MovieChat Forums > Politics > Gazan searches for family under rubble

Gazan searches for family under rubble


"Mom please answer me!"
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/E_NAiHt1bbo

Man holds his dead 2-month old. Then, points to his three other dead children. He vowed he will put a tent over the rubble which was once his home and never leave.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nKkylhh0J1k

I saw a TV ad over the weekend trying to create positive public opinion about Israel in the face of public protests. A 30-second PR ad isn't going to counter human carnage on the news.

Killing Hamas changes nothing. More anger and hatred are created with each death. Netanyahu doesn't understand that because he's a sociopath. Neither does he care about the hostages because their families pleaded not to go to war and negotiate releases. Certainly not bomb Gaza while they are still being held there.

Meanwhile, U.S. soldiers, ships and nuke submarine are in the region. So much for Israel fighting its own war.

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You supported the death of millions and now you can't stop propagandizing about foreign children.

You should have voted for Trump.

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Why would they vote for Trump? He is a complete imbecile and is now facing 91 felony charges mostly for being a traitor. Trump will never be president again. Sorry for you.

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Keelai,

What does the fact that a Gazan is searching for family under rubble supposed to prove? In every war in which people get bombed there are buildings that get turned into rubble and people trapped under that rubble. That's just the way war works. The varying descriptions you use in all your OPs about the situation in Gaza don't really prove anything.

With people who don't believe that Israel should exist or don't even believe that Jews have a right to exist in the Muslim world there's no chance of convincing them to have a positive view of Israel. People with a positive view of Israel view the carnage through the lens of their belief in Israel's right to defend its people, Israel's right to exist and the right of Jews to exist in the Muslim world.

As I already explained in a whole OP, Hamas is fully dedicated to Israel's destruction. Israel can't tolerate the existence of Hamas. Doing anything Hamas wants doesn't make Israel any safer. That's what Bibi understands and he's not a sociopath, no matter how many times you claim he is. You say that as if you're a professional psychiatrist who can diagnose him from halfway across the world. Bibi certainly cares about the hostages. The fact that some of the families of the hostages didn't want him to go to war with Hamas doesn't prove otherwise. He simply believes in a different strategy to save the hostages. The Hamas demands for releasing the hostages are unacceptable to the Israeli leadership and it believes that the best way to get Hamas to release the hostages is to intensify the IDF attack on Hamas in Gaza.

The mere presence of U.S. military forces near Israel doesn't prove that Israel is not fighting its own war. The U.S. military hasn't done anything to attack Hamas.

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Your family bought land and built a house on it centuries ago. You still have the deed.

A few years ago, some armed men from a different continent shot and killed your dad and told you to leave your house or you would be killed, too. They pointed to a book written by their invisible friend as evidence that they can claim your house based solely on being the "correct religion".

You plea with their court to keep your house and land while showing your deed. But, the court decides against you while pointing to the book written by their invisible friend.

You and your family flee taking the few belongings you can carry. You live in a refugee camp waiting for the day you can return home.

Initially, there were 750,000 waiting. Now, there are over 8+ million growing each day as more families are forced from their homes.

Some men from the refugee camp take up arms to reclaim their families' homes. You already justified their killings by writing anything goes during war.

The original sin is that foreigners came and stole the land and houses from 750,000 people.

No fair court on this planet would agree that you deserved to lose your house because you weren't Jewish.

No fair court on this planet wouldn't agree that you should be able to reclaim your home and land and the foreigners must leave and give you restitution.

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So now you're completely changing the subject. What happened to your narrative about a Gazan searching for family under rubble? Did I make you realize it wasn't all that compelling? Your new story is even less compelling. It's actually quite obnoxious because you're bringing up issues that I already addressed on this forum or that I even discussed directly with you.

You talk about the Jewish belief that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews as if the Palestinians don't believe the exact same thing in reverse, that they have a religious belief that the land of Palestine belongs to them. Hamas believes that they're religiously obligated to fight Israel until Muslims regain control over all of Palestine. And Hamas also believes that Muslims should conquer the entire world. It's a common belief among Muslims that they should conquer the entire world. Islam started with the attempt to conquer the entire world, grabbing millions of square miles of land. The Muslims quickly got rid of all the non-Muslims from their holy land of Arabia and as a result Saudi Arabia is now an 830,000 square mile state that bans non-Muslims from citizenship. And the Palestinians shamefully expect Saudi Arabia to help them. Turnabout is fair play.

You talk about a Palestinian losing his home as if it's morally beyond the pale when it's actually quite normal for people all over the world. Jews have been forced out of their homes numerous times in numerous place over the last 2,000 years. As I already explained to you, the Arab states did this to hundreds of thousands of Jews after Israel was established. And the Palestinians shamefully expected these countries to help them. This was even done to Jews inside Palestine. When Jordan conquered the West Bank and East Jerusalem in 1948 all the Jews in those areas were forced out of their homes. Even Palestinians themselves have done that to Jews. After the 1929 Hebron pogrom the survivors were forced to leave that city. The Palestinians have even less respect for Jewish home ownership rights than the Israelis do for Palestinian home ownership rights. Turnabout is fair play.

There are NOT 8 million Palestinian refugees. Most of the actual refugees are no longer alive. The vast majority of those 8 million people are actually the *descendants* of refugees. I never said that "anything goes in war". I only said that necessary actions that actually help win the war are justified. See the difference? And Hamas massacring a thousand Israeli civilians didn't do anything to help them win their war against Israel. Hamas has now retreated to its tunnels in Gaza and is now militarily weaker than it was before the attack on Israel.

What happens to Palestinian homes is a result of the Mideast's zero-sum politics. It's all a matter of what ethnic or sectarian group is in charge of a country. No court on Earth, no matter how fair or unfair it is, can do anything to change that.

The original sin is the zero-sum politics of the Mideast which forced the Jews to fight and win a war for survival against the surrounding Arabs.

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It is fighting its own war, just that the US doesn't want outside actors interfering. Personally they should fight Hezbollah and Hamas by themselves since it's in their region but if Youthi's or Iran steps in then that changes the game. At the end of the day, both sides want to wipe each other out so who really cares in the end. One side wants 2 state solution while the other wants just 1 as a whole.

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Let's both be 100% honest using logic and observation. After all, repeating their government lies don't make them true.

1. Israel isn't fighting its own war.

The U.S. supplies $3 billion military aid each year and asked for $14.5 billion more immediately. Israel asked the U.S. for more missiles for its Iron Dome defense. U S. is supplying military advice, intelligence, soldiers, sea and air defense and threatening other countries.

2. Both Netanyahu and Hamas want a 1-state solution.

Netanyahu and former Israeli leaders propped-up and helped finance Hamas because they knew Hamas was also against a 2-state solution like they were. Israel has continued to slowly steal more Palestinian land for decades by forcing them off it and creating illegal Jewish settlements which now have close to 800,000 Jewish settlers.

Abbas of the Palestinian Authority and Israeli opposition leader Yair Lapid both support a 2-state solution.

3. Israel isn't fighting a true war.

Bombing unarmed civilians, half of whom are children, is genocide. Telling 1.1 million people to leave their land is ethnic cleansing.

The NY Times recently printed an article about the alternative to violence which India pursued after their terrorist attack. It makes good points about why declaring war was a bad idea and how finding Hamas could've been done differently.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/29/opinion/israel-hamas-ceasefire.html

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Israel most certainly is fighting a true war. Unarmed civilians have been killed by bombing in every war in the past 100 years. In the modern world a true war is one in which civilians are bombed.

And bombing civilians in NOT genocide. There isn't a single definition of 'genocide' that automatically makes a war become genocide just because civilians are killed by bombing in that war. In 1999 during the U.S. bombing campaign against Yugoslavia, a bomb was accidentally dropped on the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, killing 3 Chinese journalists. That clearly didn't mean that the U.S. committed genocide against the Chinese.

Israel most certainly is fighting its own war. The U.S. has done nothing to actually fight it. Giving money for military aid does NOT constitute "fighting". No U.S. soldiers or weapons have been used to fight Hamas. And Jewish settlements in the West Bank are NOT illegal:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israeli-settlements-are-not-illegal

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[deleted]

A "true invasion of Gaza" is by definition a true war. The fact that Palestinian civilians are dying doesn't change that. During World War II the Allies killed 300,000-600,000 German civilians by carpet bombing German cities. That wasn't genocide or terrorism and what Israel is doing in Gaza is clearly neither of those things either. Civilians have been bombed in every war of the past 100 years. In the modern world a real war is one in which civilians are bombed. It's impossible to strike Hamas targets in Gaza without also killing Palestinian civilians so Israel is not committing terrorism.

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[deleted]

So you're completely unable to prove that what Israel is doing is not a true war. I'll continue to defend Israel's choice to destroy Hamas, which is literally impossible without killing any civilians in the process. Knowing that truth makes it very easy for me to sleep at night. I don't know that Israel is guilty of war crimes. If Israel is guilty of some war crimes then that could just mean that we need comprehensive reform of the international laws of war. Israel holds itself to a much higher standard than the Allies did when they fought Germany and Japan. They couldn't have possibly won World War II by holding themselves to the same standard that Israel does.

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[deleted]

So you're saying that what's happening in Israel isn't a "true war" because of the military sophistication of Hamas, something completely out of Israel's control. You're saying it's not a "true war" because of the military sophistication of Hamas and not because of anything Israel is doing. But that's just a completely nonsense definition of 'true war'. And even if what's happening isn't a true war then that doesn't reflect negatively on Israel. Even if your definition of 'true war' were correct then it would just mean Israel has no obligation to fight a 'true war'.

What's unfair is that Hamas massacred over a thousand Israelis and kidnapped over 200 to hold as hostage. What's unfair is that Hamas uses Gazan civilians as human shields. Israel has no obligation to avoid war with Hamas just because it has a more sophisticated military than Hamas. In contrast, Israel is specifically obligated to destroy Hamas because of the Hamas attack on Israel a month ago.

As I told you before, civilians have been bombed in every modern war. Gaza is very crowded and Hamas does everything in its power to use civilians as human shields against Israeli attacks. It's impossible for Israel to hit Hamas targets without killing any civilians. You refuse to acknowledge that fact. You aren't certain of the truth about how many Gazans have actually died, how many of the dead are Hamas or the circumstances in which all those people died. It's anything but a "cold blooded slaughter". Less than one person has died for each Israeli bomb dropped on Gaza.

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A very interesting movie against the current backdrop in Israel and also timely as we approach Veteran's Day. https://moviechat.org/tt0060218/Cast-a-Giant-Shadow. The protagonist's epitaph reads, 'A Soldier for All Humanity.'

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Just like one of Obama's drone strikes in Afghanistan.

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The Obama didn't bomb schools, hospitals, ambulances and kill journalists and U.N. aid workers en masse. There were times when the U.S. refused to bomb a target because there were civilians.

Israel is much worse, but the U.S. is complicit right now.

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The Obama administration certainly did bomb a hospital:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz_hospital_airstrike

Obama's drone strikes alone killed hundreds of civilians. And there are also times that Israel didn't bomb a target because civilians were in the way. Israel has never bombed Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza even though Hamas uses it as a base of operations.

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Bombed a wedding ceremony too.

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The lucky girls were burned alive after they was gang raped.
https://youtu.be/LxwAnKymPmE

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