MovieChat Forums > Queen Sugar (2016) Discussion > Prefer Charley over both Nova and Vi

Prefer Charley over both Nova and Vi


Which seems to be the unpopular opinion but I tend to find myself rooting for Charley more than the other two. Vi comes across as extremely hypocritical and judgmental. Nova is all over the place. Having an affair with a married man while trying to advocate for social justice. Stealing her sister's money without acknowledging that it was wrong. Yes it was for a good cause, but you still STOLE sis. There is a lot about Nova's character that really rubs me the wrong way. She is extremely self righteous with a somewhat poor moral compass.

I get that part of what makes the show so great is that the characters are human and flawed. But I still prefer some characters over others and find myself rooting for Charley over the other two main women on the show.

In general she seems more practical, consistent, and level headed. I also admire her desire to want to provide her son with the best possible life. But I notice she's perceived as uppity by some and viewers are put off by her.

Thoughts?

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I wonder if race will come up. Since the actress that plays Charley is fair skinned, might set up that her mother is white. Especially if Charley grew up privileged and married money. That maybe the sore spot between the sisters. Nova feeling she'said not living the good life like Charley. Kind of like the comedy Half & Half about 10 years ago

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I just figured that Charley's mother was Asian.... The actress that plays the character looks more so Asian than white but that's just my guess.


I woke up this way...

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Dawn-Lyen Gardner (Charley) is half Asian in real life. Her mother is Chinese and her father is Black.

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I think Nova was referring to Charley's life after marriage, not her adolescence. I can't imagine she had it easy in rural Louisiana as a child stigmatized by illegitimacy. To Nova, Charley is the living embodiment of her father's sin; she has as much as said so. To a large degree, I think this informs their relationship and the ensuing tension.
I suspect that these circumstances fueled Charley's ambitions and made a self-starter out of her. She will always have something to prove.

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I can relate to Charley easier than I can to Nova. I'm familiar with where Charley's from. I understand her interests, priorities, approach to business and her immediate family's matters.

Nova was introduced as this mystic natural healer, in tune with the earth, unencumbered and loving. Until she demonstrated those "flaws" you've enumerated, she was totally cool and exciting. I really wanted to know her. However, her father's death and Davis' antics forced her to do some introspection and she flipped -- it seems to me. Maybe when they get the farm under control, she'll vibe with nature and be cool again.

Aunt Vi is that woman who was raised in a time and place where women didn't have the privileges and means to seize opportunities that were presented to her nieces. She is who she is and deals with what comes her way the best way she knows, the way the women before her did it. Many of us are fortunate to have/had an Aunt Vi.

I love them all.




Some have such a low esteem they create reasons to hate everyone else.

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Aunt Vi is that woman who was raised in a time and place where women didn't have the privileges and means to seize opportunities that were presented to her nieces. She is who she is and deals with what comes her way the best way she knows, the way the women before her did it. Many of us are fortunate to have/had an Aunt Vi.


Good Lord! How old do you think Vi is?!! What you just described sounds like a woman who came of age in the 40s, 50s, 60s or even early to mid 70s. I put Vi's age at 50-52 which means at BEST she came of age in the late 70s-80s. There were plenty of opportunities available for women during that time. I don't know WHAT the explanation is for her "I didn't flourish because I put my family first" story line but I don't think this is it.

If you'll recall the episode where her friends were visiting and having lunch in the diner. THEY were her contemporaries and one was an executive at a major oil company and the other was a lawyer while Vi was just a waitress in a diner. Her friends mistakenly thought she OWNED The diner. If they weren't held back because of the lack of opportunity for women during "those times" then neither should Vi have been. This is just not a valid excuse for Vi's lack of success.

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Not excuses but the realities of the times and sociopolitical-economic conditions. Before you can begin to understand, you must first accept that all Blacks have not shared the same experience.

As the late father's sister, I'm guessing Aunt Vi is in her late 60s possibly 70 from the tribe, "Black Don't Crack." She's much older than Hollywood. She even regarded herself as a "cougar."

If they weren't held back because of the lack of opportunity for women during "those times" then neither should Vi have been.

"Should" is a very apt word choice since Louisiana had a caste system. Some Blacks were free. Others weren't freed until 1864.

Because of that, do you believe everyone is prepared to meet opportunities in the universe when their start wasn't equal? Don't you agree that some have advantages over others?

Aunt Vi: Born in the late 1940s. Grew up in the '50s - early '60s PRE-Civil Rights still fighting Jim Crow rural south USA. Sharecroppers. Aunt Vi's family was from and continued on the plantation while her "contemporaries" were more upscale and higher educated.

Political/Economic: While some families, the free families strove to get their daughters a post secondary education, the illiterate families who were more recently owned didn't/or couldn't realize it as a possibility until much later.

Did you not hear Aunt Vi tell the family how they were owned by the family who owns the land that surrounds them? How her great grandparents were slaves? How her father was a sharecropper on that land? How her recently deceased brother finally obtained the land?

Cultural/Social attitudes: In those times, some families maintained that girls should be in the home, marry, have children -- while the unmarried care for the elders. In Black families, daughters did as they were told - unquestioningly obedient or exiled.

While owning a family diner would be an accomplishment, just like owning the farm, it's customary for a rural woman in the south, it's not a progressive achievement like becoming a journalist, an attorney, or a corporate executive.

And ironically, poor farming families couldn't afford to send their kids to school perpetuating "the cycle of poverty."





Some have such a low esteem they create reasons to hate everyone else.

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I agree with only one thing in that Aunt Vi is likely older. However her two contemporaries blows your theory out of the water. Why did they make it and Vi did not?

My mother is Aunt Vi. From Georgia her great grandfather was a slave, who once free managed to buy 100 acres of land from his former slave master. My mother's father was a share cropper. She came from a very close knit family where several generations lived in same house or town. However, she put herself through college and graduate school. So yeah, I'm of the opinion Vi didn't get far because of her lack of initiative AND making her brother's family too much of her life. Did she raise Ralph Angel?

Personally, I can take her or leave her. She started off great now she's becoming sour because she's feeling "unwanted" by her nieces and nephew who are now adults and have their own lives.

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Props to your mom.

Was she married before or after she put herself through school? Was your grandfather literate? Did your mother go away to school or did she stay home and care for the extended family while studying?

Your great "great grandfather was a slave who, once free, managed to buy 100 acres of land from his former slave master." Yet your grandfather was a share cropper? Why didn't your grandfather work his grandfather's land?


Aunt Vi vs. Her Contemporaries

Georgia's and Louisiana's laws and culture were very different. Actually, Louisiana was unlike the rest of the states. In Louisiana, all Blacks were not equal. Some were never slaves: The Free vs. The Freed.

The Free were educated. Business owners. Traders. Some were slave owners themselves. Apparently writing Aunt Vi's family being "owned" in blue didn't increase the distinction and make evident the probability that her acquaintances in the diner weren't sharecroppers as children like Vi was.

Unlike your mother whose freed great grandfather was a land owner, it was Vi's brother who purchased the land and built them a home. Therefore, you could be right that Aunt Vi chose to stay with her brother to care for their elders and raise RA. Yet, that's not "a lack of initiative." That was throwing in her hat to help her family become First Generation Owners and send her nieces to college.








Some have such a low esteem they create reasons to hate everyone else.

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Was she married before or after she put herself through school?


My mother was single as an undergraduate. She was married with kids when she earned her graduate degree. She had to drive four hours to Tallahassee once a week for the classes. No big thing for her because she had to walk 3 miles (each way) to attend a secondary colored school when they lived in Georgia.

Was your grandfather literate?


Yes. My great great grandfather was literate as well. His half-brother, who was the slave master's son, received a paid formal education courtesy of his older brother.

Did your mother go away to school or did she stay home and care for the extended family while studying?


She attended school away from home in North Carolina.

Your great "great grandfather was a slave who, once free, managed to buy 100 acres of land from his former slave master." Yet your grandfather was a share cropper? Why didn't your grandfather work his grandfather's land?


My great-great grandfather never cleared his land. He sold timber to white paper mills in Louisville, GA. He had eight children. The land passed down through the family and everyone received a share of the proceeds from the timber sales. And that's a ton of relatives so my grandfather sharecropped to make ends meet. My grandfather stopped being a sharecropper when my mother was a junior in high school. He moved the family north to NYC during the Great Migration. He worked as a doorman for 30+ years in Manhattan. He couldn't afford for my mother's tuition, so she worked in a jewelry factory during the summer and also on campus.

P.S. Our family no longer owns the land. A cousin, who was designated a steward, lost it in the 1980s for not paying the taxes:/

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P.S. Our family no longer owns the land. A cousin, who was designated a steward, lost it in the 1980s for not paying the taxes


You don't know how much I hate reading that.

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I too find myself gravitating more towards Charley. Nova (for obvious reason) is just a big NO to me. In fact she is my absolute least favorite character.....even more so than Davis. Aunt Vi is flawed (judgemental and controlling) but I like her. EVERY family has.....or NEEDS an Aunt Vi. There is no question that she loves her kin. Charley tends to come off a bit elitist and very stubborn and know it all at times but overall she's my fave.

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Nova (for obvious reason) is just a big NO to me

Because she's involved with a married man? Because she's involved with a white man? Because she's bi? or because she doesn't fit the cliché of the "proud but subdued black mother whose whole life revolves around her man and her son"?

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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1. Because she's a self-righteous, hypocritical, faux "conscious" pro-black who sells drugs to her own community.

2. Because she has no moral compass as her morals change to fit HER needs

3. Because she is a lesbian and a theif.

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Your opinion loses a lot of value when you list "lesbian" as a character flaw. And she's not a lesbian, fool.

"What race are you? If you don't tell me I'll just...assume the worst."

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I don't dislike Charley for the obvious reasons (aura of elitism) but for how she dismissed the experts she sought out (Remy and Prosper). At the same time, I like how smart she is, her application business sense to get the farm going again (wish she'd been able to do that before Pop died, also wish she'd apply that to listening to the experts) and realizing something was up about the value of the land to the Boudreaxs and Landrys.

I love Vi and her nurturing spirit. Her words about Davis broke my heart for RA, though. I also think she is/was being too rigid with Hollywood. Her woe-is-me attitude after the hurricane seemed truly at odds with the strong person she truly seems to be.

Nova is a free spirit and I like that about her, but being with a married man who has no sympathy for social justice is very off-putting, but so is going from an office compliment to the bedroom.

All that to say... I love them equally.

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Vi comes across as extremely hypocritical and judgmental. Nova is all over the place. Having an affair with a married man while trying to advocate for social justice

What do social justice and activism have to do with being in love with a married man?

She is extremely self righteous with a somewhat poor moral compass.

Unlike Charley who, when confronted with the fact some of her hubby's teammates had possibly raped a woman was only worried about how tragic it was going to be for her poor hubby to have to start over with another team, not once mentioning the victim except to say she hoped she couldn't make a case. Great moral compass indeed.

And by the way, I like both characters because they are flawed and realistic, and care about the world around them in general. That doesn't make them saints though and that's what I like about them.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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Nova rubs me the wrong as well. She started off cool as this Mother Earth type of character then she just fell off the rails. She's a selfish hypocrite. Hates Charley supporting Davis but carries on with a married man. Speaks out about blacks going to jail in a pay-for-prison system but then she sells weed to blacks. Helps everyone around her but not her family i.e. bailing out Too Sweet but only visiting Ralph Angel only a couple of times. Delivering some weed smoking grandma to a hotel but not concerned if her family or the farm is okay. Couldn't wait a day or two so the migrant workers can come to terms over their friends' death before she's looking to get something out of it. And I still don't get why she's angry with Chantal wanting to use her platform for the same goal (putting BLM into the forefront) but I'm just chalking it up to Nova being selfish like always.

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It wasn't like this in the beginning, but I'm rooting for Charley now. Nova is a straight up hypocrite. She's all over the place and she's grown to annoy me. Vi is also self righteous and wrong a lot.

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They got too many storylines for Nova. You don't have an affair with some man that is married without feelings that draw you to him. Then jump into bed with a women, steal from your sister, write an investigative journalist piece, plan a funeral, run a 300 acre farm and endure a hurricane while saving every old person in the Parrish. This isn't Super Girl. She spends way too much in bed to accomplish all this.

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[quote] This isn't Super Girl. She spends way too much time in bed to accomplish all this. [\quote]

LOL! Your comment nailed it on the head and you brought up a serious out hole. How did she get over Calvin so quickly? I presumed she had feelings for him since she was sitting in the car waiting for him.

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Charley has also made some poor decisions and has been reckless when it came to others (the workers, the mistress). No character is flawless. I like all of their complexities. I need to know more about Nova at this point though. I'm not sure why she is the way she is?

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Yes. All of them, except for Aunt Vi, have made poor choices. I'm really surprised with Ralph Angel. He claimed to work side by side with their father but he is as green as his sisters. It's odd all of them are green. I don't know anyone who's grown up on a farm as green as these three. I guess its for drama. Children grow up working on their family farms from the jump.

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Coco, that occurred to me as well. They all seem so disaffected from their father and his experience. Aunt Vi's revelations seem to be coming at them as a total shock. Why is that?

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In the first episode, didn't the father express how proud he was of his daughters' accomplishments?

Does anyone remember what year the father purchased the land?

Have you considered he didn't own the farm yet when Nova and Charley were young? And in the Land of Opportunity, what parents want their children to grow up and become sharecroppers?

It's my guess that the Bordelon kids were encouraged to receive an education and flourish in their chosen careers. The farm wasn't a family thing yet, it was Daddy's thing. Charley only visited occasionally. I'm guessing there was a little resentment from Nova (you know how daughters side with their mothers) over Daddy's treatment of her mother which accounts for her "distance." And Ralph Angel knew as much (or as little) as he did about farming because he was Daddy's Boy, the one at home with the father.

The farm didn't become a family thing until the father passed away and left his legacy to his children.

JMO and I'm never afraid to be wrong.



Some have such a low esteem they create reasons to hate everyone else.

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They said that the farm came into the Bordelons' hands during the Depression, so the kids had to have been exposed to it their whole life.

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I'm sure as children, Nova and Ralph Angel had minor chores. We've been shown that both know a little something.

Nova grows things. She understands the nutritive and healing properties of her produce. RA was probably a little more interested in working with his father before he went wayward. But neither had enough exposure (interest or desire) to make them knowledgeable farmers.

Full-time employees of a company don't have the company's big picture. Many barely perform the required tasks outlined in their job descriptions. No one expects the front desk receptionist to be able to fill in for the lead chemist or sales executive on the fly.

Yet they're all learning, committed, and pitching in with what they can physical, cerebral and monetary.



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Charley has also made some poor decisions and has been reckless when it came to others (the workers, the mistress). No character is flawless. I like all of their complexities.

She's actually growing on me now that she's willing to get her hands dirty to get things done. I prefer flawed characters to righteous ones

I need to know more about Nova at this point though. I'm not sure why she is the way she is?

I don't know what you're referring to specifically but she's a bit of a free-spirit while at the same time carrying a lot of guilt and the need to redeem it through caring for others. I don't know if it's linked to her past, her mother or just what she's witnessed and the need to do more and the guilt of not having done enough.


For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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They got too many storylines for Nova. You don't have an affair with some man that is married without feelings that draw you to him. Then jump into bed with a women, steal from your sister, write an investigative journalist piece, plan a funeral, run a 300 acre farm and endure a hurricane while saving every old person in the Parrish. This isn't Super Girl.

That's called being involved. I know people who are active within their communities who do even more.

She spends way too much in bed to accomplish all this.

LOL jealous?

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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So glad you brought up Nova stealing the money. It amazes me how many people want to dismiss that. Especially because I know full well that if it happened to these same people in real life they would be loaded for bear. Seriously.

Good cause has nothing to do with it. The money was not hers. And there is nothing more to say about it than that.

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