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Is episode 5 the first important plot reveal for Season 2?

posted 2 years ago by keithmovies (627)
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I think it might be.

Going on we know Q accuses Picard of malfeasance and responsibility for the authoritarian Earth timeline. Up till now we've known little of why it might be so. Now we see that a Picard family member from the past may be critical for Earth's future. So a sort of axis is formed between Jean-Luc and his ancestor Renee about which Earth history revolves - their actions are key to the nature of the future. We also see that Q is desperate to stop Picard's success for some reason.

Entering the mix is the Borg Queen, stealthily embedded in the form of a nano-consciousness in Jarcati's brain and mind just before the former's death. Wherever Jacarti goes she goes, and sees whatever she sees/hears/thinks. What are the consequences of this? How will it impact Picard's plan to keep Renee on course to remain on the space mission?

I wonder if Q is trying to prevent the Borg from interfering in Earth's history - his strategy being to ensure humanity is so xenophobic it will destroy the Borg upon contact by all means possible, waging an aggressive campaign to eliminate a threat and not merely defend against it as the Federation of the normal timeline had done. A confrontation with the Borg Queen via Jacarti at the party in 2024 sets the space for marital law and a global dictatorship, and a campaign to defend the earth from alien threats real or imagined. Dr Soong contributes by helping to seed the Borg threat via genetic disruption of the guests at the party, creating an incident that panic that blames the Borg.

[–] joi2049 (5495) 2 years ago

Europa is named for a woman who, in Greek mythology, was abducted by the god Zeus – Jupiter in Roman mythology.

In Depth | Europa – NASA Solar System Exploration

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/moons/jupiter-moons/europa/in-depth

Like our planet, Europa is thought to have an iron core, a rocky mantle, and an ocean of salty water. Unlike Earth, however, Europa’s ocean lies below a shell of ice probably 10 to 15 miles (15 to 25 kilometers) thick, and has an estimated depth of 40 to 100 miles (60 to 150 kilometers)

Since Q was pretending to be Rene's shrink (who was also trying to talk her out of going to EUROPA), perhaps that's because the BORG or another life form are already there and might ASSIMILATE her or something once she arrives there?

It's also interesting that Rene suffers from depression, even though she's had such an outstanding and extraordinary life (at least from the point of view of others who learn about all of her many accomplishments).

So my guess would be something's going to happen to RENE ... if and whenever she makes it there to JUPITER'S MOON.

Maybe those creatures we saw (who were about to enter and come to the rescue of the SYNTHS when DATA's daughter activated that device) inhabit EUROPA??

[–] asom (6586) 2 years ago

That event would have happened in the original timeline in which Rene had already been to Europa and ... nothing happened ...

[–] joi2049 (5495) 2 years ago

But in the original TIMELINE they have the FEDERATION, whereas in this TIMELINE or ALTERNATE REALITY (or whatever it is) they have what's called "THE CONFEDERATION" (which is a much more EVIL version of the FEDERATION ... sort of like MIRROR WORLD in DISCOVERY was also a much more EVIL VERSION of the other WORLD in that story).

And in this ALTERNATIVE EVIL MIRROR WORLD the EVIL version of PICARD has also KILLED OFF the KLINGONS, and several other SPECIES (including the BORG) (which is why we saw the collection of HEADS he's killed on display as trophies).

And that's also the reason why they were celebrating the day that they planned to EXECUTE the BORG QUEEN (thus also killing off the last member of that SPECIES).

And the KLINGONS also had that MONESTARY where they grew those TIME CRYSTALS, where we also saw one MONK instantly growing a tree from a sapling into a much larger TREE.

So we also know they have or they once had the ability to TIME TRAVEL (like MICHAEL's Mom was doing in the ANGEL SUIT when she was attacked by the KLINGONS on VULCAN).

In other words, we also know the original TIMELINE can be MANIPULATED (like when Michael's Mom created the town called EDEN).

[–] asom (6586) 2 years ago

Damn, WHAT show are you watching???

The split of the timeline is NOW. And there are 2 options for the split:
1. Renee goes to Europa and preserves the timeline (and that means that THERE IS NOTHING THAT WASN'T SUPPOSED to be there
2. Rene doesn't go to Europa.

For something to be on Europa it would mean that the timeline was disturbed a lot more in advance in another place/civilization.

You like to bring up crazy theories but without a bit of logic and regard to what is actually happening in the show ... just pure imagination unrelated to the the actual events ...

[–] joi2049 (5495) 2 years ago

The TIME LINE can be DISRUPTED by the BORG QUEEN being in CONTROL of AGNES.

And what about LARIS being a "WATCHER" who has the JOB of trying to PROTECT RENE as a way to try to PRESERVE the TIMELINE???

Remember the other character from TOS (Gary Seven) who also had the same kind of a job?

https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-picard-watcher-gary-seven/

Star Trek: Picard Season 2 has prominently revived a forgotten piece of Star Trek: The Original Series lore through its introduction of the Watcher.

With Star Trek: Picard Season 2 leaving Jean-Luc Picard and his crew scrambling to restore the timeline after it was tampered with by the omnipotent Q, La Sirena traveled back to Los Angeles 2024. Learning that a mysterious figure known as the Watcher was their best hope for preserving human history, Picard sought them out, with the Guinan of this time period facilitating their meeting. And upon introducing himself to the Watcher, Picard learns they hold a similar role to forgotten Star Trek: The Original Series character Gary Seven, continuing the show's trend of being inspired by -- and celebrating -- Star Trek history.

Meeting with the Watcher after they guide Picard to a portal through the use of a series of temporary host bodies, Picard is surprised when the enigmatic figure takes on the form of Picard's Romulan friend Laris from the 25th century. The Watcher explains that they are in charge of ensuring the natural flow of Earth's history progresses as planned, with time-travelers like Picard being held under intense suspicion for intruding in on the timeline. Picard observes that this makes the Watcher hold a similar role to Gary Seven, aware of his 20th century encounter with Captain James T. Kirk and his crew on their own time-travel mission.

With Star Trek: Picard Season 2 leaving Jean-Luc Picard and his crew scrambling to restore the timeline after it was tampered with by the omnipotent Q, La Sirena traveled back to Los Angeles 2024. Learning that a mysterious figure known as the Watcher was their best hope for preserving human history

The Watcher that Picard encounters in 2024 does not dispute his comparison of them to Gary Seven, suggesting they may be carrying out the same role in safeguarding human history. This suggests that Gary Seven and his associates have left, for reasons unknown, in the 60 years since they encountered Kirk and Spock in Manhattan. This also raises the question of why the Watcher was unable to stop Q's tampering in the first place, before Picard and his friends arrived from the resulting divergent timeline.

The Watcher agrees to help Picard and his friends stop Q from altering history, though more of her capabilities and any other links to Gary Seven remain a mystery. The Watcher has identified Picard's ancestor Renee as Q's target, leaving La Sirena's crew to scramble to protect her from the omnipotent ne'er-do-well's mischief. And now with someone holding the same temporal safeguarding role as Gary Seven on their side, Picard may finally have the edge in ensuring galactic history proceeds as it's supposed to.

QUESTION from ORIGINAL POST:

Entering the mix is the Borg Queen, stealthily embedded in the form of a nano-consciousness in Jarcati's brain and mind just before the former's death. Wherever Jacarti goes she goes, and sees whatever she sees/hears/thinks. What are the consequences of this? How will it impact Picard's plan to keep Renee on course to remain on the space mission?

I wonder if Q is trying to prevent the Borg from interfering in Earth's history - his strategy being to ensure humanity is so xenophobic it will destroy the Borg upon contact by all means possible, waging an aggressive campaign to eliminate a threat and not merely defend against it as the Federation of the normal timeline had done.

THE BORG QUEEN being in CONTROL of AGNES is the KEY to what happens next. If Q wants Picard to destroy the BORG, then she'd also try to do something to try and STOP that from happening.

Right???

And don't forget about that other TIME TRAVEL PORTAL that they found in the chamber of the BORG QUEEN last season. All the QUEEN (as Agnes) needs is access to another one as a way to beat RENE to EUROPA.

[–] joi2049 (5495) 2 years ago

Here's still another link that describes what's at stake now:

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-picard-borq-queen-plan-first-contact/

The Borg Queen (via Jurati) loose in 21st century Los Angeles is a far worse crisis than what Captain Picard foiled in Star Trek: First Contact. By repeating her First Contact scheme 40 years earlier, the Borg Queen finds a human race that has no defense against her or even knows she intends to assimilate the planet. In Star Trek: First Contact, the human race was in shambles after the devastation of World War III, but in a way, [the Borg Queen attacking 2024 Los Angeles is even worse because there are millions more people alive on Earth than there are after World War III, which decimated Earth's population. Unless Picard, Seven, Raffi, and Cristobal Rios (Santiago Cabrera) can stop the Borg Queen in Star Trek: Picard season 2, the Earth will be taken over in a far worse way than if the Borg had won in Star Trek: First Contact.

So essentially, you've got Q's interference with this TIMELINE, and now you also have the BORG QUEEN's potential to interfere with it as well. And a way to do that would be for her to TIME TRAVEL and have a BORG CUBE or a BORG colony already waiting there for the CREW at EUROPA whenever RENE arrives (who would also be waiting to ASSIMILATE them and send them back to EARTH again as a way to ASSIMILATE the rest of the population without any resistance).

But then there's also LARIS the WATCHER ... (who has the JOB of trying to prevent that kind of a thing from happening).

[–] keithmovies (627) 2 years ago

It seems that Q may have engineered the conditions for the Borg plot to arise. He needed to create a scenario for Picard to address that put him and his crew in mortal danger - consider the QA and Guinan conversation scene in the interrogation room where Q needed Picard to escape from something, ie. a threat.

Now we see that the Borg have been steered away from plans of Earth conquest, so the threat has been neutralised in part. Now they must stop Noonian Singh from preventing Rene from boarding her ship and pursuing her mission. I suspect that Q will send him into the future where he will become the famous creator of android beings like Data., or alternatively Picard will persuade him to come with him to the future where he will find better opportunities to peaceably pursue his research (rather than be at odds with the world).

[–] joi2049 (5495) 2 years ago

Here's what I'm thinking:

Since CLIFF HANGERS seem to be quite popular with the NEW TREK writers, my guess would be S2 ends with something like this happening:

[the Borg Queen attacking 2024 Los Angeles is even worse because there are millions more people alive on Earth than there are after World War III, which decimated Earth's population. Unless Picard, Seven, Raffi, and Cristobal Rios (Santiago Cabrera) can stop the Borg Queen in Star Trek: Picard season 2, the Earth will be taken over in a far worse way than if the Borg had won in Star Trek: First Contact.

And the way this could happen would be for a BORG QUEEN from the FUTURE to go BACK in TIME (like ADMIRAL JANEWAY did in ENDGAME ... which was the SERIES FINALE of VOYAGER) to confront a YOUNGER version of herself (the same way as ADM. JANEWAY encounters the 25 YEAR younger version of CAPTAIN JANEWAY ... as a way to defeat the other BORG QUEEN ... so that she and her VOYAGER crew could get back home again).

In other words, a BORG QUEEN from the FUTURE will probably show up in this TIME LINE to help this other BORG QUEEN (just like we saw happening before in VOYAGER when JANEWAY helps her younger self).

And that would also be the CLIFF that we'd be left hanging from, which would also SET THINGS UP for SEASON 3 (which will also be the SERIES FINALE of PICARD).

To put it still another way, THE BORG QUEEN in VOYAGER also ASSIMILATED ADMIRAL JANEWAY, (which would probably also mean she can think the same way as JANEWAY did and use the same kind of a strategy to accomplish her goal).

🚀

[–] keithmovies (627) 2 years ago

After seeing the Season 2 finale I can say we both sort of predicted correctly what happened.

As per your comments, the Borg Queen did "face" herself between past and present selves or rather the past was prepared for what the future needed to perform in regard to the crisis of a space anomaly, the existence of which was revealed in the final episode. Agnes took over the agenda from the queen to pursue a benevolent path into the future, allowing the Borg to cooperate with Picard and the Starfleet to tackler the anomaly.

While I was wrong about what happened specifically to Dr Soong, we see he has indeed been afforded an opportunity to pursue scientific work which will impact the Earth's future albeit in a negative way via the Khan genetic superhuman project.

[–] joi2049 (5495) 2 years ago

You very kind to suggest my prediction was correct when it was way off base regarding what happened.

I still don't get how the BORG QUEEN was able to inhabit the body of AGNES. Because we don't see people having their bodies taken over by the mind of another BORG when they're assimilated (like the way a TRILL HOST BODY is taken over by the mind of a SIMBIONT ... which is pretty much what's happened to Agnes when the BORG QUEEN took over control of her).

Because what basically happens is the BODY of a victim has BORG parts placed into it, which then results in a HIVE MIND situation, where the ASSIMILATED VICTIM pretty much becomes a BORG ROBOT TOY who has no CONTROL anymore over what they do.

But that's also NOT what happened to AGNES who was still able to CONTROL the BORG QUEEN.

And that's also why saying AGNES was ASSIMILATED makes no sense to me, because when PICARD was ASSIMILATED he was no longer himself anymore the way that AGNES was still herself.

And how the hell could her human body EAT CAR BATTERIES and SURVIVE???

How do you think TNG crew is going to fit in to the story in S3? Will they arrive for the wedding of Picard to his former housekeeper?

How will they feel if they find out PICARD died and this is another different copy of him? Would the law even allow a wedding to take place in such a case? Since DEAD FOLKS aren't allowed to vote, Legally speaking one would also technically assume that a DEAD PERSON wouldn't be allowed to marry someone else who was still alive?

🧐

[–] keithmovies (627) 2 years ago

Perhaps this is a Borg strategy that is used when potential candidates are stronger/more devious than a Borg entity (the queen was in a compromised state without her Borg network and the usual assimilation facilities). I suspects the nano-probes are an important plank in restructuring biology to accept artificial components, fluids, etc. The queen controlled Agnes' and other bodies by inserting probe clusters into bodies which converted the biology and the minds of humans so that they may serve her as zombies. The queen was unable to suppress the personality of Agnes which failed to comply despite her body being taken over.

Car battery fluid was probably acceptable to Agnes' body due to changes made (probably conversions to accept metals and foreign acid chemicals) and apparently needed so that the Borg nano-probe system would be able to grow.

No, I think the Picard relationship will have developed but not that far (maybe at the end of the season is a marriage going to occur).

The definition of death might have evolved legally by the 24th century on Earth - contacts with different races and intelligences and phenomena might have philosophically and practically shifted the idea of the human being. In the specific case of Picard - his body was duplicated to the finest detail, so the machine reality of his body might be flexibly interpreted. Indeed, he seemed to accept the change in his reality so the question of consent is another factor to consider. And his consciousness seems unaltered - he is still a "legal person" in that sense I think. He did not in fact die in the required sense, that is: body death, brain death, heart stopped, the end. The technology perpetuated the human being even if the process was to create a clone to achieve that. There is no permanency in the death - the person lives on. That said, from a spiritual perspective it's not clear whether Picard's spirit departed when his natural body died. The show has no answer for that.

[–] joi2049 (5495) 2 years ago

The body of AGNES is ORGANIC. Anything ORGANIC isn't going to be able to survive once Battery ACID is inside of it. That stuff EATS your clothing or anything else that comes into contact with it.

The body of PICARD did DIE. That's why they transfered his consciousness into the GOLLUM BODY that he inhabits now (which also lacks the disease that he died from).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p0ofS1oTvo

star trek picard episode 10 picard dies

While the transfer took place Picard was also in some kind of PURGATORY place where he encounters DATA (who asked Picard to disconnect him so he could die like a human does).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oRrK822_j0

Synth Picard • Star Trek Picard

Then we also see Picard pulling out some kind of device from a machine that disconnects the consciousness of DATA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5fQb3K0ZVU

Saying Goodbye to Commander Data • Star Trek Picard

In other words, there was BODY DEATH, Brain death, and his ARTIFICIAL HEART also stops beating. But his personality was transferred into the NEW GOLLUM BODY that he has now.

Still another thing to consider is how they've had the TECHNOLOGY to do this all along (because that's also what the TRANSPORTER does is transfers your consciousness from one point to another one).

And we've also seen ACCIDENTS where 2 people become BLENDED together into ONE PERSON (such as TUVOK and NEELIX becoming TUVIK in VOYAGER).

Tuvix | Memory Alpha | Fandom

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Tuvix

" I am Lieutenant Tuvok. And I'm Neelix. " – Tuvix, 2372 (" Tuvix ") Tuvix was a hybrid being created as the result of a transporter accident on the USS Voyager, combining Lieutenant Tuvok, Neelix, their uniforms, and an orchid in 2372

Thus also proving how it's possible to transfer the consciousness of one person into another different body.

So why wouldn't the BORG QUEEN simply do this instead of using nanobots, or YANKING off the ARM of someone to replace it with the ARTIFICAL BORG ARM, and PLUCKING OUT their EYE BALL to replace it with that other MECHANICAL DEVICE???

Doesn't that also illustrate how BARBARIC the BORG ASSIMILATION process is, and show us the reason why she's already INFERIOR in comparison to what Soong has accomplished???