MovieChat Forums > Toni Erdmann (2016) Discussion > Fight Club element critics are missing? ...

Fight Club element critics are missing?


***SPOILER WARNING***

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2017/02/toni-erdmann-misunderstood-masterpiece-full-spoilers.html

...OK, so what is the catch and major spoiler? I say this film uses a Fight Club-like trick, though unlike Hollywood it doesn’t feel the need to tell its viewers outright.

Most of the father’s Bucharest visit to his daughter never actually takes place (some of it probably does, though we cannot quite be sure). The father leaves Bucharest, and when the daughter supposedly runs into him again at a city bar, in his disguise, while she is talking about him to her friends, he isn’t really there. The coincidence of the encounter is too extreme and no attempt is made to explain it. And, after the conversation, when he leaves and climbs into the largest limousine you ever have seen (he’s a music teacher back home, not a CEO), that too is a sign this isn’t really happening. The unreality of his continuing visit also explains the succeeding odd medley of coincidences, and that she simply doesn’t tell him to cut it out and stop ruining her career. He is haunting her imagination, and no simple physical remedy will do.

If you do not understand this point, much of the movie will seem obnoxious and overstated, or even nonsensical. In fact a few reviewers have made this complaint (some reviews here); if your critic is employing the word “preposterous,” beware!

In my reading of the film, the handcuffs sequence is the key scene. The father comes along and handcuffs himself to the daughter, without having a key to open them up. That’s how she feels about her station in life. Eventually they find someone to pick the lock, but if you’re wondering why she tolerates this behavior, and immediately afterwards takes him to a bunch of work meetings and interviews…well, think Fight Club. She truly does carry him with her, no matter where she goes.

Also, for further clues, listen to the lyrics of the Whitney Houston song she sings at the Romanian party.

The now-famous nude party scene reflects how the daughter feels exposed and naked out in her job, much as she feels she never can escape her father. The appearance of the “furry creature” at the party then shows that her father — as a figment — will keep on coming back, in whatever extreme manifestations might be required.

Recall in the opening scene how the father is hiring/installing an imaginary daughter? She is mirroring this same behavior — also in a destructive way — by installing an imaginary father. The movie’s title, Toni Erdmann, of course refers to the father’s (supposed) alter ego, not to the father himself; that should be another clue.

People, no one gets this movie. It does have very positive reviews, but the American and British critics are missing the boat.

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I saw "Toni Erdmann" now 2 times and read a lot of reviews,
but this is the most ridiculous interpretation I came across.

I think, you don't get this movie.

There is no reason to believe that part of the movie is 'only a dream' or a 'fantasy' at all.
It's realism.
With symbols & metaphors added.

Most of the father’s Bucharest visit to his daughter never actually takes place (some of it probably does, though we cannot quite be sure). The father leaves Bucharest, and when the daughter supposedly runs into him again at a city bar, in his disguise, while she is talking about him to her friends, he isn’t really there. The coincidence of the encounter is too extreme and no attempt is made to explain it.

The "coincidence of the encounter" is NOT "too extreme", because Winfried knew where his daughter went to business and he wanted to surprise her.

after the conversation, when he leaves and climbs into the largest limousine you ever have seen (he’s a music teacher back home, not a CEO), that too is a sign this isn’t really happening.

This "largest limousine you have ever seen" is actually quite common in big cities, where you can rent them.
I saw pictures of them in Bucharest, where they seem to be nothing special.
We actually only see Winfried walking to one of them, nothing more.

The appearance of the “furry creature” at the party then shows that her father — as a figment — will keep on coming back, in whatever extreme manifestations might be required.

Again, this "Furry creature" is actually quite well-known in Bulgaria and Romania. Is it far-fetched that Winfried would put on such a costume? Yes. But it's still 'in character', because he's a prankster, who likes to do funny stuff like that.

The movie sometimes seems to slide into surrealism, but it always stays within the realm of the possible.
Its depiction of Europe, Romania and Ines' working conditions is very realistic as far as I read.

The main influence of this film is the naturalism and absurd humor of the Romanian New Wave.

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I saw "Toni Erdmann" now 2 times and read a lot of reviews, but this is the most ridiculous interpretation I came across.


Perhaps but you don't really make a convincing case against the argument except "these really bizarre chain of events are perfectly understandable".

These "largest limousine you have ever seen" is actually quite common in big cities, where you can rent them. I saw pictures of them in Bucharest, where they seem to be nothing special. We actually only see Winfried walking to one of them, nothing more.


A chauffer opens the door for Winfried, let's him in the limo and then they drive off together. Sounds like you need to see it a third time. ;-)

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Perhaps but you don't really make a convincing case against the argument except "these really bizarre chain of events are perfectly understandable".


This is lame.

You don't have any case at all.

Present your paper in public & people will laugh at you 


A chauffer opens the door for Winfried, let's him in the limo and then they drive off together. Sounds like you need to see it a third time. ;-)


I'm not 100% sure and don't have a DVD here, so maybe you're right.

But even then: What's so fantastic about renting a limousine with a chauffeur ?
In Bucharest its probably not even as expensive.
I read that its one of the cheapest cities to live in Europe.
Even Winfried could have rented that car.

"Toni Erdmann" is much more realistic than you know.
You're confusing absurdism with surrealism.

You only have hot air, not a plausible interpretation.

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This is lame.

You don't have any case at all.

Present your paper in public & people will laugh at you

You only have hot air, not a plausible interpretation.


No amount of evidence could convince you at this point.

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Wrong.

If you present any clear evidence or at least some valid reasons for your wild interpretation,

then I would take it seriously, think about it & maybe change my mind.


Happened before.


But your "interpretation" is just badly informed, thoughtless & ultimately nonsense.

Sorry to say. 

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The interpretation is sound as far as interpretations go since interpretations are subjective after-all. Your overreaction to the interpretation only demonstrates you don't like it, not that it's poorly argued. "This bizarre behavior really could have happened" or "the escalation of weird events is perfectly normal in this city" is hardly a strong refutation. Any good artist and their work will permit individual and deviating interpretations. It would be interesting to get her take on it but it really doesn't matter after-all. Dismissive statements like "nonsense" and "thoughtless" just highlights your lack of understanding about the nature of art.

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