About Ukraine- Finally do you get it ... - Politics Discussion

[–] xanthas (3215) a year ago

Still trying hard to convince yourself, I see.

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

Still allergic to facts then are you? Did you take the 2 minutes and listen or just jump into the rebuttal?

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

Let me guess:
Democrat
Pro vaccine mandate
Russia-gater
If has Twitter, has Ukraine flag in the bio
Thinks Trump was a fascist
supported Hillary Clinton in 2016
Woke

How am I doing so far?

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[–] CarterBlunt (1031) a year ago

Democrat
wrong

Pro vaccine mandate
wrong

Russia-gater
wrong

If has Twitter, has Ukraine flag in the bio
wrong

Thinks Trump was a fascist
wrong

supported Hillary Clinton in 2016
wrong

Woke
equally as woke as Tom Macdonald, but not as intelligent

Whoops... thought you meant Jimmy Dore.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

No I meant xanthas. She sounds just like that kind of a person.

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[–] CarterBlunt (1031) a year ago

Agreed. Nothing but gaslighting going on there.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

Just in case you're interested, the Rage Against the War Machine Rally was yesterday.
There are lots of speakers there including Jimmy Dore.
Max Blumenthal uploaded a video of the event to the GrayZone YT channel.
Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/live/dsTo6hQ_Oos?feature=share&t=5410
I already timestamped the video to Jimmy Dore's speech for you, since the video is over 4 hours long.

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

Oh thanks. I've seen Twitter-snippets of it.
As I said, I am not really a fan of Dore's, but he makes a good point about something things, or tries to. He's kind of blathering loudmouth most of the time. He's right that the reason nothing changes is because the people are fractured, divided, but making friends with those on the extreme-Right I don't think is going to help anything.
I could be wrong and Dore right, but it's like trying to solve pre-war Germany's problems by including the Nazis in the solution, which is what happened in a way. The Nazis were socialists before Hitler, and eventually Hitler's version of Nazis was a fascist, authoritarian, militaristic expansionist state all about stealing, murder, plunder and justifying it. Republicans are hinting at doing a lot of the same things.
Do we want to give them a chance to be the new Nazis?

But Dore had a good way to condense the Ukrainian history unapologetically and not beat around the bush. I respect him for having the moxy to take that on head first.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

I don't think Dore wants to get together with actual Nazis, he just wants people who agree on a given issue to stand together against the corporate oligarchy, which is our real enemy. I think what he means by the right are just conservative people who may not be down with liberal values. Some of them might even be racists. But by racists I mean the kind of racists that might drop an N-bomb in the middle a conversations, or the ones who think that black people's problems are overblown or that it's a cultural thing, but they are not the kind of racists that want to exterminate people or bring back segregation or something. So definitely not like like Nazis. The kind of people who might be older and set in their ways.

As Jimmy often says when he quotes Frederick Douglass "I will unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong". I think that captures the spirit of what he's doing.

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

OK. Dore's style has not appealed to me, but it fits in this case because people need a short and sweet ... and loud and obnoxious voice to counter the nonsense we are getting from the mainstream media. It's obviously a comedy routine, and I don't really know how serious he is about any of it considering he is out there just like the oligarchy trying to expand his base and make money!

You cannot always tell who is good and who is evil, or who is going to turn on you, and in the things that matter today, that is the core of intelligence and covert ops - trust.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

Yeah, his style is not for everyone. I can definitely see how some people may not vibe with him, or even find him obnoxious.
The only thing I would say is, that whatever you think of him, in my opinion he's genuine and believes in everything he says.
I think the reason he gets so angry and worked up is because he cares deeply about these issues and it he gives no quarter to people that claim to fight for those issues but actually don't. He feels betrayed by those people. And the reason he criticizes them the most is because to him a traitor is worse than an enemy, except maybe in the case of the corporate oligarchy, in which case the enemy is worse.

Personally I think that he's the voice of the working class and he wants to bring us together so that we have the power to fight back against the corporate oligarchic elite. Also, like Chris Hedges, he wants to literally overthrow the corporate state, not through violence, but through civil disobedience.

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

It is going to take violence to overthrow this state.
And they will use overwhelming violence back against workers and every trick in the book.
Have you ever read about the exploitations that were rampant 100 years ago that people fought and died for ... unions, no child labor, safety protections, an 80 hour workweek, overtime, doubletime, etc?
I don't think hardly any Americans have any idea, and they think nothing like that can come back beause they just don't know about it.
Hedges talks good, but he always shoots himself and the Left in the foot by doing things like bringing the Palestinians and Israel into the discussion.
They have nothing to do with American political problems - all he does that for is to make sure he regulated support for the Left. I think he works with the CIA personally. All of these guys are alive because they never really get anything going. They pretend.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

I don't think it's necessarily going to take violence to overthrow the state — I believe that it can be done through general strikes and civil disobedience, if enough people get out into the streets and shut down the state — but I think you are right that there will likely be violence, even if just isolated events. As you correctly pointed out, it will likely be unleashed on striking workers (unless it's a massive strike that overwhelms the police) like it was a hundred years ago during worker strikes. The state would often send in the troops, or hire private thugs like the Pinkertons to attack the workers, and infiltrate and sabotage their unions. Some were even killed.

With respect to Chris Hedges, I vehemently disagree. I think he's by far the best journalist working today, probably one of the best of our generation. The only journalist that outmatches him — not in terms of writing or skill but in terms of exposing the truth about the US security state and the west in general — is Julian Assange. However, Hedges is right up there. He is a prolific writer and his words are powerful. He correctly assesses the problems facing our country. I've been following him for 15 years, and pretty much everything he was saying back then has been proven to be true. On the subject of Israel and Palestine, he is correct. It's a common view on the far left. Israel is an apartheid state and someone has to stand up for the palestinians. What is being done to them is unconscionable. Socialists often speak up for, and stand in solidarity with, persecuted people.

As far as Hedges working with the CIA, with all due respect, I think that's absurd. The only contact he might have had was with CIA sources who leak him information. These people are usually disillusioned with the CIA. The only other interaction he might have had with the CIA was if he wrote a story about them. It's common practice to contact the person or organization you're writing about to get their comment and give them a chance to respond.

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[–] joej2923 (2959) a year ago

Jimmy Dore is a standup comedian who is NOT qualified to conduct serious conversations on political issues. I'd only listen to Jimmy Dore if I was looking for some laughs but war is not a laughing matter.

My theory is that Russia is relying on standup comedians to spread propaganda on social media. The Russia Today tv network had a relationship with comedians Lee Camp and Dennis Miller before the invasion. Dennis Miller left RT shortly after the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russell Brand, Lee Camp and Jimmy Dore have been broadcasting Russian talking points for a while. It looks like Tom Green is starting to spread Russian disinformation on his youtube channel. The Nazis recruited an Irish comedian for their propaganda efforts during World War II and he spread propaganda as Lord Haw Haw.

We shouldn't believe any of Russia's lies. Don't forget that Russia repeatedly denied that they were launching an invasion of Ukraine back in February. Russia also denied that the little green men that seized Crimea during the Olympics were Russian.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/15/1080774883/russians-scoff-at-western-fears-of-ukraine-invasion

https://www.rferl.org/a/from-not-us-to-why-hide-it-how-russia-denied-its-crimea-invasion-then-admitted-it/29791806.html

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[–] DestroFirefly (51) a year ago

Why is it hard if not impossible for you to entertain the possibility that the US - once again - are the cause of this conflict?

Does the hundreds of thousands killed in Iraq in a war for WMD's not make you wonder?

Does the Afghanistan debacle not make you wonder?

Does the Syrian conflicts not make you wonder?

Does the Libyan conflicts not make you wonder?

What about the fact that they have all but perpetually been at war since their inception

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[–] joej2923 (2959) a year ago

Russia decided to invade Ukraine while Macron and Biden were trying to prevent an invasion. Russia had technically invaded Ukraine during 2014 BUT it was on a much smaller scale. The US tried to stop the Russia 2022 invasion.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/17/russia-issues-list-demands-tensions-europe-ukraine-nato

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60281863

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/15/politics/joe-biden-ukraine-speech/index.html

The US invasion of Iraq was a mistake BUT the US did go through diplomatic channels at the United Nations. The US even gave Iraq 48 hours in order for Saddam Hussein and his sons to surrender. 48 hours isn't a lot of time BUT it's better than Russia launching a sudden surprise attack on a sovereign nation with no warning at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/mar/18/iraq.usa1 * 48 hours - not much but better than no warning *

The Afghanistan war was justified since the Taliban allowed the training camps that led to 9/11 and other terrorist attacks. The US should have stayed in Afghanistan since Afghanistan is a shithole again. There is evidence that Russia was supplying arms to the Taliban during the US attempt at nation building.

The US was not directly involved in the Libyan conflict. There was a no-fly zone approved by the UN Security Council so any US involvement was done through the UN. The Libyans killed Quaddaffi and they are still fighting amongst themselves. There are some nations that probably need a dictator since tribal people will just kill each other without a strong authority.

https://press.un.org/en/2011/sc10200.doc.htm * Libya No-fly zone *

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[–] DestroFirefly (51) a year ago

Not only can't you read between the lines (Libyans fighting among themselves) but you take as gospel mainstream propaganda bastion the BBC and questionable rags like the Guardian.

A no fly zone doesn't stop missiles getting launched by from sea with enough accuracy to land on a penny.

The invasion of Iraq was not a "mistake" quite the opposite. It is utterly ludicrous to call it a mistake. It was calculated, it was planned and it cost hundreds of thousands of lives. And who cares if they offered Saddam 48hrs? He was never going to agree and even if he did he would have been hounded and taken in. All the while leaving the gold and oil wide open. Same outcome, so a meaningless gesture to only impress the weak-minded - like you.

"The Afghanistan war was justified since the Taliban allowed the training camps that led to 9/11 and other terrorist attacks. The US should have stayed in Afghanistan since Afghanistan is a shithole again."

Afghanistan was a shithole then, it is a shithole now and it will be a shithole till the last days of this dying planet.

This planet once had a bright future. But you ruined it. Your stupidity and ignorance is so colossal and sanity-shattering it can split entire worlds asunder.

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[–] joej2923 (2959) a year ago

The Guardian has been around for over 200 years while the BBC has been around for over 100 years. I'll trust in their reporting over some upstart website formed in the last few years by conspiracy theorists and propagandists. There is a lot of nonsense on the internet so a filter is required when sifting through information. I've been
following the news for over thirty-five years so I know how to find reputable sources.

Afghanistan is a location of great strategic importance due to natural resources and its proximity to the Middle East. It should not have been abandoned and women's rights advanced in Afghanistan before the Taliban returned to oppress them. Don't forget that the Soviet Union caused problems in Afghanistan when it invaded in 1979.

You said what? ** This planet once had a bright future. But you ruined it. Your stupidity and ignorance is so colossal and sanity-shattering it can split entire worlds asunder. **

I didn't realize that I was the one who ruined the world and I didn't know I could split entire worlds asunder. You've watched too many Marvel movies.

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

Putin tried for a decade to get some action to his security concerns.
Crimea was Russian, and 4 independent Western studies showed that the majority of Crimeans prefer to be under Russia.
Russia never wanted to own/buy/occupy the Donbas, the refused to allow the Donbas to join Russia after a vote. The instead preferred a federated Donbas, autonomous. That was that the phony Minsk agreement was ... and in that time the US armed and trained and fortified Ukraine - and kept making noises about bringing Ukraine in to NATO in an expedited manner.
In Feb. of last year shelling from Ukraine to Donbas hit an all-time high, which was when Russia moved.
So, the Western mainstream media makes a point of saying every time the invasion is mentioned - the "unprovoked" invasion. So they were/are lying too, so you cannot hold lying against the Russians abourt invading.
Ukrainians voted for Zelensky because he promised to end the fighting in Donbas, and as soon as he got elected his "Nationalist: groups threatened to kill him, and the West threatened to withdraw military support - that is, he was left high and dry alone with bad choices all over.
He even tried some avenues to make peace with Russia - all were stopped by either his own Nationalists or the West.
This is nothing but a clever power and resource grab by the US, and that is started to become obvious and apparent as more and more people are learning the full story.
The story is not that Russia is blameless, or good, or that the West is bad, but that there are very good reasons why both sides had to do what they did, but this could have been stopped many times in many ways by Biden, NATO, Ukraine and the West, and they knew what as going to happen and just let it get worse.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

All you are doing is repeating US propaganda and disinformation. The US is the one who spreads disinformation and whips up support for their regime change wars, and when anyone calls the US out on its bullshit they claim that you are spreading Russian disinformation.

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[–] joej2923 (2959) a year ago

I just want people to rely on journalists from reputable institutions for political information. There are a lot of propagandists on social media and on the television stations. I try to post informative articles from reputable news organizations and even some respected think tanks.

I traveled to Ukraine as a tourist so I do have firsthand knowledge of the country and its political situation. Jimmy Dore is a comedian who is NOT qualified to conduct serious discussions of political issues.

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[–] DestroFirefly (51) a year ago

"I just want people to rely on journalists from reputable institutions for political information."

Such as?

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

NPR is not a reliable source. They are pro war, pro corporate, they are Democratic party loyalists that parrot back Democrat talking points, while pretending to be a ublic unbiased network. If you want real investigative journalists, look for independent anti-corporate, non-partisan, critics of US empire. Journalists such as Aaron Maté, Max Bluementhal, Dan Cohen, Glenn Greenwald, and Matt Taibbi. They are the best in the business and they are all anti-establishment. By the way, Glenn Greenwald was the one that broke the Edward Snowden story. He was the only journalists that Edward Snowden trusted with the classified information that he released. All of these journalists have sources in the government that leak information to them.

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

Glen Greenwald is an idiot. When Snowden contacted him he blew him off because he was too stupid and lazy to follow step by step instructions on how to encrypt his emails. It was only Laura Poitras who got Greenwald back in the loop. Since then Greenwald has been all over the map, like he has dementia. He sounds more like Rudy Guillianni than any kind of actual journalist, though I guess he is occasionally fed some true info.
Taibbi is the same way. He was built up to have the image he now has to exploit. His presentation of the Twitter Files is a disgusting joke. Who tries to communicate a serious journalistic story in little two line chunks separaated in time and space with lots of other tweets and comments.
Of the names you've mentions the only one I would have any trust in, and it would very little, would be Aaron Mate. Blumenthal and Cohen are lightweights vying for clicks. NPR is actually very good, but they stay within their mainstream media window for the most part. Democracy Now! is often better. The truth is there is no way for the actual truth to be seen or reported on for Americans. We are prisoners of BS, and that is how our oligarchs like it.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

I agree that Greenwald was inept when it comes to establishing contact with Snowden. However Snowden chose him for a reason. Snowden considers him one of the best journalists out there. As far as his views, he's not been all over the map. What you have to understand is that while he's on the far left (based on his political views he's probably a socialist like his husband David Miranda, however he stays away from the socialist label), he's a civil libertarian first. So when Democrats started to call for censorship and venerate the security state, he turned on them. I think he also has a hatred for the cultural left, something we have in common.

In regard to Aaron Maté, I wholeheartedly agree. I think out of all the people at the GrayZone, he is the best, most meticulous and the most objective. Although I love Max Blumenthal too.

As for Taibbi, I disagree. He is an excellent journalist. He is objective and doesn't let his own politics interfere with his journalism. In other words, he is not a partisan hack like most journalists. And the reason he is doing the Twitter Files that way is because that was the one condition that Musk imposed on him. He wanted to write the story on his Substack, but the only way Musk would agree to hand over the files was if Taibbi agreed to write the story on Twitter. That was the only condition. Taibbi was not initially down with this, but he thought it's just too big of a story to pass up, so he agreed to do it that way.

With respect to Democracy Now!, I used to be a huge fan, but they are not the same Democracy Now! that they used to be.
It was infiltrated by a whole bunch of suspect people with some pretty terrible views, and their journalism changed. They stopped inviting on people like Greenwald, they pushed Russia-gate, and didn't retract it when it was finally proven to be bullshit, and they also pushed pro war talking points. I don't know about Amy Goodman, I would be surprised if her views changed, but the journalism did.

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

Basically Americans have to realize that they don't find out any facts or learn anything someone with money doesn't want to pay to tell them. Another case of unregulated fascist capitalism ruining practically everything. Every major economic sector is configured against the American people and to suck in people with no integrity, loyal, criminals, incompetents, liars, fast-talkers, who sell out their country for money and power.

The press needs a full re-write in the Constitution. Just saying Free Press is free is not enough. And there is far far too much classified information. A mass of stuff from the Kennedy Assassination is still classified. As a kid America lost any unquestioning obedience I ever had that day.

Taibbi has the character of a spy, a turn-coat, and that is exactly what he is. Twitter files is BS. He could have found a way to say whatever it was he had to say. It's BS. Basically he reported like it is a big thing that Twitter found more Right-wing trolls and bots than Left-wing, and so inferred bias. Paid to push Elon Musk's fatuous BS agenda. It's like looking a group of regular people and incarcerated people can claiming it is biased that there are more criminals in the incarcerated group. Not even to mention his writings about his life in Russia. Same thing with Russia-gate, there is a smoking gun there, but there is still not enough to fit the puzzle together. It might have been a distraction operation to get Putin to trust Trump while Trump shipped arms to Ukraine. You can bet we have not heard the end of Russia-gate, it is still useful to someone.

Democracy Now! is simply Democracy Now!, slow and steady. Don't care much for the Middle-Eastern lady. Amy and the Latino dude are good - except when it comes to the Middle-East. They produce good news, and they have a reasonable take on things. If the journalism changed, I think it's gotten better and more to the point, less overlaid with opinion. If it changed it was due to funding.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

Taibbi would not have received the Twitter files if he didn't agree to publish the story on Twitter. If he would have refused, there would be no story. Or the other journalists that have worked on the Twtter files like Bari Weiss would have just received the files and Taibbi would have been excluded. The result would have been the same.

And Taibbi is not a "turn-coat", or a "spy", he is an excellent journalist who does great work. He is objective, non-partisan, and truthful. He is an old school style journalist like his father. He comes from that tradition. Back in the day, journalism was not a profession for elitists. It was a working class gig. There was a time when journalists used to report on stories that reflected the lives of working class people. Now with the corporatisation of the media, it has become a place for elitists. People from ivy league schools that go to the same cocktail parties as the powerful elite they are supposed to be reporting on. The working class journalist working a beat, has been pushed out, and as a result, half of the country, in particular the poor and the working class, have been completely erased. Made invisible. Matt Taibbi is one of the small number of jounalists that actually reports on things that effect the working class. He speaks truth to power.
And you completely misunderstood the value of the Twitter files. It's not about right wing trolls. It's about the government (The FBI and DHS), working in collusion with Twitter to censor American citizens. It's bad enough to censor people on social media, but having the government telling Twitter who to censor violates the 1st amendment. This is a huge deal and the Twitter files exposed this. This should be one of the biggest stories of the decade. But the corporate media is silent. They agree with the censorship. They are authoritarians subservient to the corporate state. It's despicable.

And Democracy Now! has not changed for the better. They have become more establishment.

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

Everything you say is wrong. I guess that is why you have to keep repeating it. Go write your own thread and keep repeating your goofball opinions there. Having to parasite off others is just a sign of insecurity or trolling.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

Everything you say is wrong. I guess that is why you have to keep repeating it.

I am repeating it because it's true, and because you seem to have a thick skull and it's just not getting through. If one is saying something true, it's not going to be different the next time they say it.
Think before you speak.

Go write your own thread and keep repeating your goofball opinions there

Nah, I'm good here.

Having to parasite off others is just a sign of insecurity or trolling

Who am I parasitizing off? Give me an example, otherwise you're asserting something without merit.

As the great Hitch used to say:
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens

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[–] joej2923 (2959) a year ago

NPR has been around for over FIFTY YEARS so I trust them more than some upstart conspiracy theorists posting on the internet. I certainly don't agree with all of their stories BUT I do believe they have access to a worldwide network of reporters that can cover major issues.

If I want news about Canada, I'll check with this Canadian reporter Mate. Blumenthal, Cohen and Greenwald have all reported for Russia Today so I consider all of them to be Russian propagandists. Taibbi spent several years in Russia so he is probably a Russian propagandist or they have kompromat on him.

Edward Snowden is a criminal wanted by the US Federal government and he was granted asylum in RUSSIA. Most of your journalists and heroes have links to RUSSIA. I don't believe the lies of Russians. Those commie bastards in Russia have been lying for over 100 years.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

There was a time that NPR was a credible source. As the name implies, they were a public radio program, meaning that they were supposed to be an unbiased source, however they have been completely co opted by corporate hacks and democratic party loyalists.They often just parrot back state department talking points, which makes them stenographers and not journalists or reporters.

As for Russia, you seem a little unhinged. You sound like you have Russia derangement syndrome. Just because someone worked for RT doesn't make them a Russian propagandist. Chris Hedges had a show on RT, and he's one of the most respected journalists working today. He and the other people you mentioned went to work for RT because RT didn't censor them. They had complete autonomy and could write anything they want without corporate control. They all worked in the mainstream media at one point or another (e.g. Hedges worked for the New York Times), but they were often censored and/or eventually pushed out because of their views on foreign policy, where they were often critical of the US, and exposed US propaganda. The reason almost always had to do with their anti-war stance. The US war machine doesn't like critics of war. Most of them have been blacklisted, so they are unable to find work in the mainstream media after they were pushed out. RT was the best option for them, at lease until they created their own outlets.

And Edward Snowden is an American hero and a patriot who exposed the crimes of the intelligence agencies that illegally and unconstitutionally spied on American citizens. He swore an oath to defend the constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic. And the people who have betrayed our country, and the principles on which it was founded on, are the enemy of the people. They are traitors. They belong in prison. Anyone who defends them is Anti-American and has no place in this country.
Edward Snowden risked his life and freedom to expose these criminals. He deserves a medal.

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[–] joej2923 (2959) a year ago

Chris Hedges is clearly a Russian propagandist. He criticizes the war by the west BUT he does not criticize Russian war efforts. He has been fired by multiple news outlets so he is not widely respected. He has been working for fringe organizations like RT or other social media outlets. Hedges is a propagandist and he is not a reliable source. How often has Hedges criticized Russia's problems? I doubt he has because he was paid by Russia.

The article below covers how Hedges was allowed to criticize the west BUT he did not criticize Russia's practices. I've been following the news for over thirty-five years so I know propaganda.

Far-left journalist Chris Hedges, meanwhile, hosts a show featuring “dissident voices,” ostensibly dedicated to the cause of anti-imperialism, yet has failed to even mention Russia’s actual attempted authoritarian land grab of a democracy.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/im-a-former-russian-tv-anchor-right-wing-media-mimics-russian-media

I am a US citizen and I support domestic spying. The Patriot Act allowed the US government to spy on citizens in order to stop domestic terrorist plots. I am willing to sacrifice some privacy in order to prevent EVIL people from blowing up buildings and detonating bombs in crowds. The old article below shows domestic terrorist plots foiled and the other shows that one of the Tsarnaev brothers who detonated the Boston marathon bombs was a US citizen.

https://www.heritage.org/terrorism/report/fifty-terror-plots-foiled-911-the-homegrown-threat-and-the-long-war-terrorism

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boston-bombing-citizenship/boston-bomber-passed-citizen-test-months-before-deadly-attack-paper-idUSKCN0W21S7

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

Chris Hedges is clearly a Russian propagandist. He criticizes the war by the west BUT he does not criticize Russian war efforts. He has been fired by multiple news outlets so he is not widely respected. He has been working for fringe organizations like RT or other social media outlets. Hedges is a propagandist and he is not a reliable source. How often has Hedges criticized Russia's problems? I doubt he has because he was paid by Russia.

The idea that Chris Hedges, a Pulitzer-prize winning journalist, is a Russian propagandist is preposterous.
Everything you said is so wrong and beyond stupid that it is unworthy of any serious response.

I am a US citizen and I support domestic spying. The Patriot Act allowed the US government to spy on citizens in order to stop domestic terrorist plots. I am willing to sacrifice some privacy in order to prevent EVIL people from blowing up buildings and detonating bombs in crowds. The old article below shows domestic terrorist plots foiled and the other shows that one of the Tsarnaev brothers who detonated the Boston marathon bombs was a US citizen.

You are a disgusting traitor. You have absolutely no place in this country. You should be stripped of your US citizenship and deported. What you are essentially saying is that my rights and my privacy should be violated because it might potentially stop "bad guys". Sorry, that is not acceptable. I will not allow a subhuman like you to violate my rights. You are the evil that we should be fighting. The citizens and patriots of this country should rise up and round up people like you. You are a cancer in our society. And you know what we do with cancer; We bombard it with radiation and/or cut it out of the host body.
I spit on you.

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[–] joej2923 (2959) a year ago

Anyone affiliated with Russia Today is a Russia propagandist. Independent press does not exist in Russia.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/rt-news/ * RT rated a questionable source *

I'm a third-generation US citizen and I don't plan on going anywhere. You're probably a Russian troll spreading Russian propaganda on the internet. You only call me names because you can't win the debate. I've been following the news for over 35 years so I can recognize the difference between objective reporting and propaganda.

The Patriot Act was passed a long time ago and it has resulted in several arrests of terrorists. You might want to leave the country if you can't handle surveillance by law enforcement. I have nothing to hide so I don't mind the extra surveillance. The articles below show how several terrorist plots were foiled by law enforcement.

https://ktla.com/hill-politics/michigan-attorney-general-says-fbi-confirmed-she-was-target-of-plot-to-kill-jewish-officials/

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/07/opinions/terrorist-plots-new-york-los-angeles-isis-campbell/index.html

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/indiana-isis-supporter-sentenced-102218

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

You have some sort of Russia Derangement Syndrome. Just because RT America was affiliated with RT doesn't mean that it wasn't independent. Everyone that worked at RT America said that they had full independence, which is not something you can say about American corporate media, whether print or TV. They were never given any notes or memos to talk or not talk about anything. You were allowed to criticize Russia on RT, which a lot of people did, including Chris Hedges on his show 'No Contact', which was taken down by YouTube in order to censor these independent journalists, after the war in Ukraine (which was provoked by the US). This is just as bad as the Soviet Union used to be, and people like you are the reason why.

The Patriot Act betrays the principles set in the constitution. I don't give a fuck which generation you are from, you are a traitor to the principles this country was founded on. America is not like other countries. It is not the land or even the people that make us America. It is the idea. The idea this country was founded on. You are the antithesis of an American. You talk about Russians? You are a bigger threat to America that the Russians could ever be. You are the enemy from within.
This is not name calling. I am calling you a traitor as a matter of fact, not as an ad hominem attack.
I'm also calling you a subhuman because you want to take away my rights, which means that you have broken the social contract. This means that your rights are null and void as well. And since I no longer have to respect your human rights, you are, for all intents and purposes, a subhuman.

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[–] joej2923 (2959) a year ago

There isn't any press freedom in Russia. Russia is a totalitarian dictatorship and Putin has basically been in charge of Russia for over 22 years. RT propagandists did not criticize Russia or Putin.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-crackdown-independent-media-and-access-information-online

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/ukraine/2022/03/08/russia-free-speech-press-criminalization-misinformation/9433112002/
over
https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/why-reporter-quit-rt/

The laws have to be updated for the times. The Constitution was written over 200 years ago before automatic weapons, ICBM's and dirty bombs. Support for the Patriot Act has waned but I hope others will eventually realize that these laws protect US citizens from terrorist attacks.

You are once again attacking me with ad hominem attacks. You know nothing of my background and I don't want to know anything about you.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) a year ago

Your background doesn't matter. You don't matter. You are a traitor to the constitution and you support policies that are violating my natural rights. You are an enemy of the people, and don't belong in this country. You need to be stripped of your citizenship, rounded up, and deported. Since you don't respect the rights of others, no one should respect your rights either.

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

Why do you have to inject so much white space at the end of your comment?

Comedians can say what no one else will say. But the comedians you point to have been studying these political issue for a long time and have well developed and supported positions. And most of the experts are of the professional managerial class, are are just shills for the system. We've really seen that powerfully in what was going on with Fox News.

I think anyone should be able to express themselves and what they have found out and what they make of it in the public forum, the so-called marketplace of ideas. Their logical should be based on their ideas, the facts and the arguments they make. The system is so cut-throat today that just about any idea is pre-digested for our brainwashing delight, just like all the politicians we are presented to vote for have been vetted many times before they make it to any serious office.

Paul Jay of the theanalysis.news, is one who has studied and made many documentaries on these subjects, and he has a lot of credibility as well as expertise. There people talk to a lot of people, experts on both sides. That is an education in itself.

Then there are the serious people like the military people, or Jeffrey Sachs, John Mearsheimer, and others who put together a much more solid case/model/narrative than what we hear in the mainstream media.

I'd say in this case, Dore, condenses it, fires it up, popularizes it, and cartoonifies is to get through to people whose attention span and patience is not as long as people who are genuinely interested in finding out the truth. It took me weeks and months of reading and searching to find out what is going on in Ukraine, and then to check it with other sources, and find the holes in the different sides' logic.

The thing is that Russia Today surely contains some Russian Propaganda, but that is true of any opinion outlet. Look at the verified facts, not the opinion. RT gives some voices the support they need to be heard, it does not automatically implant beliefs in people's brains - that is up to them what to make of it.

I don't dismiss RT, or Al Jazeera or Democracy Now! because all of them have done excellent reporting. But on certain issues I will be more critical. Like Democracy Now! always has to ram the side of the Palestinians down their viewers' throats. I have theories on why that is, but the Palestinian cause whatever you believe it to be, has nothing to do with Leftist/Progressive politics in the US, and including it by always shoehorning it in is just turning off and turning away an awful lot of people who find it stupid, irrelevant and offensive. Is that on purpose.

We will always have broken politics as long as we keep believing parties, or networks, or people, or books instead of looking closely at the facts, known and unknown of issues and putting together contingency models from the perspective of the people.

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[–] joej2923 (2959) a year ago

I know not to believe Jimmy Dore based on his anti-US rant on the Tucker Carlson show at the beginning of February. He called the US terrorists and he accused the US of blowing up the Nord Stream pipeline. He stated that Russia and China were friends of the US. He discouraged viewers from trusting the US government and that has always been the aim of Communist propagandists. The US isn't perfect but it's better than most of the shithole countries in the world. Dore should move to Russia or China if he hates the US so much.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/02/01/jmmy_dore_your_enemy_is_not_china_or_russia_your_enemy_is_the_military-industrial_complex.html

I only disapprove of RT because it is a direct arm of the Kremlin. Russia has shut down all independent media outlets and journalists who criticize the government usually end up falling to their deaths out of windows.

https://www.voanews.com/a/press-freedom_russian-media-fights-survival-under-putin/6193044.html

https://www.newsweek.com/russians-keep-mysteriously-falling-windows-deaths-1738954

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/21/604497554/why-do-russian-journalists-keep-falling

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

Ad hominems all.
Just worry about the stuff you can prove as fact, and disregard where it comes from. They are all bought and sold, but some of them do what they can, and those that actually get something done are in prison, like Assange.

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[–] joej2923 (2959) a year ago

I support prison time for Assange. His website was leaking classified information that was damaging to the US. He also leaked the Clinton e-mails before the election and he claimed that Trump was going to offer him a pardon if he claimed that Russia did not hack the e-mails. There is evidence that Assange was holding talks with Roger Stone about the e-mails before the election. It looks like it's an anti-US website since the big leaks appear to be US documents. I don't know much about it and I believe it's against the law for US citizens to access that site.

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/495181-fbi-releases-documents-showing-roger-stone-julian-assange/

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/04/11/julian-assange-six-wikileaks-most-memorable-revelations/3434371002/

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[–] CarterBlunt (1031) a year ago

Bollocks. Russia didn't consider Crimea an invasion, it was a referendum in which the people rushed out to vote over 90% in favor of rejoining Russia. Lee Camp is completely transparent about his RT job, and his views have been consistent ever since he was on The Young Turks, before they sold out to Fusion. Proof or F off.

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[–] Skavau (11313) a year ago

A referendum that only happened because Russian troops occupied the region.

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[–] joej2923 (2959) a year ago

Russia does not hold fair elections. Russia does not understand democracy. They conducted sham referendums at gunpoint in 2022 and 2014.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11247695/Moment-soldiers-armed-assault-rifles-force-residents-cast-vote-sham-referendum.html

Russia did not even initially acknowledge that the little green men in Crimea were actually Russian troops with their insignias covered.

https://news.sky.com/story/putin-comes-clean-on-crimeas-little-green-men-10368423

The Russians were in eastern Ukraine as early 2014. A world court found that a Russian missile was used to shoot down the MH17 passenger plane in 2014 and it was shot down from eastern Ukraine.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63637625 * Russia guilty of shooting down MH17 *

Anybody associated with RT is a Russian propagandist. Russia does not have freedom of the press.

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[–] CarterBlunt (1031) a year ago

"Russia does not hold fair elections. Russia does not understand democracy."
Not sure what that's supposed to mean. I'm in the US, where the guy with 3 million less votes wins, and Trumpers are still saying Biden is illegitimate.

"They conducted sham referendums at gunpoint in 2022 and 2014."
Did they shoot the people who voted "no"?

"Anybody associated with RT is a Russian propagandist. Russia does not have freedom of the press."
RT America is news by Americans, in America, covering American news. They 100% had freedom of the press, until they were censored by the west of course, and deplatformed.

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[–] joej2923 (2959) a year ago

Putin has basically been running the show in Russia since 1999. He served as VP for four years while his party changed the constitution so he could be ruler-for-life. Russia is a totalitarian dictatorship with most of Putin's KGB cronies installed in important positions. Russia doesn't understand democracy since they were ruled by commies for 80+ and a harsh Tsarist regime for hundreds of years.

The popular vote doesn't matter with the electoral college. It's winner-take-all in the electoral college in most of the states so a President can win with six or seven BIG states. The President call also win all the electoral votes in a state with a 51% victory.

https://www.npr.org/2016/11/02/500112248/how-to-win-the-presidency-with-27-percent-of-the-popular-vote

A lot of people in Crimea have disappeared. They could have been shot or sent to a Russian penal colony.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/11/17/rights-retreat/abuses-crimea

RT America was shut down because it is Russian propaganda funded by the Russian government. Mediabiasfactcheck destroyed RT in its review. I've been following the news for thirty-five years and I know the difference between objective reporting and propaganda.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/rt-news/

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[–] CarterBlunt (1031) a year ago

You are a conspiracy theorist dumb enough to still be watching the news after the last 35 years happened.

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[–] Bubbathegut (17285) a year ago

This is what 81 million people voted for right? What did you expect to happen?

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[–] [deleted] a year ago

it's been a scam from day one, i like something that jordan peterson said years ago, that theres nothing more dangerous than someone who thinks he's defending a noble cause, peoples only aim today is show how "nice" they are.

put the ukraine flag up on social media, and the actual reality of the situation isn't important to them.

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

I hate Jordan Peterson because his trademark is to always make these overly simplistic and broad statements about people that when you look at them mean nothing. His whole life is pandering, so it is odd that when he complains about pandering his panderees don't get it.

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[–] [deleted] a year ago

i stopped listening when he promoted the vax, but having said that his statement on blind "niceness" is very true. and very telling of our society.

they put the ukraine flag up on social media, get little butterflies in their stomach because of how nice they are. but have no interest in the facts.

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

What Peterson calls "blind niceness" is just another Right-wing ahole way to warring against civility. Calling someone who is nice, polite, politically correct, woke, is just another way to subconscious frame everyone to accept the complete ahole's way of life so they cannot get together and see who their real enemy is. In that aspect, Jimmy Dore is dead on. There is nothing wrong with being civil and respecting people, there if far too little of it. It is glorified because it helps the exploiters to be able to ignore democracy.

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[–] [deleted] a year ago

the problem with the left is that they are using this "niceness" to block out all free speech and common sense. we're forced to deny reality in the name of niceness, not question anything in the name of niceness.

dont wanna get vaxxed? "you're a bad person" don't believe a dude with a wig on is a broad? "you're not nice!"

don't have a ukrane flag on twitter?! "you're mean!"

and chumps who don't understand basic anything, have no real aim at inteligence, just shut up, follow the narrative and be nice.

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[–] Rorikon (16860) a year ago

Using the people that live there which is their home to fight an enemy that's trying to take 1/3rd of their land.... RIIITTTEEE! Oh yeah, US interfered in the election that didn't back a pro-Putin stooge so therefore it's a coup and yet the majority of Ukrainians are still fighting for their home. The so-called prosecuted Russians must be very small.

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[–] brux (14666) a year ago

Dore doesn't really tell the whole story.
Before Yanukovych, the US installed Victor Yushenko, a US puppet who was so bad he was voted out in favor of who you call a Putin stooge. That Putin stooge as you wrongly call him was working to set up a dual economic relationship with the EU and Russia to have the benefits of both trading partners. For that he was attacked in his home and driven out of the country by the Nazis America co-opted.

Why don't, instead of guessing and making up stuff, you go and read and find out the facts?

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[–] JoWilli (16896) a year ago

Russia invaded Crimea in 2014 and Ukraine in 2021, coincidence? its a huge misconception that dems are anti-war.

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[–] WarrenPeace (2267) a year ago

No need to convince me because I agree with the perspective and truth that Jimmy Dore brings to the situation which the MSM will too happily avoid to push their pro war agenda.

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