The action scenes and the sets look cool. Winstead looks badass as Huntress. And they are actually giving Quinn a pet hyena. But it's giving too much of a Deadpool vibe instead of being its own thing. And does Black Mask actually...wear a mask?
shareThe trailer to me looks worse than the whole of Suicide Squad which turned out mediocre at best and I actually enjoyed the trailers for. A real shame since I like Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn.
shareI loved the trailers for SS and still liked it fine. This, I'd have to wait and see.
shareI really enjoyed Suicide Squad at first viewing, but the more I thought about it, the more issues I had with the movie.
I watched it again because I really wanted to like it, but a second viewing didn't help.
Another DC dud
share"Another"?
When was DC's last flop or dud?
Do you think Joker is going to flop as well?
Apparently you didn't see Shazam. Lol
shareIt's breakeven point was 180 million and it made 360 million.
That's a success.
Nope , Shazam made very little profit, factor in all the marketing costs, a share of the tickets sales to the cinema chains , shit , it probably lost money , likewise with JL , MOS and BVS considering they have some of the biggest CB characters in the universe were also rather underwhelming BO takings , only WW and Aquaman can hold there head up high.
shareIf a movie makes more than three times its production budget, with a fair amount of that money coming from the domestic market, it’s fair to assume that it probably didn’t lose money.
shareNope. Right now and as a rule of thumb, marketing budget equals movie budget. Domestic, you need at least 4 times the movie budget to break even. If most money is made in markets like China, make it 5 times.
That's why $1 billion is not a big number anymore. For world-wide movies, that's the break even for $200 million movie budgets.
What? Movies need to make four times the budget domestically to break even? By that logic, Shazam! would’ve needed to make over $400 million in North America to break even, and Avengers: Endgame was a box office disappointment.
shareShazam did WW less than 4 times his budget. It depends on how much they spent in marketing, but chances are it lost money.
Endgame made 8 times its budget. It was a huge success.
A movie doesn’t need to make four times its production budget to make money. Besides, the movie’s budget is said to have ranged from $90-100 million, so I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a money loser.
shareAs a rule of thumb, a movie gets 50% of box office, less in non-western markets (China is about 25%). And as a rule of thumb, movies spend as much money in marketing (worldwide) as the budget itself.
Basic maths, and as rule of thumb, you need 4 times the budget to break even.
Shazam! definitely did not spend $100 million in marketing. Also, studios gain a greater percentage of a movie’s domestic gross than they do its international gross. There are also factors like product placement helps pay for movies. There is absolutely no proof to the idea that a movie needs to make four times its budget to break even. If that were the case, that would’ve meant that movies like Spider-Man 3 and Iron Man 2 lost money.
shareThis guys talking out his backside. Three times a movie's production budget will get you a profit.
shareYou don't know math do you? JL surely lost money but MOS and BVS broke even.
shareBVS and MOS didnt have massive reshoots , JL did.
shareYes JL is confirmed to have Lost at least 60 Million for WB
MOS, was a Massive Disappointment, that KILLED an already announced and greenlit "MOS2" sequel because WB spent over 300 Million Making MOS(counting advertising) and Netted ONLY a tiny 42 Million in Profit.
to understand how disappointing 42 Million in Profit is on an investment as big as MOS...movies like Ant-Man 1(a first time debuting character that had never had a motion picture before and was a C list character at best Netted Disney over 103 Million in Profit) or for example on the high end, Disney Netted 480 Million + in Profit on Black Panther....Bottom Line, WB spent over a quarter of a billion dollars on MOS featuring The Ultimate A list superhero and It ONLY Netted them a tiny profit, while not a flop, Its was a complete disappointment that turned out to be a awful investment Which in return was basically "Given Up" on resulting In An already announced MOS2 sequel being scrapped.
as for BvS, This film actually made a 102 Million Profit, but considering WB spend over 400 Million making it, and considering there was NOT a box office analyst alive that didnt think 1 Billion + was an absolute minimum for this film, considering The last 2 Batman films With ONLY Batman had topped the 1 B+ mark,BO wise BvS can only be considered A Massive disappointment, but Overall BvS has to be considered the biggest creative failure and missed opportunity in Hollywood history considering The damage it did to the Franchise, Upcoming Movies and ICONIC DC's characters, remember Batman was a proven Billion dollar + character and property before Snyder got a hold of him, The damage done there is almost unprecedented, were talking in the span of only 3 years and 1 film, The character Batman Lost nearly 40% of its drawing power and audience, Not only was BvS a truly awful film that was universally hated by Critic and audiences,, It Literally Killed a franchise, doomed future films and crippled Ironic DC characters....
BvS was Zack Snyder’s idea from the start. This idea that BvS was made because WB was disappointed in MoS doesn’t even make sense. If that were the case, why would WB give Zack Snyder the keys to the entire DC library? Does WB not like making money or something?
shareBvS was Zack Snyder’s idea from the start. This idea that BvS was made because WB was disappointed in MoS doesn’t even make sense. If that were the case, why would WB give Zack Snyder the keys to the entire DC library? Does WB not like making money or something?
^^^
not trying to be mean, but please do a little research before saying stuff like this
The things i said in my post werent just opinions, but everything i said has been conformed. if you do a little research you would have seen that
There are articles online in 2010 When Snyder gave interviews talking about how MOS and Its sequels Will have NOTHING to do with a shared universe, where Snyder specifically says "MOS and Cavils Superman will be set in its own universe like Nolans Batman films, If a Justice League movie ever happens, It Will be its another universe, and have a completely different Superman and actor playing him"
If you do a little research in to MOS and its production, You will find it was supposed to be an exact copy of Nolans Batman Films.
there was NEVER any intentions of it taking place in a shared universe(that only came after The Avengers Struck GOLD in 2012 and MOS badly under performed in 2013)
again there are conformed reports of exactly how MOS came to be....
While On the set of The Dark Knight Rises, Writer David Goyler came up with an idea on a Superman Origin Story, He and Nolan talked about it and came up with the idea, They took it to Wb and Wb greenlit it as long as NOLAN was involved and was producing...
they wanted Ben Affleck as director, but Affleck wasnt comfortable with the amount of CGI that was going to be used/needed and passed, They then hired Snyder.
from what I've read, Snyder got to make the film he wanted and Nolan even really campaigned to give Snyder freedom especially with "Superman Killing Zod" as WB did not like it...
now to understand How MOS went from a "Planned Trilogy" in the exact model of Nolan's Batman films to scrapping that and Snyder starting a cinematic universe.....
The answer lies in WHEN MOS was made...
MOS was shot in 2010 with a Christmas 2012 release date(which was later pushed back 6 months to 2013)
The Key here is The timing...at this exact point, WB had absolutely no interest in a Cinematic Universe and to be honest they had GOOD reason, at that Point, only 3 MCU films has been released, 1 in The Incredible Hulk under performed and Even Marvel Studios HUGE Hit in Iron Man was easily surpassed by The Dark Knight in the very same year...
simply put, WB had no reason to want a Cinematic Universe, Marvel Studios wasnt having great Success and WB was having literally The Greatest Success EVER with Nolans Batman films
So When WB greenlit MOS, They not only didnt want a cinematic Universe, They were AGAINST IT(again you can look up articles in 2009 and 2010 of WB speaking out against having a cinematic Universe)
The facts are, they Greenlit MOS on The condition NOLAN was producing, They hired Snyder, and Snyder gave multiple interviews saying MOS was going to be a Trilogy set in its Own Universe like Nolan's Batman films
and again from what I've read, WB was actually Happy with MOS...they had multiple early screening where Execs came away happy and thought the film was a Great, this is How MOS 2 got greenlit before MOS even opened....WB was so happy with MOS after watching one early screening they Greenlit MOS 2, scheduled a release date and started Goyer writing the sequel
Now to how and where it all turned...
The first turning point was May 4th 2012....The Avengers come out to 207 Million dollar record breaking Opening Weekend and literally changes Hollywood...
at this point for the first time WB realized a cinematic Universe was the future, before this, Marvel Studios had modest success but This was undeniable proof, A cinematic universe was the future
But WB still Had The Dark Knight Rises coming out the same summer and from what i've read expected TDKR to top The Avengers....
Then comes 2013..
WBs got MOS coming out. but first come Iron Man 3 in May.
WB watches Iron Man 3 have a stunning jump in Box office and top 1.2 Billion, again further cementing to WB A cinematic Universe was the future...
But then a month later comes MOS....Which to Wbs shock gets Mixed to bad reviews(again WB truly thought they had the "Goods" with MOS and was completely shocked by its reception) MOS then badly under performs...
So, in back to back years, WB has its 2 most ICONIC characters films in TDKR and MOS which were made in Their "Own Universes" exactly the way WB wanted and thought would be more successful than a shared universe, BADLY lose to Marvel Studios shared universe films...
So, WB now has a choice to make, Nolan has completed his Batman Trilogy and is done....MOS just badly under performed and literally didnt make Half of what IM3 made and was extremely decisive....
does WB go forward with The planned, announced and already greenlit MOS 2?
you can look this part up, there are articles detailing WBs decisions....WB did not feel confident a MOS sequel perform any better than MOS 1, WB felt MOSs reception and WOM was so decisive, MOS 2 would drop it box office instead of even matching MOS1...
WB was now in a situation where Batman was in Limbo....and Superman couldnt go forward as planned
WB now 100% wanted a cinematic Universe due to Marvel Studios Unprecedented Success in back to back years
again from what I've read. since WB was happy with MOS and actual thought it was good, they still had convinced in Snyder at this time(WB actually believed the DC fans narrative that MOS was "unfairly judged")
they met with Snyder to talk about MOS2 being scrapped and wanting to have a cinematic universe...
This resulted in The Biggest MISTAKE in Hollywood history....
Because Wb never wanted or never had any intentions of having a cinematic universe....
WB had no idea what to do or had any vision for a cinematic universe....this unfortunately lead WB to turn to a Man in Snyder who had the worst Possible Vision for a cinematic Universe but at lease a vision none the less...
Snyder then pitched bringing in Batman and creating a cinematic Universe with just 1 film in BvS
Snyder had complete control during this time, WB just wrote the checks and was happy to be in the cinematic universe business...
the rest is history, But for me the funny part is and this shows just how out of touch WB was.....once again , WB was happy with BvS...during early screening for BvS, WB and Major execs were thrilled and again thought they "had the good"....once again WB was FLOORED by BvSs awful reception, WB actual thought people were going to like the film.
this of course lead to WB badly interfering in damn near all of the DCEUs films post production trying to Lighten and change the "dark" tones after BvS
bottom line.
BvS was not Snyders idea from the start.
Snyder is on record that he wanted and was going to make a MOS trilogy set in its own universe like Nolan's Batman.
Its not an "Idea" that BvS was only made after MOS was a disappointment...Its a confirmed fact!
The reason Snyder got Full control of DCs library is because WB wanted a cinematic Universe after the success of The Avengers and IM3 and WB turned to Snyder after he pitched an idea to create a Cinematic Universe with just 1 film in BvS
you can literally look all these facts up and find articles confirming them
Had MOS made 1 Billion +....MOS 2 would have gone forward....Period!
Avengers box office success is what obviously made WB scramble around to create a cinematic universe. Thing is they went into full on panic mode. The execs thought okay better get this out fast before the superhero fad dies off. No one predicted the fad would last this long. The reason they wanted Nolan's name on Man of Steel is because it would fill the theater as TDK trilogy was a huge success at the time.
See when you are trying to emulate the wrong things it showcases it in the art. Man of Steel and the whole DCU feels like soulless copies of something better than itself. Whether it be Nolan's Batman films or the MCU in general. First they tried to emulate Nolan that failed then went into full on over correction panic mode with Justice League. They did re-shoots and attempted to make it lighthearted with more jokes like an MCU film.
What is so stupid about the WB executives is they walked away from Man of Steel and BVS going yeah the reason it is so negatively received is because it is dark. No it is because your movies are trash it has nothing to do with the tone. Logan was dark look how that went, Nolan's Batman movies were dark all were well received. I find it hilarious because look at BVS and Civil War. They are actually both basically the same movie/ general idea. The difference is one is trash and the other is good. Tone has nothing to do with it. It is execution. When Man of Steel did not smash the box office they pivoted to their poster boy and that is Batman.
It was far too early to bring Batman back to the screen in general but to top it off they made the worst blockbuster of the decade and one of the the worst blockbusters in cinema history. TDK and TDKR each grossed over a billion, so Batman was a guaranteed slam dunk after Nolan made him a household name again. Then you have Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in the same film twice and fail to even get close to that number. Yikes talk about a failure. Now you have to repair Batman's tarnished image again! We just did that after Batman & Robin goodness gracious.
Well it does look like the Batman is shaping up to be good. The team behind the film is good and the casting looks great. I love Matt Reeves as a director a far better film maker than Zack Snyder. I never loved any of Snyder's work where as I adore a lot of Matt Reeves films especially his work on the ape films.
Zack Snyder has adamantly insisted that it was his idea to include Batman in the sequel to MoS. There were storyboards for BvS before MoS was even released. He has stated that it wasn’t his intention from the moment he was hired, so me saying that he planned it “from the start” was a poor choice of words. Still, he has said that when it came time to come up with ideas for future movies, he suggested they include Batman, since SNYDER was a big fan of ‘The Dark Knight Returns’. WB didn’t force that on him. There is zero proof of that.
By all accounts, BvS was Zack Snyder’s baby through and through. He has said as far back as 2008 that directing an adaptation of TDKR was a dream of his. The only bit of studio interference that we know of is that WB insisted 30 minutes be cut from the film in order to allow for more showtimes.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jayoliva1/status/987930376965210113
Perhaps "flop" is not the correct word. Rather, "Another bad DC movie" seems likely. Only WW and Shazam have been good (and WW only partly) so it is a decent bet that this will also be bad. The trailer doesn't look good. Suicide Squad was wretched but Margot was the good part so this has that going for it.
I would much rather that they had made a Harley movie separate from Birds of Prey. A BoP movie THAT FOLLOWED THE COMIC BOOK would be excellent. But nope, once again they treat the Birds with half an ass.
"Another"?
When was DC's last flop or dud?
^^^^
2 of the last 3 have Been flops/Disappointments
Justice League Lost WB at Least 60 Million
Shazam by your OWN Standards Netted WB NO Profit, and By Hollywood standards Made No Profit, and KILLED a supposed already greenlit sequel that now isnt happening...
Then if we really wanted to go even further
Man Of Steel was pretty much a disaster that Netted WB pathetic 42 Million In Profit, which once again resulted in The already announced and Greenlit MOS2 being scrapped and WB bringing in Batman to try to save the box office for the next film
I mean even BY YOUR OWN standards Queen, MOS can only be called a Disappointment/ dud and If you were being honest really a flop, I can not imagine any scenario where Disney Spent over 225 M+ making a film and another 100 M+ in advertisement and Then that film ONLY nets Disney 42 Million in Profit, where you wouldnt called it A FAILURE, I mean just recently, You claimed Toy Story 4 couldnt be called a hit if It didnt Net Disney over 200 M in Profit.
Now lets go to BvS, quite simply put, This movie is the biggest Creative Failure and Missed opportunity in Hollywood history, A film That Killed a Franchise, as a direct result of this film Zack Snyder was immediately stripped on all his power, WB wanted to fire him before starting production on JL but couldnt because after doing the Math they realized they would lose over 100 M+ replacing him and delaying JL, WB Went through 3 different "Bosses" hiring and firing them, and what truly makes BvS the disaster of all disasters is Not ONLY was the movie itself awful and a failure, NOT ONLY did it KILL a cinematic Universe, But It directly resulted in Another Movie in Suicide Squad Being Awful and Not leaving up to box office expectations, after WB went into Panic mode after BvS's awful reception and Wildly interfered in SS's post production where They hired a different production company to come in a make a new cut of the film(which was already completed) in an attempt to "lighten the tone" and add HUMOR...
this of course resulted in the film being Edited to hell and being terrible, which Then resulted in awful reviews and Universal Hatred which effected box office...
Now I'm not even sure your delusional enough to try and spin BvS into anything but a compete failure and disaster, but I'm sure you might want to point out it did Make a Profit of 102 M....
and I'd like to go ahead point out to you ..Unfortunately again based on YOUR OWN standards, that can be considered NOTHING but a failure...
remember you are the person who trolled on Ant-Man 2 and claimed its box office and profit was disappointing....
so theres just no way around it,
AM2 cost 162 Million to make and Netted Disney over 120 M+ in profit
If you consider that disappointing, Then WB spending over 400 Million on BvS and only netted 102 Million has to be a complete failure to you....
Next, we go to your thoughts on Star Wars The Last Jedi....Despite that film Making over 1.3 B and Netting Disney over 400 Million In Profit, You relentlessly claimed in was a disaster because of the backlash....
so once again, No Film in history had worse Backlash and did more damage to a franchise and ICONIC characters than BvS..
So If you consider The Last Jedi to be a disaster despite netting Disney over 400 Milion in Profit because of "Backlash"
then You have to consider BvS to be the ULTIMATE disaster for Only netting 103 M in profit due to the worst "Backlash" of all time....
Obviously I went on a rant here, but you asked the question "When was DC's last flop or dud?"
I found that an odd Question considering its very clear that 2 of the last 3 DC films were flops./duds
I then found it an even odder question considering, If we think about your history and specifically "Your standards", The scales you have set when judging films successes or failure, It became very clear to me, that based on your Own "standards" you set, BOTH Man of Steel and BvS had to AT LEAST for YOU being considered colossal failures!
So the answer to your question of "When was DC's last flop or dud?"
Is actually "March"....When Shazam got "sandwiched and forgotten" between 2 Disney MCU films that BOTH topped 1 Billion + In Captain Marvel which went on to be the highest grossing female superhero movie of all time(including domestically-WINK**WINK) and Then Disney's Avengers Endgame Which went on to give Disney the HONOR of now having the highest grossing film ever made.........lol
for an illustration-
it went some like-
February- Captain Marvel-1.128 Billion--Lol remember When you claimed "This isnt no Wonder Woman)..lol
March- Shazam-364 M-NO Profit and completely forgotten
April-Avengers Endgame-2.790 B+--358 M+ OW--remember when you said "300 Million was dead" on opening night? lol
in conclusion, I think your question should have been "which DC films weren't flops or duds?" instead of "When was DC's last flop or dud?"
according to your standards, 4 of the 7 DC films are flops and duds....
Its also worth noting, even The 3 DC films that are hits(Suicide Squad,WW, Aquaman) never even remotely hit the heights of Disney's MCUs films....
for example, You can take the profit WB has made from all 7 DCEU films combined and Disney has made more profit with just 1 MCU film....
It seems WB is either LOSING Money of DC flops like Justice League and Shazam or stuck ONLY making Modest profit when their DC films actually hit.....
for another example, Will WB ever make HUGE profit like Disney?
Disney Netted over
700 M+ on EG
500 M+ on IW
480 M+ on BP
400 M+ on The Avengers 1
390M+ On IM3
390 M+ on AOU
350 M+ on Captain Marvel
hey Maybe that should be your next question "Will a DC film ever reach the heights of Disney's MCU films"
Hot garbage for me. But I think the ladies are probably really gonna enjoy this.
shareOne for the ladies
shareProbably comes with a few quips about the patriarchy given that 'chick' comment at the end. Something for the Tumblr/Twitter crowd.
shareTrailer looks as good as Gemini Man's. Which is pretty bad.
shareWinstead looks miscast as huntresss
This is Helena
https://www.google.com/search?q=dc+huntress&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=ACYBGNR1aVyQ8s2VVGtB_s1QSUau-_4fWA:1570908838753&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVuru6u5flAhVCPq0KHXLvCVQQ_AUIESgB
Not the garbage woman we saw in the trailers