With Rocky as a supporting character. The focus is now mainly on Adonis Creed, but we are still watching and have always been watching Rocky's journey and his development from a club fighter, a 2 time world champion, a broken fighter who loses almost everything, an older boxer returning to the ring, now a trainer and mentor to Adonis Creed. This might be Adonis Creed's story now, but it is also still very much Rocky's story to.
shareWho'd have thought!
shareI dont Know....
I think the reason why Creed succeeded so much was because It was NOT A Rocky film....
It was written by Cogler and He focused the story on Creed(they didnt even know if Stallone was going to accept the role tell late, There was a script/plan to make the movie with out Stallone if need be)The Story was A Creed Story, Stallone's role/Rocky was added to enhance Creed's story/The Script ....
Stallone Wrote Creed II this time.....and that could support your stance, He may very well let his ego get in the way and focus the story more on him....
But I'd like to think He'd realized Why The first one succeeded so much....He's actually a good writer, I think He'll Keep the story going in the right direction....
He's also got to want the Creed franchise to continue, He's so old now, He finally understands/Accepts his time to lead the franchise is done, I'd think he want to try and pass the torch so His Rocky Franchise can live on through Creed...
Stallone is also extremely Busy right now making many different movies....I just dont think He has the time or Motivation to Let his ego try and Hijack The story from Creed....
I could absolutely be wrong though....
but Cogler is a producer, He Picked/Suggested the director....I think everything points to This film continuing to focus on Creed.
I mean they still use the Rocky music, just with alterations so yeah it's Rocky 8. They're just bleeding every last dime out of the franchise. I honestly dont think they will make a Creed III. I dont know where they go after this. This one has the natural storyline and direct connection. There's nowhere to go after this.
share I honestly dont think they will make a Creed III.
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disagree....Creed II is tracking for a close to 50 Million Opening weekend, If it does, Part III is guaranteed...
as for where the franchise could go....IMO thats a non issue, were talking about a boxing film here, Theres always room for a new villain and challenge...
I mean you could have said the same thing about Rocky 1 and 2....the Apollo Creed storyline seemed to have ran its course, couldnt have make another film where Rocky fights Creed again, what to do with part 3?....and the answer was simply, a New challenge, A new Villain...Here Comes Mr T and Drago....
If Creed II is as big of a hit as its looking like its going to be...They'll have no problem making a 3rd one...
If Stallone wasn't involved, no one would watch these movies. If a third Creed movie was made without Stallone, it would bomb.
shareIf Stallone wasn't involved, no one would watch these movies. If a third Creed movie was made without Stallone, it would bomb.
^^^
I'm sorry but this factually isnt true, We know 100% that is an incorrect statement...
I'm not sure if you follow box office or not....but Rocky Balboa grossed 76 Million domestically....
Creed grosses over 100 Million....
that unequivocally proves The Creed films are getting not ONLY the Rocky/Stallone crowd but also adding another NEW crowd....
That crowd Is Mainly African Americans...
Creed II is currently tracking among African American's 3 times what any of the Rocky films did...
Michael B Jordan now really hits home with African Americans, He's been in all 3 of Coglers films...2 of them being HUGE favorites of the black community in Fruitvale Station and Black Panther...
Stallone's Draw is currently at about 20 to 40 Million domestically(or Less) outside The first 2 Expendables ....There is nothing to suggest Stallone can command The 42 Million Opening Creed had or what Creed II is going to open to....
I'm a massive Stallone fan, He certainly adds a lot to this film and Its appeal....but Michael B Jordan and his track record with Cogler is what is bringing in the biggest crowd right now for this film...
fandango did a Poll and Michael B Jordan and his awareness from Black Panther is among the highest tracking % and The #1 reason why people are buying tickets for Creed II...
Its perfectly fine if your not interested in A Creed film with out Rocky/stallone....But there is nothing that suggests Creed would flop with out Rocky, In fact all data points to Rocky being a very small selling point in the movie and not a big reason why people are buying tickets
I don't know if Creed would have been a flop without Stallone, well because he was in it and it was marketed with the Rocky brand, but I don't think it would have been nearly as successful.
Rocky Balboa brought in 76 domestically which was a surprise success and was one of the most critically accepted Rocky films since probably Rocky. Maybe because that film was actually good some of that success bled over into Creed, but hard to say since they are almost 10 years apart. If Creed followed Rocky V I don't think anybody would have been excited. I thought Creed was a little too close to the original Rocky in that the guy was a young boxer trying to prove himself, but mostly it was the ending where he goes the distance and loses by decision mirroring Rocky exactly.
Michael B. Jordon could easily carry the film himself NOW, after the success of Black Panther, but I don't think he could have done the same in 2015. Once Creed became a hit, you know they are making this at least a trilogy.
I thought it was interesting you left out that Stallone was also a producer for Creed. Additionally Rocky Balboa had a WW box office of 155 while Creed had 173. As a result I think you can conclude that Stallone/Rocky was a major reason as to why Creed was a hit. Personally, if it didn't have Rocky in it, I wouldn't be as excited, but probably would have seen it or at the very least rented it only because I am a big Rocky fan. I think the fact that it's actually a good movie also led to success.
I disagree to Rocky being a small selling point. Lets be honest and go back to the first film. Lets say the first film didn't feature Rocky at all. Say Adonis Creed shows up in Philadelphia and learns Rocky died, then he gets trained by a friend of Rocky, and they just make a few references to Rocky just like they did with Apollo. Would Creed 1 have been nearly as successful if that were the case? The answer is probably no. Say Rocky was killed off between this film and the last one, and it's just Adonis and a new mentor in this film. Basically Drago comes back and we never get to see him face down Rocky again. I'm sure we would all be thrilled about that.
Sylvester Stallone doesn't exactly draw in the crowds like he use to, but Rocky is what he is most known for and there are still many die hard fans out there who are willing to buy Creed just to get Rocky. I do agree MBJ is somewhat responsible for bringing in African American crowds, and also a younger crowd who may not have been very familiar with the Rocky Balboa universe. Carl Weathers also brought many African American fans to the table with his very cool and charismatic portrayal of Apollo Creed.
I highly doubt MBJ without Sly in Creed 3 would be nearly as popular. In fact they should just end it now. He is already going to face Ivan Drago and his son in Creed 2. Where else can the story go at this point? Creed 2 is reigniting the Rocky/Drago feud, Adonis will face the man who killed his father, and go the distance with his rotten son. Rocky will be forced to confront some old demons and Adonis will carry on Apollo's legacy. This is the kind of epic nostalgia fans want to see. Jordan alone cannot bring that to the table. Jordan, Stallone, and Lundgren together will sell more tickets and bring more fans in, old and new alike.
you didnt disagree with any thing I said...lol
All I'm arguing is Its clear and Undeniabl Creed I and Now II is getting A different crowd....
Its not possible to know what Creed I or II would make without Stallone/Rocky....
The data suggests Stallone could be bringing in anywhere from 25 to 40 Million dollars worth of Viewers/Crowd....Now I guess if you really wanted to push it, you could argue Rocky is his most Iconic Role and that would bring in his biggest crowd which based off Rocky 6 we know is 70 M...But I do not believe If Creed was never made and instead it was Rocky 7 that the same crowd that showed up for Rocky 6 would come back....I think Stallone's draw has clearly went down....
so I'm in no way arguing Stallone/Rocky isnt a big part of the movies selling point and that the movie WOULD NOT make less without him....
But The Poster said "It would Flop without Stallone"..........his exact quote was "If Stallone wasn't involved, no one would watch these movies. If a third Creed movie was made without Stallone, it would bomb."
This statement is in no way true...We have undeniable and indisputable facts that There is A Big and New Audience seeing Creed films for reasons NOTHING to do with Stallone or Rocky....
IMO the data clearly shows Creed probably would have been a success without Rocky and could have made between 60 to 75 Million ....
Creed II 's success is clearly coming More from Michael B Jordan and his Role in BB and FS with Cogler...
Nothing about Stallone's Box office History suggests he capable of a 48 M dollar Opening weekend like Creed II is tracking...The #1 reason listed why people are buying tickets is Michael B Jordan and His Role in BB..
The Highest Ticket sales are from African Americans....
The data is Undeniabl....Stallone/Rocky is absolutely A big selling point, Its certainly bringing in A certain audience, The 2 films certainly would MAKE LESS without Rocky/Stallone.....But to say "It would flop and no one would see it" is simply factually not true....
We have indisputable evidence that Theres is a New Audience seeing Creed films that Never saw Rocky films and are seeing The Creed films for other reasons than Stallone/Rocky...
and that crowd May very be be BIGGER than the crowd seeing the movie for Stallone/Rocky....
so thats my point, Stallone isnt a tiny selling point, He may very well be a BIG selling in the movie, but Theres also no denying that data clearly states Creed/Michael B Jordan is either as Big or Bigger of a selling point that is bringing in a completely new crowd
that unequivocally proves The Creed films are getting not ONLY the Rocky/Stallone crowd but also adding another NEW crowdIt does? share
how can you ask that question?
Rocky Balbo made 70 Million.....
If People were only going to see Creed because of Rocky, Creed would have made no more than 70 Million....
Creed Opened Higher than Rocky and made more domestically
That 100% proves, There are New people, a different audience also seeing Creed films....
I'm in no way saying Rocky/Stallone doesnt have any impact on the film....In fact I agree If Rocky/Stallone wasnt in the films The Box Office would Be LOWER
But All Data points to there being A Big Part of the audience that Is NEW, that are African American, that are seeing The Movie for a DIFFERENT reason than Stallone/Rocky...
Bo.com is predicting Creed II to open to 48 Million +.....and The Reason why Is Its tracking extremely well among African Americans, all listing Michael B Jordan in Black Panther as the #1 reason why They want to see it....
Its impossible to tell what Creed I or II would make without stallone/Rocky....but the facts are undeniable.... since making his come back in 2006....Stallone has not shown The Ability to Open a films anywhere near Creed I or II is opening...
Rocky Baloa Opened to 21 M and Made 70 M total
Rambo opened to 18 Million and Made 44 Million total
Bullet to the Head opened to 4 M and Made 9 M total
Escape Plan Opened to 9 M and Made 26 M total
Grutch Match Opened to 7 Million and made 29 M
The Expendables 3 opened to 15 M and made 39 Million
You can clearly see, Stallone has an audience and a draw number.....
NOTHING suggests he is capable of a 42 or 48 Million dollar Opening that Creed had and Creed II is Tracking....
Creed II is clearly Getting Stallones crowd PLUS another New and difference audience, Hence The Box office numbers Being bigger than anything Stallone is capable of ...
If you cant understand this, Its kinda scary....This is Math, Its not something that is debatable...
to me it seems like you are letting your own personal Opinions get it the way on Logic's...
it seems YOU ARE NOT Interested in A Creed Movie with out Rocky and Want to believe No one else is either despite all facts proving other wise
how can you ask that question?Your conclusion does not flow from your premise. share
Rocky Balbo made 70 Million.....
If People were only going to see Creed because of Rocky, Creed would have made no more than 70 Million....
ok at this point its clear your beat and you know it....
You have no answer for why Creed made more than Rocky 6 if audiences are only going because of Stallone/Rocky....
you have no answer for why The biggest number of tickets sold are from African American Whom all list Michael B Jordan as the #1 reason they are seeing the film....
If You come up with anything that can remotely be considered an answer or comeback to these facts, Respond back....
If not, dont even bother responding back...
It clear your only responding back now to try and get the last word because Your "If Stallone wasn't involved, no one would watch these movies. If a third Creed movie was made without Stallone, it would bomb." statement went down in FLAMES ...
You have no answer for why Creed made more than Rocky 6 if audiences are only going because of Stallone/Rocky....Plenty of reasons. Inflation, the fact that it was released in about 500 more theatres than Rocky Balboa, the fact that Rocky fans who saw Rocky Balboa in home video (but not in theatres) were more likely to give this one a shot, and a few curious new peeps. The truth is, there were a few new peeps but that crowd would not be enough to make the film profitable.
That would make sense except......
We know the majority of tickets being sold are from African Americans who list there #1 reason to see the film is Michael B Jordan....
theres a reason why you did try to answer this--- you have no answer for why The biggest number of tickets sold are from African American Whom all list Michael B Jordan as the #1 reason they are seeing the film....
and the reason is you cant answer it...
Inflation doesnt equal the amount CREED made more than Rocky 6....and it certainly not going to be close with Creed II.....Creed II is heading toward a 59 Million OW and a 150 Million + domestic gross....
Inflation doesnt cover that...New Stallone fans dont cover that(lol There are no new Stallone fans, His films are making Less and Less at the box office)
The Only possible explanation for why Creed I made more than Rocky 6 is....Is got a new audience....
and Now With Creed II exploding just as the tracking predicted....Its 100% clear that new audience is African American....Black Panther was a cultural event....that movie truly meant something to African Americans.....
Michael B Jordan is now an actor that African Americans follow....He is bringing in New and now with Creed II exploding clearly LARGER fan base than Stallone...
and "The Truth is"....this cant be argued....The data is taken from Ticket sales, all the tickets sold with credit and debit card proves the Majority of the audience is African American, With the strongest being YOUNG African American, that is a fanbase that appeal ONLY to MBJ....
I'm sorry you fought a good fight, Its clear you like Stallone, But you are beat....theres no getting around these facts
Creed didn't really make that much more than Rocky 6 overall. You kind of act like it's this huge discrepancy.
Creed: 109 domestic (116 adjusted if you're being technical), 173 worldwide
Balboa: 70 domestic (94 adjusted), 156 worldwide
https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/custom-comparisons/Rocky-Balboa/Creed
In the grand scheme of things, if you're just looking at box office results, it's only a discrepancy of 22 and 17.
"We know the majority of tickets being sold are from African Americans who list there #1 reason to see the film is Michael B Jordan...."
"theres a reason why you did try to answer this--- you have no answer for why The biggest number of tickets sold are from African American Whom all list Michael B Jordan as the #1 reason they are seeing the film...."
-Source for largest tickets sold broken down by ethnic group? How do you know this is a fact?
Sure more people went and saw Creed over Rocky 6. We know more tickets were sold and obviously it made more money and attracted new and old fans, but how do you know if someone went and saw Creed because they were a Stallone/Rocky fan, fan of MBJ, fan of a new take on the series, fan of boxing, retired and see every movie out there?
I just think for Creed, the major draw in that film was Stallone/Rocky. Obviously MBJ and a new take on the story, instead of Rocky going to fight again, brought new people in and of course MBJ has fans. Rocky is old, we don't need to see him fight again, but it was interesting to see where his story goes. I do not think it would have been nearly as successful without him and possibly a flop, but there is no way to know this. You keep saying the largest number of tickets sold were from African Americans who only came as MBJ fans. Post some sources to back up what you say are undisputed facts please.
I don't disagree with anything about Creed II. MBJ is a big enough star today to draw in large numbers with Stallone making as much as a cameo.
We know the majority of tickets being sold are from African Americans who list there #1 reason to see the film is Michael B Jordan....GTFO with that. Is every ticket buyer being profiled and interviewed? (Hint: the answer is no) Lol. This is a BS claim and there's no way to back it up.
Is every ticket buyer being profiled and interviewed
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did I even remotely say that ??? NO
I said The Majority....
The Could be 51%....or it could be 70%....
But what I specically said was The MAJORITY....I would never PUKE out something like "every ticket being sold"
what I said was simply and based 100% on facts...
This is a BS claim and there's no way to back it up.
^^^
The ONLY reason I said it is because its A FACT that can be proven and Backed up....
do you know what Fandango is?
Its a site where People Buy tickets to see Movies...
almost everyone uses a credit or debut card to buy these tickets....This 100% allows Fandango to track the Identity and Race of The ticket Purchaser....
that is how Fanadgo knows the Majority of The tickets being sold are coming from African Americans....Its not something you can argue, I'm sorry...Its just Analytics....
Next...The reason why we know "African Americans list Their #1 reason to see the film is Michael B Jordan....".....is
When you purchase tickets from Fandango and other sites, When making the purchase of tickets...most do POLLS and ask The Purchaser Why they are seeing this film/ buying the ticket...The Polls have usually 4 Options.
Those result Unequivocally revealed The Overwhelming Majority of people that bought tickets to see Creed IIl listed Michael B Jordan as The #1 reason they were seeing this film....
Its also worth noting...Every Major studio does similar Tracking like this to gauge where The Audiences Interest is...This is how tracking is done, This is how Studios know how to market a movie to where it will Net the most Interest from Viewers who see the trailers and Promo's
WB is also reporting The Overwhelming Majority of people who saw the film and listed Michael B Jordan and His Role in Black Panther as the #1 reason they are interested in the movie...
This is why WB's Marketing Campaign was Focused on CREED and Michael B Jordan....
You are letting your Love for Stallone Literally Make You DELUSIONAL....
Stallone was a big selling point of this movie...I'm not arguing the film wouldnt have made less without him...In fact Stallone is #2 in all the tracking and data, Seeing Stallone in The Rocky role again was #2 in all Polls and tracking for why people were interested in the film...
But If you cant not accept That Michael B Jordan and Creed is the main draw.....thats simply ON YOU....Its not something you can argue or dispute....the facts unequivocally state and BACK THAT UP
its a 100% concrete fact that The MAJORITY....of tickets sold and People that saw Creed II....Saw the film and bought tickets for Michael B Jordan and Creed ....Period....
It wasn't addressed because it's obvious how asinine that assertion is.
^^^
it wasnt addressed because you have no way to disprove it....
YOU WANT Stallone to be the BIGGEST reason why Creed II succeeds....But unfortunately all data Proves he's The 2nd Biggest reason why Creed II is succeeding....
at this point, you have one option...You cant argue you the facts....your just going to have to do the BUTTHURT response and claim "You dont care" what the facts say....
When you reach the point you are at now...You either got to Accept "Hey I am only interested in seeing this film for Stallone, But Its clear Most other are interested in seeing it for another reason"
Or you just GOT say FUCK IT and SPITE TROLL.....just say who cares what the facts,polls and tracking says....I'm right ...they are all Wrong....
unfortunately either way YOU LOSE....but I'm sure for you SPITE TROLLING would probably make this defeat a little easier for u
almost everyone uses a credit or debut card to buy these tickets....This 100% allows Fandango to track the Identity and Race of The ticket Purchaser....It does?
Oh Dear God....
you keep digging your Grave Deeper....
Its not Just Fandago....
WB has their ENTIRE Marketing department going through Twitter, Facebook, all online Activity to Gauge where Interest lies MOST in Creed II....that Data All Unequivocally Points to Michael B Jordan and Creed...
Cinemascore is A company that Poll's audiences member immediately after seeing the film and coming of the theater...They literally send Employees out all over the country on Opening Weekend, This is how they come up with The Cinemascore for a film....they Poll Audience members and ask them list of Questions....Cinemascore is reporting African American are the Leading Audience for the film and Michael B Jordan is the biggest reason they were interested in the film...
Hollywood Reporter and Deadline Both report Creed II has Nearly triple The African American audience than any of the previous Rocky Films , where BOTH of their box office analyst's go on to state "Its Clear Michael B Jordan is bringing in A New crowd off the heals of Black Panther"
Creed II had Its Stronger Numbers In City like Atlanta where the population is Heavily African Americans, It even broke a record in 2 of the theatrical chains there...
as for you Fandago BULLSHIT....
Fandango usually accounts for 50% or higher of ticket sales for a films opening weekend....
that means they had a MASSIVE Polling pool....
also Fandango is not the ONLY Ticket site, There are A lot of them...
Movie Pass
Movietickets.com
and Regal Cinemas
all reported The Majority of tickets sold were to African Americans who List Michael B Jordan as the #1 interest in the film
I'm sorry again....at this point, you have No Other option but to simply IGNORE the facts because you cant dispute them....
All Data from OVER a half of Dozen sources indisputably prove Michael B Jordan is the #1 selling point of the movie...
Those same sources ALSO reveal Stallone is #2 and Is a very big selling point as well....
again you are just going to have to Accept it....Or say Fuck IT and SPITE TROLL and Just IGNORE the facts
again either way you lose....
Fandango usually accounts for 50% or higher of ticket sales for a films opening weekend....So 10-15% of the 50% who bought tickets on Fandango. Got it.
"Inflation doesnt cover that...New Stallone fans dont cover that(lol There are no new Stallone fans, His films are making Less and Less at the box office)"
Aaannnddd from this statement I knew you were an arrogant and stubborn asshole. I'm a "new" Stallone fan (meaning that I am too young and didn't have the chance to follow him in his prime).
And well even if his movies make less and less, it doesn't change the fact that he is still able to come out with a hit here and there.
"If People were only going to see Creed because of Rocky, Creed would have made no more than 70 Million...."
Even though I understand most of your points and tend to agree, this is not really an accurate way to jidge it. It actually is all a matter of circumstances. An actor can make a box-office hit and then make a huge flop. Just like any franchises can have massive box-office numbers and then, randomly, have a flop which doesn't always affect the upcoming movies' success.
It is not precise mathematics. This is an estimation. Just because Rocky Balboa made 70 millions doesn't automatically mean that this is the highest profit that depends on Stallone.
Don't forget that Expendables 1 and 2 were hits. So, he can still make some good money for the studios.
Nevertheless, I'm not among those thinking that without Sly this movie would flop. But I certainly say that the probability is higher.
Agree
shareI'd watch.
I like Coogler & I like Jordan & Tessa Thompson together.
If Coogler came back to it, it would be interesting. But it would be odd having Stallone going from being so involved to nothing. I'm not just talking as Rocky, but also behind the scenes.
It's going to feel like it doesn't belong.
I think people would go to the theater anyhow out of morbid curiosity to see what a Rocky-less film would be like. The writers could simply say he's visiting his son to explain the absence of Stallone's character.
I wouldn't put it past the studios involved to at least attempt making Creed into a trilogy.
Some people might. But it would really need to pull some magic to make it just as successful as the first two movies.
share"I think the reason why Creed succeeded so much was because It was NOT A Rocky film....
It was written by Cogler and He focused the story on Creed"
On one hand, you are right. People got pretty much enough of seeing Rocky movies focused on his character. Rocky Balboa ended the franchise just in the right way and we didn't need/ask for more.
But on another hand... people were still attracted to the movie because they knew that the Rocky character will be in it. There was also a huge Oscar-buzz around Stallone winning the best supporting actor Academy award. This certainly made some great hype for the movie.
In other news, the sun rose in the east today.
Like if anyone cares about Adonis' character anyways. I must give it to Michael B. Jordan, he makes a good effort and well the first movie (first Creed movie) was quite good. But yes, of course we all watch it to see Rocky and without him I don't think many people would care about this franchise.
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