MovieChat Forums > Batman: Arkham Knight (2015) Discussion > So the Arkham Knight persona was absolut...

So the Arkham Knight persona was absolutely pointless (SPOILERS)

posted 9 years ago by Admiral-Kizaru
23 replies | jump to latest

If you think about, The game would've played out exactly the same if Jason just Started out as the Red Hood. But sadly what it doesn't change is the fact that "The Arkham Knight" was Falsely advertised and a huge Let-down

First off, Giving an already existing character a New costume does not count as Creating a Brand new Character as Rocksteady claimed they were doing, but nope they soldout and gave us probably the worst version of Jason Todd (which I will get too) and if anyone is going to defend this by claiming, they wanted to throw us all off guard, well if you take out the fact that RS said it would be a new character, (which didn't stop people from theorising who it would be) then its so Painfully obvious its Jason Todd.

Or if you claim, they just wanted to try and introduce the character to people who've never read the comics. well, odds are if they don't read the comic's they wont even know who Jason Todd is, not only that but it would honestly be straight up Bull from RS to false advertise a new character to comic fans and not full fill that claim just to try and catter to non comic fans.

Which leads to the "Let-Down" part of my argument, ARKHAM KNIGHT IS A BLOODY JOKE!!! throughout the whole game everyone keeps building up on what a momentous occasion Batman vs Arkham Knight would be, but what do we get, an over long Stealth Section, and once its over Jason just straight up disappears from the game all together up until the end, AND THIS IS THE GUY THE GAME IS NAMED AFTER!!! which shows even more False Advertisement, what happened to "Batman's Greatest challenge". and in then end Jason's sudden turn is a Complete ass-pull, he went through the trouble of Taking over a city with his massive army of A.I tanks and highly trained soldiers, and he just flips like nothing? it would've made since if him and Bruce actually had a conversation afterwords or something, but nope its all just set up for a 10min DLC which adds nothing new to Jasons character or the Plot over all it only exists because...KILL'IN PEPAL IS CEWL!!!

One last thing, The name "Arkham Knight" makes no since what does Jason have anything to do with Arkham Asylum itself, Nothing they just had to Shoehorn in the "Arkham" without it relating to anything else...

[–] CHVone 9 years ago

I never read the comics but I knew straight away who Arkham Knight was once they done the flashbacks

[–] ExplorerDS6789 9 years ago

Rocksteady did it to hold our interest, keep us guessing. Like if we just heard the game would be Batman out to stop Scarecrow along with some of his Rogues Gallery villains, people would be like, "okay, that sounds cool." But if they hear, "there's a mysterious new villain in town, a militarized version of Batman launching drone tanks all over Gotham," people be like "OMG, who is that guy?"
They wanted to keep us guessing all the way to the release date.

[–] rubbermonkey88 9 years ago

"there's a mysterious new villain in town, a militarized version of Batman launching drone tanks all over Gotham," people be like "OMG, who is that guy?"

So what was stopping them from actually coming up with a new character 'never before seen in any Batman continuity', you know, exactly what they claimed they had done instead of messing with an already established character? Putting him in a new suit doesn't change who he is. It was a disappointment because it seemed so out of character from Jason Todd - even the version shown in flashbacks. He goes from Robin to being captured and tortured for a year to years later somehow becoming a respected militia leader with an incredible amount of hi-tech vehicles that musta cost quite a lot. And where did all his wealth come from? Hard to believe that crybaby was able to command the respect of his troops. It really seemed like lazy writing or planning.

[–] ExplorerDS6789 9 years ago

Well, let's admit that at this point "Arkham" is only a name. They obviously changed the game's story between Asylum and City, so it's only called Arkham to tie in with the other games. As far as creating a new character, they could have. Sure. The possibilities were endless. But maybe it has to do with studio meddling. Rocksteady designs the game and makes bid decisions, sure, but don't forget, Warner Bros. shadow looms LARGE over them. They could mandate any change and Rocksteady would have to comply...lest they turn the project over to those Canadian glitch-meisters again. Studio and corporate meddling ruin movies and video games these days. The studios think WE are idiots and won't gravitate toward something unless it contains something that appeals to a mass. They knew fans would be up in arms if Jason Todd weren't figured into the story, since Dick Grayson and Tim Drake were already brought in.

Personally, I think the Arkham Knight should've been a descendant of Amadeus Arkham, as well as a knight of the Order of St. Dumas. Remember Azrael's side mission where he had an implant in his brain that told him to kill Batman? Something like that. I mean, seriously, who cares about Jason Todd? Dick Grayson was the only Robin I've EVER known, with the Adam West series, the animated series and the early movies. Todd must not have been very smart to be easily captured and defeated by the Joker in the first place.

[–] Scruffy-Blessedtwinz 9 years ago

The name "Arkham Knight" makes no since what does Jason have anything to do with Arkham Asylum itself, Nothing they just had to Shoehorn in the "Arkham" without it relating to anything else...

Jason was tortured in Arkham Asylum for over a year. Not only physically but mentally as well.
Personally, I see it as a nod to Bruce channelling his biggest fears and childhood trauma into becoming the BATman.
Jason did what Bruce did similarly, he took what frightened him and become THAT symbol to strengthen himself.
It was either going to be Arkham-Man or The Arkham Knight, just like THE Dark Kight.

I didn't mind Jason being the Knight. I WOULD have preferred it to be an original character yes, but what's done is done. I spend all my time judging The Arkham Knight on who he should have been in my opinion, but that's not very fair.

my only complaint is how he just disappears 2/3' into the story. That's just poor storytelling imo.

off cours they kept his identity a secret and lied about it because they wanted to invoke that original mystery of, who is the Red Hood?

On its own, the game is actually a decent retelling of that story.

Inspector-detective_investigator-twinz was too long for a username.

[–] Varsityscw120 9 years ago

If you didn't know he Arkham knight was Jason then you might be retarded...

[–] Scruffy-Blessedtwinz 9 years ago

That last word wasn't really necessary, friend.

Inspector-detective_investigator-twinz was too long for a username.

[–] Varsityscw120 9 years ago

Sorry but still. It was clear as day...

[–] Scruffy-Blessedtwinz 9 years ago

it was clear to those familiar with the character yes.

However a case could be made that the torture flashbacks fit into the theme perfectly. Of Batman trying to distance himself from his Bat-Family because of the hurt he brought to them.

This was already hinted at in Arkham City where he bluntly tells Robin to f^ck off and let him handle it.

We also had a flashback of Barbara getting shot by Joker aftr she got kidnapped by the Arkham Knight. And later on Tim Drake gets capture due him.
through-out the entire game we hear Batman beating himself over the head by her capture ( through Joker's taunting )
So the Jason flashbacks just tied into the narrative perfectly.

Even IF the AK turned out to be Johnny Random, those scenes would still fit perfectly.

Inspector-detective_investigator-twinz was too long for a username.

[–] Admiral-Kizaru 9 years ago

I mentioned this to you on the BvS Board, Rocksteady claimed he was a "new character" so that's what I wanted to believe in, but as soon as I played the game right from the Start I honestly Dropped that hope I had, YES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD I KNEW HE WAS JASON TODD that game barely even did that well of a job to hide that.

but apparently you don't seem to realise what I'm complaining about here. why give him this new *beep* identity in the first place rather then making him the RedHood straight up

this Whole Arkham knight BS is probably the icing on the cake of all the problems I have with this game.

[–] Varsityscw120 9 years ago

He was a new character to the game series?

[–] Littlebitsofgaming 9 years ago

I want to disagree with everything you wrote there.
I want to, but simply can't.

The Arkham Knight character was so badly handled its staggering.
Even if we remove the obvious fact of who he really is, the character is just so badly written its borderline insulting.

Yeah it was blindingly obvious who the Arkham Knight was. Fans were (correctly) theorising who he was within hours of the character being announced...even on these very boards.

They could have created an all new character as Rocksteady claimed. But come on, it was even more obvious they wouldn't, no matter what they claimed.
It would have made zero sense story wise to suddenly include an all new character for the "finale" and clearly the character HAD to be connected to Bruce/Batman.
As soon as they announced the Arkham Knight character as being "new", I called BS.

Some claim it was "clever marketing". No it really wasn't, not when fans correctly called Rocksteady out on their BS within hours.
What would have been "clever marketing" is Rocksteady not mentioning the Arkham Knight at all as a character. The title of the game would have still made sense and fans would have only been clued in when they first played the game.

Yes even in game it was stupidly obvious who the Arkham Knight really was. But at least without prior knowledge, fans wouldn't have been so expecting.

But yeah, I agree that the whole character was just so terribly handled and written.

I've been saying since the first day I played the game that this is the worst of the series so far, in terms of its horrendous writing and even flawed game-play.

Shadow Of Mordor was a better Arkham game than this and that was a blatant rip-off.

And so, God came forth and proclaimed widescreen is the best.
Sony 16:9

[–] Admiral-Kizaru 9 years ago

FINALLY!!! Someone I can relate to in this matter Thank you.

I whole heartedly agree with what you said, and while I don't like to demonis other people's opinions, this game is getting WAY to much undeserved praise, I honestly can't believe I've came cross people who defend this game to the point the call it the best in the series, it's ludacris.

But the whole Arkham knight stuff for me is merly the icing on the cake with the problems I have with game game.

The lack of Boss Battles is unexusable, and the over use of the Batmobile is insane it may have started as fun but the more it went on it just started to get boring and Repetitive "be the batman" more like be the Batmobile fight waves and waves of tanks.

The side missions are what hurt me the most in particularly Hush and Azrial they built up for nothing.
- Hushes revenge he promised wa to just steal some money?
- I was hopping for Azrial to have a much bigger role for the same since he basically set up this game, but nope he there just for a pointless combat challenge, absolutely pointless.
None of the other villain have anything to do with the plot at all, I remember in the trailers and interviews hearing all the Villains are teaming up which sounds Awesome, but in the game there barely in a room together, there just out following there personal plans which don't even intertwine or have any connection...another sign of false advertising.

I was also hoping the could finally have a Batman game without shoehorning The Joker, and while it may have started ok, it just blow out of preporting to the point he took center stage, he even had a stronger presance Then Scarecrow WTF.

SORRY for the lenthy reply this game really tipped my boiling point

[–] rubbermonkey88 9 years ago

This game maybe the best looking game in the series but it in no way the best in gameplay or story. I don't know who is to blame but it is like RS learnt nothing from the previous games especially AOrigins. There is zero replay unless you like car games and there were no memorable gameplay sequences or encounters that stood out.
I do think RS could've come up with a new unique character for the series and still kept RedHood in the narrative with some clever writing. And the side quests could've easily been part of the main story so the other villains all get useful story arcs of their own instead of throwaway sequences like Two-Face not even getting a cutscene in his.
Also apologies for long-ass post...

Examples of how a bit of thought could've made the game more 'I am Batman' than it was:
- Have the Arkham Knight related to Bane's mercenaries from AO who get captured and end up in Arkham. Then, when the last of them get killed off in AA during Joker's plan, AK helps Hugo Strange by training the Tyger guards since he is a trained mercenary himself. He also learns of Batman's identity from Hugo. So now, because of the men he lost at Arkham and during AC, he has a personal thing against Batman. From using bits of story from the previous games, we have a new character with a background story that can continue to be fleshed out during the events of AK and who has a stronger motive behind his actions; blaming Batman for the loss of his men/family. Also explains his military training and access to military weapons and resources, unlike Jason who just seemed to pull all that out of nowhere.

- Make the side missions related to the main story and have the villains actually working together. Give them their own stories, cutscenes, boss fights...

- Make the batmobile JUST a car with a winch and emp and shields

- Have the ability to switch between Batman and Robin then Nightwing etc any time in free roam. It doesn't have to break the narrative as Story missions could just then force use Batman when necessary.

- Joker didn't have to be in every scene and Red Hood could still be included in the early parts of the story. Scarecrow's plan needed to make sense as setting off his bomb looked great but was ultimately pointless. That story mission could've just been Scarecrow attempting to drive his bomb out of Gotham to detonate it in Bludhaven and Batman had only several minutes to stop it and cause it to detonate in a somewhat empty Gotham and then use Ivy to help him counter the effects. We still get the cool looking clouds and Ivy arc but without the pointless Scarecrow plan. I honestly feel the overall story was weakened because they went with Jason Todd which caused his character to, in a very short time, go from threatening to insolent and childish. For someone who was apparently a match for Batman and a threatening leader of an elite militia force, he was beaten by being forced in to becoming a crybaby.

So that's just a few quick ideas that make me disappointed that this game couldn've been so much better than it was with just a bit more planning and thought.

[–] Admiral-Kizaru 9 years ago

Now Those are some Fantastic Ideas you had their, it just shows how Lazy RS and the writers of the story where. its a true damn shame this game has fallen for all the corporate greed that other company's have fallen for, this game was trying to sell more then try to appease Fans, a perfect example for this would be the Half assed DLC, Batgirl, Red Hood, Harley, all these DLCs are a complete joke, they add nothing new to the story, you can only play as them in there respective missions and the biggest spit in the face, is that there all 10min or less, WTF I was at least hoping for a Cold Cold Heart length (a much better and worth while dlc)

but about what you said I completely agree, the side missions in this game were pointless, what was the point of teaming up all these villains if you wount see them in a room together, not to mention they rarely have any screen time at all, only appearing at the end of there missions, even Scarecrow stopped being a threat once you've stopped the cloud burster. and Rocksteady should just keept to their word and Dumped joker and Jason Todd being the Artkham Knight.

the sad thing is, the majority of fans see no problem with this and insist on eating it up, like sheep, proving why game companies continue to pork out all this...

Also the ending was absolute non scene

[–] rubbermonkey88 9 years ago

Yeah sadly I came up with those ideas in like 3 days - after finishing the game and all the current dlc in less than 9 hours and not going back to it cos I'm a Batman fan and not a car racing fan.... ideas born out of disappointment of what could have been with just a little more effort and thought. It was all there; all the past games had the basics they just needed to build on them. They put so much effort on the look - and yes it looks great - but it is empty with not much to do.

Here's another example of a sidequest with Hush that could've been used:

So this can be early on in the game when Batman is busy stopping random Scarecrow gas attack riots (another sidequest), Hush has been using his Bruce Wayne persona to steal money off of Wayne Enterprises for months and secretly fund the AK. Later in the game when chasing down Penguin's weapon trucks and caches, Batman comes across a crate with Wayne Enterprises on it. This sets off an investigation sidequest when he has to scan boxes to find shipping manifests then trace them to warehouses, docks and eventually finds a manifest with Bruce Wayne's signature. Batman then needs to infiltrate Wayne Enterprises and search for Hush who has taken all the board members or just Lucius hostage - this can be a stealth section. After defeating some of AK's disguised henchman (disguised as corporate whatevers), Batman has to track down Hush but he has used Bruce's money to hire Deathstroke as a bodyguard - cue boss fight with Deathstroke and/or Hush and we get a lengthy, related, interesting sidequest with investigations, brawls, stealth and possibly two decent boss fights and an reason for having Deathstroke appear again.

I have much more where this came from....... sigh

[–] Lancechristopher77 9 years ago

We can all agree that Red Hood is a character.

Red Hood is a costume worn by several people.

So, creating the Arkham Knight is effectively creating a new character.

It's advertising, it's comic books, it's whatever you want to call it.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Admiral-Kizaru 9 years ago

No it isn't, it's creating a new Persona, not a character

And if there will to advertise "New character" regardless if it's an already existing one or not, this character at least need to be memorable which he wasn't, he came of as a whiny emotional moron

[–] terry_hurley 9 years ago

I like this game. A lot. The thing is, I can't even disagree with many of the valid complaints. If Batman, is the "World's Greatest Detective", then the second greatest, must be Frank Drebbin. However, for me, personally, the plus points of the game, far outweigh the minuses.
The thing is, I do totally agree with you, regarding The Arkham Knight, as a character. I would not have minded the reveal, if, The Arkham Knight, had been a fun character. He was just awful, which is a great shame, when you consider the work done by the writers for the rest of the cast. The only thing I would say, in defense of Rocksteady, is that their is obvious love and respect , for the Batman world. The Easter Eggs alone prove this. I genuinely don't think that they thought that they were misleading anyone in a bad way. I really think that they thought that Batman fans would love the Jason tie in.
So, is the eponymous character badly written and conceived ? Yep! Does it spoil the game for me? Not in the slightest . I love the atmosphere of the game, the majority of the game play (Ahem.....Bloody Batmobile....So nearly brillaint, and yet, so annoying), a lot of the games reveals, and for me, the emotion of the piece (Batman, saying goodbye to Alfred near the start of the game, in ACE Chemicals, was, for me, very moving)

[–] manofsteel4455 9 years ago

Maybe now you guys learned. Next time don't ruin the suspense for yourselves by asking too many questions about an upcoming game or movie.

[–] Admiral-Kizaru 9 years ago

Its good that you liked the game, which is something I cant really say for my self, The whole arkham knight stuff is the icing on the cake of the problems I had with this game...

- The overuse of the batmobile
- Receptivity in the gameplay
- Over exploiting the Joker
- Doing nothing special with the other villains
- Underwhelming side Missions
- Awful Boss fights
- Convoluted ending which could have been solved in many different ways
- Ripoff DLC

again its great that you didn't have these problems with the game, but as for me it could have been far, FAR more better....

[–] AgentBlue 9 years ago

Yeah I agree it was obvious who it was once they showed the flashbacks, I wish it was a brand new character rather than the most predictable one.

Lose the Game!!!!!!!