Police 100% did it - Making a Murderer (2015) Discussion

[–] kettlemckie 8 years ago

Lets say they owed 36 million. Then set him up. Not long after hes arrested and settles the lawsuit for 400,000 to pay his lawyers etc. Why then do the prosecution need or want a conviction. If it was about the 36 million they wouldnt care either way and why take brendan down with
him.

The 36 millions already out the way wouldnt make a difference to them if he got put away anyway. Why allow brendan to incriminate himself they already had more than enough to put steve away. The thing is why would they even want to anyway bearing in mind the 36 millions been dealt with.

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[–] csb1391 8 years ago

He got 400,000 regardless... he was goi g to sue on top of that they just needed to get depositions from kococuck (whatever) and vogul it was a week before there depo's all this went down

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[–] berniegfletcher 8 years ago

How much did police officers end up paying? ..zero.
What were they individually going to pay otherwise? ... Zero.
Questions about SA you answered?..zero.
Evidence that LE killed TH?...zero.
Sorry, your batting average is...zero.
Do you think people should be accused of murder without any evidence whatsoever?
For the record I hope BD gets out soon. He never would have been in trouble without his uncle.

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[–] csb1391 8 years ago

they went after Brendan Dassie because that was the only story they could go after entire case was based around the statement he gave in the interview with Mark which there was no physical evidence to back up any of it it was just a story and they went with it ... police didn't have to pay anything because Avery couldn't handle going through with the lawsuit and trying to fight these new accusations because of this TH murder he couldn't file the lawsuit and the county wouldn't have to pay

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[–] berniegfletcher 8 years ago

I know this is the "post-truth" era, but...actually SA was charged with murder in Nov. 2005. There was a mountain of evidence pointing to SA including his blood in her vehicle, her burned cell phone in a burn barrel, her bones in his fire pit, as well as witness testimony that TH was last seen walking toward SA's trailer.

BD's story did not come out until 4 months later in 2006. BD was not a suspect until he talked to his cousin and she talked to a school counsellor. BD did not testify in SA's trial.

Individual policemen were never going to be on the hook for SA's lawsuit which was never going to pay $36 million. Insurance would pay or at worst, the county. The officers on duty on Oct. 31, 2005 were not around in 1985 anyway.

The lawsuit was filed before the murder and SA settled to pay for his criminal lawyers. There was never any guarantee SA would win the suit for a huge amount. Police had been cleared of personal wrongdoing. SA spent 6 years of the 18 years for running a cousin off the road and pointing a loaded gun at her, ordering her into his vehicle.

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[–] csb1391 8 years ago

and the cousin in court said she made it up to the counselor

The found a burn pit on the other side of the every property that had more bones possibly a primary burn site then moved

And no probably not 36 million was still a number the county could not afford..they said its a poor town a lawsuit like that would destroy any economy left in that town

During the civil suit the were going to get deposition from korocoruck and Vogul had that happened someone was going to get thrown under the bus too many holes they needed to do something they killed Th oct 31..6 days before there depo's

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[–] berniegfletcher 8 years ago

You seem to like the word "they". Who specifically is "they" as in "they did it" or "they said it's a poor town a lawsuit like that would destroy any economy left in that town"? If that were the case (it's not), what jury would award SA millions of their own money? Insurance or the State was going to pay and did.

If LE were really out to "get" SA at all costs, LE would have charged SA with the rape of his niece (read the file, you'll be shocked) or the other woman he allegedly raped. If LE were so corrupt, they would have "found" bags of cocaine in SA's car or staged a fight or shootout. They certainly wouldn't kill an innocent woman. Absurd. You would have to believe in a huge conspiracy involving LE with no personal stake.

As for answering even one of my questions...still batting zero.

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[–] csb1391 8 years ago

And your dodging facts just like ken kratz did u must be related

I've already stated that the insurance companies told the county that they would not pay for any lawsuit due to the seriousness of the allegations. even if the state had to pay it would still cost tax to go up. if the judge found Steven Avery favorable in receiving money the state has to pay they can't just not pay because they can't afford it they would have to raise the money by raising taxes

you also asked why would police go after Brendan Dassie and I stated it was the only case police could go after was the only story they had. Police couldn't only go after Steven Avery and not go after Brendan .

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[–] Corpus_Vile 8 years ago

As for answering even one of my questions...still batting zero.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UijONDIfu6Y

Hey, look at that! She's not crazy, she's being chased by a cheetah!

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[–] doggie_rodriguez 8 years ago

Why then do the prosecution need or want a conviction. If it was about the 36 million they wouldnt care either way and why take brendan down with
him.

It would have looked really weird if they had let him off the hook after getting him to settle.

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[–] berniegfletcher 8 years ago

csb1391 Don't let facts get in the way of your opinions. There is zero evidence that police had anything to do with TH's murder. The police of 2005 were facing no personal financial responsibility for the events of 1985. You should be asking yourself questions like these:

Why did SA have dick pics on his computer Oct. 10?
Why didn't SA call TH directly on Oct. 31? (He had her cell phone no. and she had his.)
Why did SA lie about TH being at AST between 2 and 2:30? (not possible)
How did Bo. D's car disappear in the time SA went into his trailer and came back out?
Bo. D. saw TH walking to SA's trailer. She was never seen again.
Why did SA call TH using *67 twice?
Why did SA call TH's phone at 4:35 not using *67?
Why did SA want to sell his sister's van that she didn't want to sell?
Why did SA move the van down near his trailer and away from customers near the office?
How did SA cut his finger?
Why didn't SA use BD as his alibi?
Why didn't SA mention being with BD at a fire and cleaning up the garage?
Why did SA lie about having a fire that night?

Here's a helpful timeline from hooplehead at reddit

7:08…...Dawn Pliszka sends fax to TH 7:08-7:13 Brendan, Blaine go to school
8:12... SA Avery calls Auto Trader, books appt for B. Janda
8:17...TH receives unknown call
8:39...SA calls Barb's
9:46…….Pliszka calls TH, gets v/m
10:32...SA calls Earl Avery
10:44....TH receives unknown call
10:52....TH receives unknown call
11:00……TH calls A/T learns of Janda appt. 11:00…SA leaves work, tells no one.
11:04....TH calls v/m 11:10....TH receives unknown call 11:25....TH receives unknown call 11:27....TH calls v/m 11:31....TH calls D. Morrow. 11:35...TH calls D. Coakley. 11:43...TH leaves msg on Janda answering machine
12:07...SA calls Dept of Health 12:09...SA calls Tina T 12:09...SA calls Dept of Health 12:11...SA calls Dept of Health 12:16...SA calls Public Defender 12:18...SA calls Rick Rohl & Sons Construction.
12:29... TH receives unknown call 12:39...TH calls v/m 12:45...TH gets call from S. Speckman.TH receives text from B. Czech 12:51...TH calls S. Schmitz
1:16...SA calls Public defender
1:30(ish)...TH is at Schmitz home 1:52...TH receives unknown callCall goes to v/m 2:12…TH leaves v/m for Zipperers -can’t find house. 2:13.......TH calls v/m 2:24…….TH gets call from SA * 67 2:24...SA calls TH using * 67 2:27...TH gets call from DP says on her way to Avery’s
LAST TIME ANYONE SPEAKS TO TH
2:30ish...Bobby D sees TH arrive and take pictures, go toward SA's trailer.
LAST TIME TH IS SEEN ALIVE
2:35...TH gets call from SA * 67 2:35...SA calls TH using * 67
2:41...TH receives unknown call. CFNA engaged, call goes to v/m. 2:43...TH receives unknown call goes to v/m
2:45(ish)…Bobby D goes hunting sees her vehicle, but not TH. 2:45...SA goes to - check on Bobby. Not home.
3:40 Brendan, Blaine arrive home.
3:45 Blaine sees SA put bag in burn barrel
3:45-5:00 Brendan tells his mother he went over to Avery's and returned before she got home. Blaine says Brendan was home playing video games. Kayla states that Brendan told her he went to give Avery mail, saw TH pinned up, heard screaming, left.
4:21.....All Phone activity ceases on TH's phone
4:30(ish) Josh Radandt sees fire at SA's
4:35….. TH receives call from SA 4:35…SA calls TH
4:45- 5:00 Earl Avery and Robert Fabian see SA on way to rabbit hunting.
4:50 Barb returns from work, sees Brendan, Blaine and Bobby at home.5:00...Bryan Dassey comes home, sees Brendan (+Blaine +Bobby)
5:15...Scott Tadych picks Barb up, sees SA, with Barb and 1 of her younger sons.
5:20(ish) EA and RF come by SA's. EA sees SA staring at snowmobile. RF smells burning plastic from burn barrel. 5:36...SA gets call from Jodi on landline. 5:57...SA calls Chuck
5:15-6:00 MK calls for Blaine, speaks to Brendan
6:30-7:00...Bryan sees smoke coming from behind SA's garage, overhears SA speaking to Brendan about helping him with something. 7:45-8:00 Barb, Scott each state they see a large fire, 2 unknown people
9:20...SA calls Barb's.(busy) 9:30(ish) Bobby leaves, says he sees a large fire, but no people. 9:30...SA gets call from Jodi on landline. 11:00 Upon returning home, Blaine sees large fire, sees Steven standing, watching the fire.

Edit: Sorry this didn't paste and copy well. See the chart at Reddit SAIG

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[–] csb1391 8 years ago

Yes they were what do you think all the depositions were for in the beginning...for Stevens case against the county if that case hadn't been stopped by the TH disappearance

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[–] mme3924-1 8 years ago

Why did SA call TH using *67 twice?

This is a good question. Why do you think he did?

He already had made the appointment. He knew she was coming. So why call her? Was he desperate to hear her voice? Did he plan to talk dirty to her on the phone? Why call at all?

I don't understand the call and I don't understand why it is seen as "proof" that he had rape and murder on his mind. Maybe you can expound on that.

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[–] berniegfletcher 8 years ago

No one outside of the sleazy KK thinks this is "proof" of anything in itself. Avery supporters like to isolate events. Look at the whole picture of what SA was doing that day...taking off work, not phoning TH directly in the morning, giving his sister's home phone as the contact number knowing she was at work all day. changing his clothes, using *67 twice, then not using *67 at 4:35 pm plus his string of lies in later interviews, not using BD as an alibi, saying he was alone that night with no fire. Few think he had rape and murder on his mind, but s**t happens. Was TH ignoring him? Or telling stories about him? How did that work for SM in 1985?

Only SA can answer these questions and he never has. It is difficult to get inside the mind of a woman abusing, cat torturing, niece raping idiot, but I think SA was impatient waiting for TH to arrive. She was supposed to be there just after 2. He dials *67 to disguise who is calling (there is no other reason). TH doesn't answer and SA hangs up. He's an angry man with no impulse control. Why didn't he leave a message? Why not *67 at 4:35? Does SA think *67 calls are untraceable? He told someone that day that TH had not shown up.

Someone at or near ASY killed TH. One of SA or Bo.D. is lying about the time TH "left". The last time TH was seen alive was around 2:45 with TH walking toward SA's trailer. TH is never seen or heard from again. She never uses her phone.

I really hope BD takes a deal (unlikely)and gets out with time served on a lesser charge...and tells the truth.

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[–] Ro-bust 8 years ago

Was he desperate to hear her voice?

That's what I would put my money on, but obviously couldn't prove it.

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[–] scalleypj 8 years ago

Okay BUT in that timeline (I realize that you didn't make it, it is stated that 2:45 is the last time TH is seen alive, by the older Dassey brother.

HOWEVER --- The bus driver testifies to seeing TH taking pictures between 3:30PM and 3:40PM.

To me, she is the most credible witness between the Dassey's, Kayla, SA, and Scott.

She has no reason to lie, and nothing to gain. No one she is trying to protect. Even months later, her ability to produce a window of time for when she saw TH is the MOST reliable and credible. She stops on the property at the same time 5 days a week. Again, she has no connection to anyone involved (aside from being the bus driver). What I mean is, she has no probable reason to lie. Not saying that SA, BD, BD, or Scott ARE lying, however we could come up with a reason for why each of them could benefit from lying.

Why this is important....if TH is alive and taking pictures at 3:45, that timeline is thrown off completely.

What do you think about this...curious to hear your thoughts.

Im not completely sold on any one suspect or motive. Interesting getting perspective from others.

Honestly, my gut tells me it was Scott (Janda??) and Bobby Dassey. They knew she was coming, and knew that if they pinned it on Steven, the investigatiors would get tunnel vision...they would only focus on SA (which is what happened) just my thoughts. Like I said, I havent made up my mind at all.

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[–] berniegfletcher 8 years ago

The bus driver did NOT remember the date she saw TH. Her memory is vague about the actual date. She said she saw a woman taking photos near where the bus turns around which is nowhere near the location of the van on Oct. 31. She saw a woman near 3 vehicles, including a crappy old van and SA's Pontiac, all close to the bus turnaround which is at least 200 yards/m. from the trailers.

If the van was down by the trailers (where SA likely moved it on or before Oct. 31), it is not possible for the bus driver to know whether a van is crappy or not. Clearly the bus driver is talking about a different date, likely Oct. 10 when TH was down by the office where SA's vehicle (for the hustle shot)was parked alongside the van and another vehicle.

Clearly either SA or Bo. D. is not telling the truth about when or if TH left. SA says between 2 and 2:30 pm. This is clearly impossible as TH was on her way to ASY during her 2:27 phone call with Auto Trader and SA is phoning TH at 2:24 and 2:35. SA says he uses his cell phone for time (no watch)so he knew what time he phoned TH.

I would agree that the killer is someone at or near Avery Salvage. ST did not live there and was visiting his mother in hospital that afternoon and again that night with SA's sister.

Bo. D. worked nights and wouldn't have known TH was coming that day. He has no history of violence and no reason to lie about seeing TH walking toward SA's trailer about 2:45 pm. SA clearly lies about Bo. D. saying TH left, SA went into his trailer, came right back out to go visit Bo. D., sees TH's vehicle turn left at Hwy 147, then sees Bo. D's car is gone.

This makes no sense. Where did Bo. D.'s magical car go in less than a minute? If Bo.D's car left before TH, SA would not be headed over to the D's (no one home). If the car left after TH, it would be visible on Avery Rd.

The problem with lies is that lies makes it harder to keep a story straight. In his many interviews SA does not mention that he spent much of the evening stoking a fire with BD and cleaning his garage, an innocent activity in itself. SA says he was alone. Why not use his alibi witness? Why doesn't BD at first say he was with SA? Why did SA lie about not having a fire?

You should realize that MaM intentionally edits out words and even whole sentences on at least 3 occasions (AC's testimony, TH's message left on BJ's machine and ST's fire testimony). Ask yourself why.

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[–] Jinkaroo 8 years ago

I'm going to sound like a sicko here, but from the perspective of the police involved, I think this is important to ask: why not just kill Steven Avery?

I mean, really, why not? The primary goal here is for no massive lawsuit to happen that could cost them millions, right? No Steven, no lawsuit. The chief of police said in an interview they showed that it would be much easier to just kill him. Well, he's right. Why go through this crazy, elaborate, very complicated framing and kill a completely innocent woman all just to get Steven convicted? He could get out again one day possibly and try to sue all over again. Dead rats don't squeak.

If we are to believe the Manitowoc police are corrupt enough to murder a completely innocent young woman just to save their own skin, why not believe they would do away with someone like Steven, a man they clearly despise and were always out to get? They have the ability and resources to pull it off, are likely knowledgeable enough to get rid of any evidence that they did it, and could easily get away with it. Even if it seems suspicious that Avery is killed in the eye of this pending lawsuit, it all comes down to what can be proven. As long as they get rid of any and every piece of evidence, they won't be convicted of murder. Also, Steven was a hated man- a man in prison for 18 years and was released a few years prior. It's reasonable that the general public could conclude that someone who hated him or believed him guilty killed him.

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[–] FactUnderChecK 8 years ago

No Steven, no lawsuit.

common misconception. Avery being dead doesn't make the civil suit go away.

Forcing avery to accept a settlement that also absolved the defendants individually and the state as a whole was essentially the perfect outcome for them.

A multi million dollar career and reputation saving stroke of luck if avery really did decide to murder her out of the blue.

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[–] Corpus_Vile 8 years ago

Indeed or rather than kill him why not just simply plant drugs on his felon ass? That would be even easier and less risky and would pretty much send him away for a long time. There are far far easier less risky ways to frame people than pulling off an almost impossible convoluted frame up such as they're supposed to have done here.
I think your point simply stinks of too much common sense for Avery supporters cuz hey- conspiracy.
I asked this on another forum re drugs and was told that who knew why criminals planned and thought the way they did, as an honest to God fuhreelz no foolin' answer so...there y'go...

Hey, look at that! She's not crazy, she's being chased by a cheetah!

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[–] paranoja 8 years ago

Indeed or rather than kill him why not just simply plant drugs on his felon ass?

Exactly. Or just arrest him for owning a gun for that matter - I'm pretty sure convicted felons aren't allowed to own weapons. Or why not pursue him for the accused rape of his niece? Or his abuse of his girlfriend? Steven's not the innocent guy MaM likes to pretend he is.

Also, why kill a seemingly random woman who had been at the Avery property a couple of times? Why not kill his girlfriend or his ex-wife, who he had sent threatening letters to previously?

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[–] csb1391 8 years ago

I would be so suspicious Avery just dies in the middle of a lawsuit plus he probably never left the junk yard lawyers told him be careful

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[–] Moonlighty 8 years ago

That's a lot less supicious and easier to do than killing someone else on that property.

-
Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

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[–] typherkid 8 years ago

Okay, it's clear they did it, in the videos, they didn't want to be seen as putting the wrong person away, people would lose faith in the justice system, which is so currupt now. I would not be surprised if they have offered money to family members to stab him in the back.

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