Prince Of Prance


So I've been reading some criticisms against the Holden character and him being cold and what not, but nobody wants to acknowledge the true issue of the character: he is being played by a monumentally noticeable gay actor. I saw him on the Colbert show and I was bullied into oblivion for being 1/10th the effeminate that he is. 20 years ago he would never have been given a chance. I'm not saying that gays shouldn't get straight roles, sure, get them, but was it fair to destroy Rupert Everrett's career, who played straight convincingly because he was gay? While Prince Of Prance is able to get away with his prancing in straight roles? It's fascinating to me how most people would tolerate the same behavior in one people and then repudiate it in others, for no reason apparently.

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Are you a repressed homosexual? There is some latent homosexuality going on based on your posting history. You should talk to a professional about it. You would feel a lot better if you would just admit it to yourself and others.

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Ha! I was getting that vibe, too! This troll is an idiot with some issues, that's for sure.

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I'm gay and not repressed at all, I'm merely stating the facts, he's insanely gay and if it was somebody else no one would tolerate it, and objectively speaking, gays playing straight doesn't work unless you are uber macho like Rock Hudson and he is way far from that.

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I had no problem at all with the performance. Most rational people didn't.

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I think his vulnerability works for the character. His character is not supposed to be a man’s man.
He’s an introvert, perhaps even on the spectrum.

I also didn’t know the actor was gay and never got that vibe. And if you say things like gays can’t play straight you clearly don’t understand the craft of acting.

I honestly feel you have some self loathing going on, like a jewish nazi.

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lol please, whatever. Keep Obamaing.

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lol please, whatever?

You argue like a 12 year old girl. You should stay of the message boards, this is just embarrassing for you.

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No you should stay off. You don't get that vibe?? Please, he's as obviously gay as they come. And it is YOU that doesn't understand sexuality, gender dysphoria and so many factors, this is not about acting but since you mention acting he's a shit actor too, so.

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embrace your gayness

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Well, the gayness of the main actor only mattered in how the relationship between Holden and his girlfriend was weak... It didn't seem like he was into her even before all the weirdness due to going deep into the minds of serial killers...

Was the main character meant to be closeted? Or his sexuality ambiguous? I don't know... It did give [spoiler] the final scene of the series an odd dimension that I'm not sure was intentional, his reaction to the hug... [/spoiler] but it wasn't a massive issue as the series is much more about process and the development of ideas and practices rather than characters...

The thing is, Fincher has been successful in creating characters who are not gay and are sexually unambigious (The Game, Gone Girl, Se7en, etc..) even though he has also made movies with sexually ambigious characters (Fight Club, House of Cards, etc...) so I don't think it's the directing... unless it is intentional, as a way to explore sexuality as a theme of the series...

Has this actor played straight successfully before? I haven't seen his other movies...

We should be able to discuss this in a respectful way, right? It's 2017 and shouldn't be a taboo subject...

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In 2017 there is no such thing as an acceptable criticism. Nobody dares to say that Obama was the Mr. Selfie president, and one of the worst. Everything is a preconceived narrative that has to be followed down to a T. We are living in the world of 1984 and it is NOT Trump's fault because we've been living like this for a very, very long time. See, liberalism is the new fascism.

Having said that, gay playing straight just doesn't work, that is why they remained in the closet, because it gave them a veneer of plausibility, but once that is gone you realize that there was always something off with them. Like Jodie Foster. She's gender dysphoric, in other words, she is a man in a woman's body, I can tell, and in all her performances there is something incredibly manly about her, and looking back that's all you see, her performances have crumbled and so has her career. It's just the way it is.

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Please take your medication. You really need it.

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I can see that a bit in Foster's performances... Even as a child actor in Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore...

Also, I don't think it's just our perception of the celebrities, rather I think it is something in their acting... For example, I think Matt Bomer plays straight much better than Groff (who plays Holden Ford), despite him being a good looking gay man... Could he pull off playing a Robert Mitchum type character? No, absolutely not. But he could play a contemporary, cosmopolitain straight man as a lot of them are very metrosexual and blur gender lines more than previous generations... This is just a guess, I haven't seen him do it.

I think in most cases it's just poor acting. It's especially clear in the scenes between Groff and the woman who plays his girlfriend... It's like he isn't even trying to act straight and I noticed this before learning that the actor was a gay man, as I haven't seen his work before... I still wonder if it was intentional... It's a huge contrast to his co-star Holt McCallany.

I am not very familair with celebrity culture, so I tend not to know who is gay or straight, but I do watch a lot of movies... It's striking how little hetrosexual masculinity there is on screen nowadays... It's usually just infantalised boy-men, or desexualised characters, as even gay characters are rare jn big movies these days... but sometimes with TV shows it's more the case of ambigious sexuality as it is here in Mindhunters.

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well Jodie Foster is a great actress but what can I say?? She's a man. Lots of transexual people choose to live as gay people, it's a fact and this comes across in her performances. I was recently rewatching scenes of The Accused and it just doesn't work. Queen Latifah is another man. She hasn't come out yet because I hate to say it but it DOES affect the way you perceive the actor and their ability to portray characters convincingly.

Believe me it is not intentional. Telling Groff to man up would be a huge no no nowadays so people are just going to turn the blind eye and delude themselves into being impressed by his flamboyant acting. His appearance on Stephen Colbert and the way Groff looked at him up and down and tilted his head like a flirtatious woman and then started shimmying his shoulders along to the music, I mean it's laughable. I'm not lying, you can go check the video yourself, the only thing that boggles my mind like I said is how some people tolerate that behavior in some but not others. I fell under the category of the intolerables, lord knows why. Either way Groff is shit and he ruins this show and no one will admit it but it won't change the fact that it is bad and it won't stand the test of time.

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I'm not familiar with Groff and like I said on another that, he came across as very gay to me too. But that and his acting I think is the weakest on this show unfortunately.

I think a lot of British actors, including gay ones are very convincing in playing straight characters.

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Even in Maverick? She was very feminine in that one.

I think plenty of gays can play straight convincingly but plenty like this actor unfortunately can't. But it does help if their sexuality isn't out in the open, it helps with the illusion.

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i haven't seen Maverick... is it any good? I like Foster

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I find it to be a very good film and a lot of guys have major crushes on Foster in that. I have to say she's the most beautiful in that film.

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Cool... i'll add it to the list...

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"In 2017 there is no such thing as an acceptable criticism. Nobody dares to say that Obama was the Mr. Selfie president, and one of the worst. Everything is a preconceived narrative that has to be followed down to a T. We are living in the world of 1984 and it is NOT Trump's fault because we've been living like this for a very, very long time. See, liberalism is the new fascism."
Holy shit, what does this have to do with your topic? You know what's interesting? That the person who's ridiculing Obama a year after he's been out of office and bashing on liberalism is the same person who had to forsake all common sense in shoe-horning this little diatribe in.
It might just be me, but it seems like there's a pretty strong parallel between support for Trump and idiocy.

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It didn't bother me except for the relationship part. It just wasn't that believable, or authentic (?) (something like that). But it wasn't just him, the actress too. They had zero chemistry. And those sex scenes... I didn't think they were needed, except maybe to show that some of the "deviant" behaviour the FBI deems such isn't that deviant at all. But it sure didn't seem like those two were into eachother, at all.

As for the performance as a whole, I just thought he was bland in the beginning. As the season went on I kind off got used to his acting though. In the grand scheme of the show it doesn't much matter whether he is more effeminate or not.

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There was a shot of his ass because within the gay community his ass is like a cool thing. I'm gay and I do not agree with things like that and with a lot of what is going on today, so just something you should think about, if you are comfortable with seeing a show and paying for product that does things like this, pandering to the gay community to the point of heterosexual erasure. Your choice.

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How should I put this... I don't care! But I enjoy seeing a butt every now and again.

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Gay or not, this Groff guy is one of THEE WORST actors I have ever seen. He is wooden and stilted. He is a god-awful bore. I do not know how he go this part. Maybe on the casting couch?

The other actors really aren't too bad. His partner, Mr Smokes Alot, is ok. I've seen him on a few other TV shows. I don't know if I like him, probably I don't. And a small gripe about him. He doesn't look like a real life smoker!! It's so obvious that he isn't. It just bugs me no end.

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I didn't realise that the actor was gay either unless I read it on these boards. I just interpret this relationship with his girlfriend as awkward because he was a virgin prior to and inexperienced. He also seems a bit socially awkward.

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does it say on the show he was a virgin?

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It's insinuated.

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how? I totally missed that.

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In his first meeting with Ed Kemper when he was bragging about getting women, Ed basically saw through his bragging and said he was a virgin until meeting his current girlfriend, and the look on Ford's face basically confirmed it.

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totally missed that.

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im not gay

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