The Trans Discussion

Good points. It is a thought provoking episode. Personally, I don't think it would matter to me, what parts they had previously, if the parts they had currently were a match to my preference.

But, I'm a woman, and in my experience, as a general rule, men are far more bothered by the possibility than women are. The only (rare) women I have come in contact with that have had an issue with it, were for:

1. Religious reasons
OR
2. Fear that a hetero man was just "pretending" so he could take advantage of women (the bathroom issue) - it's the whole: testosterone = a propensity for aggression/violence thing.


"Arguing with idiots is like trying to play chess with a pigeon..."

I actually talked/thought about that episode the most of all of them, I think. I am also a woman, but I happen to be a lot more interested in the science of things, than the societal expectations people have. I'm an atheist, so I don't have religious reasons for not being okay with accepting transgenders, however I do think once you head to the bedroom, things become more complicated. I mentally tend to identify more with males than females, so I do feel like I have a decently open perspective. If I were a male, I think I would be very turned off mentally to know that someone didn't bother to reveal to me sooner than the bedroom, if their gender was different previously. As a woman, I absolutely feel the same way, but feel it's even more important for a male, from a biological perspective. We are still animals, after all.

Everything matters. If your brain tells you something isn't natural for you, it's because it isn't. For you. If your brain tells you that it's okay and you can handle this new situation and type of person, then that's natural for you. Both are okay. Everyone in the liberal, so called "open minded" society needs to understand that both feelings are okay, regardless of the reasons why. I think more people would be uncomfortable with the idea than not when it comes to their bedroom, in all honesty, and for good reason. Because for a lot of us, (but mostly speaking for myself though I did talk to many others about this), the idea of potentially procreating with anyone who is mentally or physically not the norm, is not a preferable one. You wonder how your children could turn out (barring an 'oops!' baby, or if a long term relationship is possible), and the prevalence of mental illness is hard enough to deal with, knowing full well that you are passing that on. I'm not saying that being transgender and everything else that's out there is some kind of mental illness or defect, but scientifically, there is a reason why it is not more common, or the majority, and most people would not want to take the risk in passing that on, (women are more compassionate than men typically, so this may be why they are generally more accepting of the idea). From a biological standpoint, you just desire what is most physically and mentally attractive, and it's hard to force yourself to become attracted to something different, and certainly abnormal. Therefore, I don't think the conversation the two had was very fair at all, since Rhonda did not seem even a little accepting of Horace's perspective as a straight male, and she was also clearly putting fear into him that she had possibly 'tricked' him in some way. Their conversation should have been had before the sex, not after (if she had actually been another gender, which IMO we still don't know). Basically, as a woman and speaking for my male friends, you should give the person you're going to bed with the choice to decide for themselves what they are okay with. You shouldn't want to be with someone who would not choose you if they knew the truth, and it is not fair to them.

We should not force people into believing that their natural instincts are wrong or evil, just because society suddenly decided it's trendy that everyone should have to be open to everything, or face ridicule. That goes for both transgenders, and the people who don't want to have a sexual relationship with them. Obviously it's very natural for a transgender, homosexual, bisexual or anyone else to be who they are, and that should be socially accepted, but it does not have to be accepted in the bedroom-- where your sexual instincts are very different from your politically correct ones.

Speaking more on the behalf of the episode itself and not the points of the discussion therein, I think the characterization of the episode did quite a bit to convey that Rhonda had her own human weaknesses and was not an effort to create an accurate representation of transgender society as a whole. As the show affirmed, she was a drunk and behaved kind of like any drunk going for a hook-up with another drunk, gender issues irrelevant. Whether or not she's right that a man shouldn't have to be told of her previous gender before having sex, she's also conveyed as the kind of person who *wouldn't* tell when just going for it. The show did a good job of showing her as a dysfunctional human being who happens to be trans.

To get more into the meat of the discussion itself, just speaking from some of my own natural feelings (picking up on HypnoticPoison's thread with how something just *feels* for you), I am a gay male and I found Rhonda to be kinda hot. I think one of the most heated discussions I've had on trans issues came when I was with a pansexual boyfriend and we came upon a transgender busker, really soulful singer, beautiful mocha skin and a very fluid, emotive face. Our discussion happened later when I mentioned that he was really attractive, and my friend was like, "you mean 'she'". and I said if he was a she then I probably wouldn't have found him attractive, and then the can of worms was opened, our friendly disagreement was talked over for a good two hours. I support the variety of self-expression, I want to listen to how others identify themselves and be respectful of that, but every once and a while I have these biological triggers that tell me another story. No harm or ignorance intended, they're just my feelings.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that they cannot have children, they were not born women. OP hit the nail on the head with the hypocrisy in "people who specifically get off on having sex with transgender people". So that means that only deviants would be open to a relationship with a transsexual? Why is it important for the man to be 100% straight? What if he's interested in women and passable trans women, is that not straight enough? No? Then too bad, because you aren't 100% a woman, but that's OK! I'm open to both, so I don't really care, but you still need to respect the wishes of those who aren't.


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Do you even rate, bro?

I'm all about equality.

but I'm also all about honesty. Trying to get someone to *beep* you while never disclosing the fact that you have or had a penis,....is wrong. Period.

If you disagree then you're shady.....and there's a point where being a liberal thinker starts to really hurt common sense.

I will share my view.
I am not very concerned with what others are doing, especially if it has no real effect on me and no actual negative effects on anyone.
I think people should just be more worried about their own lives, and less concerned about what others are doing.
I think if the way another person dresses, how they udentify themselves, or with whom they have sex, if that really bothers people, those people need to examine themselves to figure out why that stuff would bother them.

I don't think I would've cared if this particular women used to be a man. I think she was very nice.

If a transgendered woman has had surgery she has nothing to disclose. She's a woman. It's a bit different if she still has a penis but it is a cosmetic surgery issue and nothing more.

If men are really all about the honesty and it wasn't transphobia, then I'm sure they'd be equally outraged if they found out a woman had breast implants. Let's not try to pretend it's not what it is.

That said, Louie dropped the ball by having a cisgendered woman play the role as if she was a transgendered woman. It would have been more authentic if she was just friends with a transgendered woman and decided to make a point. But to play it for ambiguity was wrong.