show that people from around the globe, or even from "the west," travel to this forest in Japan to end their lives, please share. It sounds improbable to me, but I don't know, or claim to know. I do know I won't boycott this film based on the OP's complaint. I want to see it.

The moon is dead. Long live the moon.

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[–] Stiles5339 8 years ago

I would have made a dumb and irrational choice.

Exactly.

I should note that I'm not talking euthanasia, or any form of euthanasia, which I would define as something different. Euthanasia is ending suffering when you know death is inevitable and it's a way to end your pain faster and gentler. Suicide is an impulsive act caused by something you think is life ending and will never go away, but always with time usually does get better. As said, to me they're two different things and they're two different words/terms entirely. I should note I don't even see a cancer patient going off chemo as any form of suicide - chemo is far from an easy process and might cause pain until your dying breath since it is far from a guarantee. As said, I view one as euthanasia (whether assisted or not) and the other as suicide.

I have not been able to find statistics. But, in a lot of the reports I have read it states that people travel from all around the world to see the forest due to their morbid curiosity. In a world where people travel to far off distant lands to drop off one's ashes, to me it is well within the nature and law of probability that there have been those who have traveled to places where they want to die. People already do go to extremes in setting up ways that they would like to die. Thus, with both of those elements already in our nature - I wouldn't call it a stretch of the imagination at all especially since money wouldn't enter into it for many people especially when you're young (only supporting yourself). Also, as originally stated it would be in the minority, but we are talking about world population and saying not even one person would ever do something. To me, due to the number of people, those odds seem really slim - even .5% would be a lot when looking at the numbers.

I actually had no interest in seeing the film, I saw it earlier today because someone I know wanted to see it and while the acting was good it wasn't scary and it was very predictable. To each their own though. I thought I would jump on the boards and was flabbergasted seeing complaints about racism, some films - like '21' I can definitely see that being the case, but to me I'd say there's absolutely no problem since this film was clearly going after the small fish in a new land story. To those who might say "you're white! You're American!" Actually, I'm neither and all of the above. I'm an adoptee brought to America from a foreign country with no way at all of knowing what my ethnicity or race is. What that means is that I'm race/ethnicity/nationalism blind - it's all one giant world to me and we're all the same, so I have no leaning in these regards other than knowing business (you need a name) and story-telling (as said, here they're looking for bringing somebody into a new pond and you need to establish that rather quickly, and that is the route that the story took).

And as said earlier, what the OP wants and what this film is aren't the same at all. To me, it would be a shame to bring those elements into a film like this since they would get buried and not given the respect and time and care that it deserves. To me, with those elements - you don't want to put it into a genre film where those elements are shrugged off - rather you should put that in a dramatic movie. I'd say that 'The Sea of Trees' more than let the ball drop in these regards, everyone is trashing that movie and although I haven't seen it (nor do I think it will ever get released) I am lost as to why the protagonist isn't Asian; it would have made it more timely, it would have introduced new and interesting topics into it, I don't see how you'd need a big name actor - there I'd guess the budget is a lot higher (mainly because of Mcconaughey) than what it should have been to make a solid profit (is there a chance it could have? Yes, but it makes it riskier unless he took a serious pay cut). There I'd say it was either a white writer who wanted a white character, racist casting (as said, with that movie having a "big name lead" only makes your budget a lot higher than what it should be on what is essentially a risky character piece dealing with suicide (since the protagonist is the one seeking to commit suicide, I doubt they would give any thought (like this film did) to reacting to different abroad customs), or using the forest only because people know about it. That movie, as said - I could understand because something is off. Here, it adds to the feeling of being out of place and seclusion (not at all safe) because it is far from home. This was a by the books horror movie about a stranger in a strange new land, they're really a dime a dozen.

[–] ironskeletor 8 years ago

Would you accept an Uzbek lead? That's Asian after all.

[–] Stiles5339 8 years ago

I have no idea who this question is targeted to. So, I'll answer the best way I can if it was directed toward me, a name is a name - is a name. As long as it's a name that you know will draw in more people due to their reputation in the US, and exceptionally great abroad, if possible. The only thing is, has to be a proven name with a fanbase already behind it.

[–] kirsten_ot 8 years ago

You're right, but if they'd cast a Japanese woman, or any other east Asian (cos lets face it, Hollywood thinks all brown people are interchangeable), it would have made no sense to have her speaking English. Obviously many Japanese people do speak English, but it would make no sense in the film to have a Japanese person interacting with other Japanese people in Japan, in English. And they wouldn't be able to market it as a blockbuster horror with subtitles.

[–] GravityCakes 8 years ago

As a person who went to school at Berkeley and lived for years in the Bay Area, I just laughed out loud when I read your comment about the Golden Gate Bridge as you are wrong. People travel/have traveled from all over the country to jump off the bridge -- in addition to actual Bay Area residents -- just as the other poster commented about the forest in Japan and Niagara Falls. Very famous, iconic sites like these attract just that sort of attention (people also have committed suicide by jumping in front of subway trains in New York). It is not that much of a stretch -- when I visited Niagara Falls in fact I remember reading stories about people who had traveled from all over the world to commit suicide at that famous site, and they were even doing this in the days when a country wasn't a short ride on a jet away.

I love Natalie Dormer (since her days on The Tudors), and the cinematography in this film looks beautiful so I plan to see it at some point. Rejecting it for purely political reasons (and I am very sympathetic to the poor treatment of Asian actors in Hollywood, believe me) seems gestural and empty. Maligning this film will accomplish zero as far as the suicide epidemic in Japan is concerned.

"Hearts and kidneys are tinker toys! I am talking about the central nervous system!"

[–] viciouslove 9 years ago

The woman that dissappears in the movie was working in Tokyo as a school teacher...so she was already there. Obviously you just assumed and don't know much about the movie. A lot of Americans take jobs in Japan and many other countries.

[–] LibertarianSoldier 8 years ago

Teaching english, which is highly plausible.

[–] VariaIronhawk 8 years ago

The sister is living and working in Tokyo, soooooo, it really is not such a stretch. See, when you don't know the story, it's easy to criticize.

[–] emokillss 8 years ago

do you think a Filipino is more believable. many Pinoys live and work there and they're asian too

[–] Strazdamonas 8 years ago

Jess, the supposedly suicidal american in the film, was living and working in Japan. So she didnt go "all the way to japan", she was already there.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

[–] dreamdoggie 8 years ago

Exactly, I highly doubt everyone that goes to that forest to commit suicide is one race or another. Every race, every gender has more than likely taken their life in said forest, so it is realistic. If statistics said 100% this race or this gender committed suicide in this forest, that's one thing - but, that isn't the case here.

Nice circular reasoning guy.

[–] inuimari 9 years ago

This " LOVE LIFE OF AN ASIAN GUY " can F Off.

Just got banned from his site cuz I told a girl not to be so judgmental. He basically said that a lot of Asian parents beat their kid. Some posters said that that is abuse and they recanted how abusive their parents were. And this one chick went on dissing all those people who were saying it was abuse. I told her not to be so judgmental and then I got banned. I wasn't even using a swear word. And some of the posters were saying that people who are saying that spanking their kids is abuse where pu&&y white people. SMH.

He's okay with child abuse but is now complaining about mental health among Asians? WTF, man. Total hypocrite. According to this ridiculous site, "tone policing" is a real thing and it's bad. What the.... There's nothing wrong with being nice to people online and your assumed minority status (as in people assuming they are in a more disadvantaged class than those they are speaking to) does not make it okay for people to be a b1tch online.

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[–] whozisdude 9 years ago

The OP is a snow flake.

[–] gumshoebelly 9 years ago

Most Americans are to lazy to read subtitles . I like being able compare different directors vision of the same story. Why make a crappy American version when there's an original that kicks ass i.e. "Old boy" , " a Tale of Two sisters". Laziness pure and simple.

[–] LibertarianSoldier 8 years ago

Its not laziness. Movies are a visual medium. When I watch, I want to immerse into the story visually. Reading words at the bottom of the screen takes me out of the immersion. If you can be satisfied without that level of immersion, good for you. That's your preference, this is mine.

[–] Strazdamonas 8 years ago

Its less of a preference and more your inability to read without being taken out of a movie. Subtitles has never lowered my immersion level.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

[–] donald-vanvliet 9 years ago

Why is that necessary? Why can't Americans just watch something in its original form?

It's not necessary.

But that doesn't mean it's necessarily "wrong".

The concept of a remake is as old as film itself.

It happens in other directions as well : I've seen several Indian versions of Hollywood classics (f.e. Witness), but with Indian actors in an Indian landscape and the local language...

I'm sure the authors of the story were well compensated.

Are there no Japanese remakes of Western films or stories ?

[–] inuimari 9 years ago

Are there no Japanese remakes of Western films or stories ?

Ghost has recently been remade as a Japanese-Korean join film. Flowers for Algernon was recently made into a TV series. But such remakes of western films in Japan are pretty rare though. Bollywood films on the other hand.....

[–] Lord_of_Trance 9 years ago

I was gonna watch the movie, 'cause it sounds awesome. Your post is plain stupid. Makes me wanna love the movie even more, you hater.

Anyway, I expect it to be a great story, always open for some horror.

[–] Jatahaxe 9 years ago

It's more like if a bunch of Japanese people made a movie about spooks at Golden Gate Bridge, Aokigahara's companion in most popular suicide destinations. As an American, I would pay to see that movie, so I don't see why The Forest is so upsetting.

[–] whumpy224 9 years ago

To the OP:

If Asian Mental Illness is such a passionate cause of yours, why don't you start a petition to improve awareness, create your own documentary, or write your own film script?

**This is so much more worse than whitewashing**

This is so much more worse than whitewashing