MovieChat Forums > Joker (2019) Discussion > Disliking a character so much that . . ....

Disliking a character so much that . . .


My wife told me that when she was a teenager, Robert Blake repelled and disgusted her so much in "In Cold Blood," that she could not tolerate him in anything, ever again. Every time a show would come on with Blake in it, she without exception changed the channels. All these years I thought how silly that was (I am smart enough not to tell that to her), until I saw this movie. Now I get her point.

(Though it doesn't help that Phoenix repeatedly shows what a nutbag he is in real life. Which is why these overpaid, under-educated, pompous "stars" should do what their predecessors did - keep their private lives private.)

reply

Frankly that says more about you and your wife and your inability to accept that actors play a role. That's their job.

Why would you not watch that actor in another role? You are supposed to be repulsed by Robert Blake in that movie. But to project those feelings onto other characters he plays? That's just messed up.

Same with Phoenix in Joker. He is at turns messed up, creepy, bizarre and funny.

God knows what you make of Joe Pesci's character in Goodfellas...

reply

I thought Pesci was funny in Goodfellas. He's a funny guy.

reply

What, you think he's funny? Like a clown? He amuses you?

reply

Just, y'know...he's funny.

reply

A 'Tommy Devito' like Joker would have been amusing.

reply

I was going to say, "Imagine a Tommy Devito Penguin," but we kinda got that with Batman Returns (I'm thinking about the "Could be worse! My nose could be gushing blood!" scene) Yeah, just this odd little man who people don't take seriously and who kinda goes along with it right up until he commits to executing total, sociopathic mayhem on everybody.

reply

Who is Tommy Devito?

reply

Actually, I have loved Pesci in everything he's done, including Goodfellas. But thanks for your advice on how me and my wife should think. It will influence us immensely, I'm sure.

reply

Frankly that says more about you and your wife and your inability to accept that actors play a role. That's their job.

Yeah... I really don't seen how exactly is this an issue? I could understand when a celebrity does something despicable in his personal look (I can overlook and separate the artist from the art, but I respect other people's values)... but because of something scripted?

reply

It's not messed up, it is how the human brain works ... maybe yours needs some fixing

reply

I assume at some level the actor must be able to get into the head of the character in order to play them so I can see that it would be disconcerting when an actor is able to convincingly play an evil person.

reply

Yes, it's their jobs. I can separate the person from the character.

Besides Phoenix, Robert DeNiro's role as a popular talk show host Murray Franklin somehow made you dislike him. The scenes were "live" tv:

Arthur as member of audience:
Arthur Fleck : I've been the man of the house for as long as I can remember. I take good care of my mother.
Murray Franklin : All that sacrifice, she must love you very much.
Arthur Fleck : She does. She always tells me to smile and put on a happy face. She says I was put here to spread joy and laughter.

Murray Franklin : [from trailer] All that sacrifice, she must love you very much.

Interview as Joker
Murray Franklin : And finally, in a world where everyone thinks they could do my job, we got this video tape from Pogo's Comedy Club right here in Gotham. Here's a guy who thinks if you just keep laughing, it'll somehow make you funny. Check out this joker. ''

Arthur Fleck : Knock knock.
Murray Franklin : Who's there?
Arthur Fleck : It's the police, ma'am! Your son's been hit by a drunk driver. He's dead!

Murray Franklin : I'm waiting for the punchline.
Arthur Fleck : There is no punchline.

Murray Franklin : Well, let me get this straight, you think that killing those guys is funny?
Arthur Fleck : I do. And I'm tired of pretending it's not.

Murray Franklin : Do I understand that you did this to start a movement? To become a symbol?
Arthur Fleck : Oh come on, Murray. Do I look like the kind of clown that could start a movement? I killed those guys because they were awful. Everybody is awful these days. It's enough to make everyone crazy.
Murray Franklin : Okay, so that's it? You're crazy, that's your defence for killing three young men?
Arthur Fleck : No. They couldn't carry a tune to save their lives.

Arthur Fleck : You're awful, Murray.
Murray Franklin : Me? I'm awful? How am I awful?
Arthur Fleck : Playing my video. Inviting me on the show. You just wanted to make fun of me. You're just like the rest of them!

...

reply

Murray is angry at Arthur's confession, but his comments are being aired to the tv audience. Murray continues to get more angry (despite the producer wanting to cut the interview short) and the studio audience is right along with him. They start to boo Arthur and want him off.

It's during this scene that we see how Arthur captures one segment while Murray captures the studio audience. It's a strange, uncomfortable interviews, but the lines are drawn and then the shocker that sets everything and everyone off.

reply

I FEEL THE SAME WAY EVER SINCE I SAW ONE NIGHT IN PARIS.🙂

reply

Robert Blake was in that...? I musta missed him...

reply

I love sniffing out the bullshitters.

reply

That happened to me with Harvey Keitel after I saw him in Taxi Driver. I DESPISED him for years. I would watch the movies, but I just hated his characters so much even if they were supposed to be good guys because of his portrayal of Sport the pimp in Taxi Driver. When I saw Reservoir Dogs, though, I actually liked him. That movie broke my 10+ year streak of hating Harvey Keitel.

reply

Ramsey Bolton anyone?

Uh ... forget his name, but the guy who play Mike Ehrmantrout on Breaking Bad, the first thing I saw him in was Beverly Hills Cop where he played a cold blooded murdered and I disliked him all that time ... oh, Jonathan Banks was his name.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmCuEt1M1c0

reply

He was terrific as Mike Ehrmantrout. I didn't remember that he was in Beverly Hills Cop but he must have been much younger then.

reply

Ha! Jonathon Banks. This was the same for me. He made a career playing sleazy lowlifes and scumbags early in his career to the point where I was sort of turned off whenever I saw him.

Breaking Bad though completely changed my attitude.

Michael Shannon is another actor that had the same effect. With his dead eyes and the fact he often played scumbags I was sort of repelled by him whenever I saw him. Then I watched him one night in a late night interview and he was hilarious... but he has this dead pan delivery that just underscores the hilarity of what he said.

Since then I've warmed up to him.

reply

just watch blake in of mice and men.

reply

I guess it's really good acting if the actor is so convincing that you can't separate him from the role, but it seems a pity to be unable to enjoy his performance in other movies.

reply

Oh, don't worry, I'll get over it. I thoroughly enjoyed Phoenix in other films, including Signs, Walk the Line, We Own the Night, and Gladiators, so I will be back. My wife even took a decade or two to get over Blake, and then liked (or at least watched) him in that show where he was a detective with some kind of bird.

reply

I don't think I saw "In Cold Blood" the movie, but I read the book, and the character was blood-curdling there too, so I can see why someone might find that a bit much to get over.

reply

You should watch Clay Pigeons.

reply

It took me a while for Kurtwood Smith. He was so brutal in Robocop that I had a hard time seeing him in lighter roles.

I knew a big time John Wayne fan who absolutely hated Bruce Dern because he killed him in a movie.

I can't see Dylan Baker in anything anymore without seeing him as a pedophile.

reply