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If people don't want to talk about certain subjects they may feel uncomfortable with, do they have to?

posted 3 years ago by TheMan18 (12721)
64 replies | jump to latest

Hi folks.

Now, I understand of course that indifference is not an option and that ignoring a problem isn't going to make it go away. I also understand that people are, and can be, different and some people react to certain matters differently than others. And there will always be disagreements, arguments, controversies, outrages, differences of opinion and handling of certain situations and that is simply a fact of life. However, I was also wondering...

If people don't want to talk about certain subjects as opposed to WANTING to and doing so because its necessary and right, however (and understandably) uncomfortable it might be, do they have a right to do so?

I have read at times online people say stuff like "[Insert a particularly sensitive subject] people should not simply believe and act like this doesn't exist", and OK fair enough, but what if people just can't help it? Also, what if people do NOT necessarily think that "it doesn't exist" but just want to avoid it because for them it may be taboo, does that make them wrong and also culpable and blameworthy etc? Why not just blame the perpetrators in certain offenses or people who said/did something wrong etc, and also, why do such nuances and distinctions exist in SOME matters but not in OTHERS that may ALSO be considered wrong, hurtful and/or even ILLEGAL by law definition-wise, and also immoral under say dictionary definition? And what about some people who are NOT say bigoted and prejudiced but just not entirely AWARE of certain issues etc. Heck, what about some people who think, and not necessarily in bad faith but incorrectly, in ways that are more OPTIMISTIC and hopeful rather than just expressing anger and outrage?

I also notice that indeed, we, in humanity, often look at many different issues, including wrong ones, DIFFERENTLY and that even murder, for example, is looked at differently than some issues. Indeed, certain matters we are sensitive to and fear more, and sadly, there are opposite extremes and whatnot.

But yeah, if someone doesn't feel like talking about something and doing so directly, is that alright or do we have to prove them wrong? Thank you.

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

Well... What do we think? Anyone have any thoughts or opinions? (By the way, is there even a right or wrong answer to this?)

[–] jonathan_k80 (6436) 3 years ago

I believe "freedom of speech" includes the right not to discuss a subject if you don't want to.

[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

No one should be forced to talk about something they don’t want to.

[–] AndyKing1967 (35366) 3 years ago

I don’t know why, but I thought of this: -
https://youtu.be/cRS6hkIXgUY

[–] Otter (24464) 3 years ago

I now have a blanket policy of telling co-workers "I really don't like to talk about politics at work", because doing so is likely to make enemies out of people who are going to need to work as a team in critical situations. And I stick to it.

Everyone's been okay with it, at least to my face, the only person who's had trouble with it is No-Filters Guy. He does love to rant and doesn't listen to other people very much, but I'm usually able to head him off by asking him about his side gig.

[–] jonathan_k80 (6436) 3 years ago

I do the same. I don't talk about politics, so if somebody starts getting on the subject I immediately and politely shut down the conversation and suggest we talk about something more pleasant. Politics is evil and I want nothing to do with it, and this includes discussion of it.

Anyone who feels the need to constantly inject stupid politics into everything obviously needs to get a life.

[–] snepts (11123) 3 years ago

I'm sure some will refuse to believe that while I agree with you as a practical matter -- I don't like to engage with zealots especially if I disagree, and even folks I might agree with I am leery of getting too worked up over -- (but when I have close and trusted friends who articulate their thoughts, I am more than happy to chime in) ...

It's kind of like Parenting. We can pretend Politics simply doesn't exist and our Environment is simply the result of Industry and Good Will and Progress, and that's emphatically not the case. As with Parenting, some people will Helicopter, some will Spare The Rod, some people will Abdicate Responsibility, and we as a society need to examine this, how to get the best results and encourage good parenting.

So it is with politics. We need to know how our our money is spent and what direction the country is taking. I don't want to talk about divisive issues at every turn, but it's not like we can turn our backs to a problem and hope it will go away.

[–] jonathan_k80 (6436) 3 years ago

"We need to know how our our money is spent and what direction the country is taking."

I totally agree here. These are important issues, along with climate change, the COVID-19 pandemic, social injustice, the widening wealth gap, and many others that affect every citizen and the nation as a whole.

There are too many insignificant issues that are blown out of proportion and dominate the news broadcasts. Ridiculous topics like Dr. Seuss books, removal of Confederate statues or someone kneeling during the national anthem. How are any of these a threat to national security or harmful to the citizenry?

We need to take a long look and reassess what constitutes an important issue.

[–] snepts (11123) 3 years ago

The problem is a lot of the populace hasn't been taught critical thinking skills and are easily manipulated with totems that attack their shallow sensibility. I liked Dr Seuss as a kid and for the most part he serves a good function for how kids learn about the world. But some people want to use that fondness for Mr Geisel (think that's how you spell his real name) for some other purpose, and shallow thinking people will take it up like it's the erosion of cultural norms.
It's like giving a dog a treat. That dog might really want to rush outside, but toss a small treat into the kennel, and there it goes.

[–] jriley555 (7313) 3 years ago

the only situations where one may be legitimately coerced, at least, to weigh in on matters is where that is part of the job, or a duty of the post, or a responsibility as a care-giver.

other than that (and perhaps a few limited scenarios i missed) in a reasonably free society one should be free to keep one's peace.

thinking of how this might be considered an issue, is the current notion that we have an obligation to speak out against injustice, racism, etc, etc. this is also something that falls under our own freedom & judgement. in principle i accept that moral obligation, but reserve the right to execute it as i see fit.

in my experience, convincing others uncongenial to my political/world views has proven challenging. i simply have to speak my assessment on the nature of things when i feel it called for, hopefully clearly & without rancor, and let the chips fall where they may.

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

Also, what do you think, and how do you feel, about the fact that some "things" are more sensitive and hot-button issues than others and that even in fictional movie scenarios, they tend to generate discussions and controversies on a different level than other bad things? And do you think its natural and normal?

(Whilst I often did ask that question, few people actually delved into it and attempted to answer it in an objective and satisfying enough manner. Some people often chose the easier options and simply accused those people of being "wrong" and "selfish". And whilst on the extreme side an argument can be made that such comments are toxic and harmful etc, on a basic level, I often couldn't help but also feel frustrated at the fact that those comments I personally did not find HELPFUL ENOUGH and that they were unable to satisfy my curiosity on the order of "There there".

Besides, not all "selfishness" is equally bad and wrong etc. To some, its a form of self-preservation. To other people, they can't help but be more emotional. Not everyone can simply objectively explore things and provide all the right and satisfying answers just like that.)

[–] jriley555 (7313) 3 years ago

sensitive areas usually revolve around controversial topics (hot political issues) which revolve, these days, around the role of government, the mental acuity of whatever political faction one opposes, sexuality/gender issues, limits on freedom of expression, the use of force internally/externally, possession of assault rifles, the virtue, or lack thereof, of the current or recent presidents, and matters of taste - in art, music, entertainment, comedy, drama, fantasy

did i leave anything out ? anyhoo, yes - people feel differently about many things, and the more sensitive the subject, the more contentious discussions may become, since people defend what they love, attack what they detest, and there is a certain proprietary aspect to human nature - these are, in that sense, things/possessions.

but i have to say, your commentary is more than a little unfocused - but i think/hope that was basically what you were asking.

[–] snepts (11123) 3 years ago

Well put.

[–] BeaSouth (2986) 3 years ago

SNL did a skit on the concept of forcing people to discuss hot button issues

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cNvEWxbLSEA

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

Also, is murder, as in, pre-meditated intentional killings of innocent people, also a sensitive and a hot-button issue?

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

(Cause when I often talked about it, no one was really irked per se and it was often treated as a respectable type of disturbing topic. INCLUDING in fictional movie scenarios.)

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

And in a nutshell, let's come to a SATISFYING final answer to ALL of this, thank you.

[–] jriley555 (7313) 3 years ago

that was -funny-.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

That's funny ... I didn't know Ellen used to be a man either.

[–] ShogunofYonkers (74263) 3 years ago

In America we can choose to not get involved in discussions we don't want to and we can say most anything we wish (as long as we are not crossing a certain, well understood line)

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

One minor question I have is - in here, at least, have *I* ever really crossed that line?

[–] ShogunofYonkers (74263) 3 years ago

No, you are a fine fellow

Your very long and confusing posts are legendary, everyone has to read them three times to figure out WTF you're going on about, you are always polite and in my opinion you are top people (but don't think so much dude, just go out and do stuff)

✌️PALS

[–] AndyKing1967 (35366) 3 years ago

This post has crossed that line! The rules of the internet dictate that we must now hurl insults at each other, peppered with the words ‘woke’, ‘snowflake’ and phrases such as ‘alt-right, ‘libtard’ and whatever else is currently trending; ‘Yo mamma’ jokes are optional.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

Well done, you woke alt-right, libtard, snowflake, yo mamma joke ;-) (oops, forgot that smiley )

[–] AndyKing1967 (35366) 3 years ago

Ok, I think this is where I’m meant to call you a ‘Cheeto eating basement dweller’.

[–] ShogunofYonkers (74263) 3 years ago

You forgot to mention the Mountain Dew Andy, you are slipping😃

[–] AndyKing1967 (35366) 3 years ago

Wait! What? Mountain Dew? I can’t keep up.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

I don't eat Cheetos any more, but I used to, but I have never had a basement, nor my mom.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

> (as long as we are not crossing a certain, well understood line)

What well-understood line is that? If you'll look down I believe you'' notice that line has been erased.

[–] ShogunofYonkers (74263) 3 years ago

You can't shout 'FIRE' in a crowded theater, death threats will lead to Police action and slander/libel often causes a well deserved lawsuit

These lines are well known and respected by non-nutjobs

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

The problem is capitalism ... that is, theaters are so desperate for customers I believe they would overlook anyone screaming FIRE in a theater, as long as you are not shooting people in the audience. That's a line that has moved ... no one's spending power is taken for granted and the criminal's are more respected.

[–] ShogunofYonkers (74263) 3 years ago

My polite answer was what you read and you start in with random baloney about economic systems..?

You are weird

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

Yeah, I am weird since I do not name-call at the drop of a hat.
If you think the gun industry has nothing to do with this, you are not well informed.
Look at who funds the NRA.
And that is the dysfunction in capitalism.

[–] ShogunofYonkers (74263) 3 years ago

Yeah, you are f'ing nuts

Hide under your bed with your helmet strapped on Jellybean, it's a big scary world!

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

That's dumb.

[–] ShogunofYonkers (74263) 3 years ago

So stop hiding under your bed in a football helmet...I'm very patient with oddballs

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

Example ?

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

Never mind!

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

>> If people don't want to talk about certain subjects

You posted it ... what topics?

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

Private Message from TheMan18

The thing is, there ARE indeed some topics that many feel like they don't want to or are unable to talk about. Think, for instance, aspects related to sexual abuse, or politics, or prejudice etc, yet other people may often go out of their way and say it is absolutely necessary for us to talk about them, because we have a social responsibility to do so.

At certain times I wonder if people cannot help it if they should be allowed not to talk about it if they do not want to. And if they should be judged for it or just accepted.

Because online, I often see arguments and controversies and people constantly disagreeing. Others manage successfully to remain calm, and they don't overthink or question things etc.

Basically, sensitive issues. Or one of them anyways.

OK, fine, now I understand what you were trying to talk about. Why can't that be part of you original post? Lots of stuff like that, and no, why should people have to talk about stuff, especially if they might be getting trolled or micro-aggressed about it?

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

Come on man, I didn't send you it in private so you could post it, I mean OK if you want to but, anyways...

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

Why did you ... I think it is a good point and it makes your original post understandable.

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

OK, well, you might be right, but I was a little shy you know...

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

No sweat, but giving a good example makes all the difference. The link above to the SNL skit make a joke out of it, but yeah, people should not have to feel attacked or like they must justify something about themselves, or even others. The concept of polite society, respect and courtesy is very much missing in this country now compared to when I was a kid.

[–] BeaSouth (2986) 3 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ShogunofYonkers (74263) 3 years ago

It's poor form to post PMs from legit, decent posters

Don't do that

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

I think I can rely on my own judgement to decide what to do. It was the right thing to do here, and there was nothing personal or damaging or even revealing that I was publishing ... so just shut up.

[–] ShogunofYonkers (74263) 3 years ago

You revealed two things:
1. TheMan is inquisitive, polite and harmless in PMs

2. You are not to be trusted

PS: I never shut up, it's just part of my charm😉

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

> 2. You are not to be trusted

That's twisted thinking on your part.

[–] ShogunofYonkers (74263) 3 years ago

OK Backstabber

You made the very short list tonight

Good evening

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

Hahaha, you might be right, except, I am not sure how decent I really am. Humans are complex.

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

On some occasions, I asked people to post PMs from me and I LIKED it. Its alright now though.

[–] ShogunofYonkers (74263) 3 years ago

You seem just fine to me buddy, but too much thinking on things can be the death of a fellow

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

Never mind!

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

That looks like a sign and sealed troll confession.

[–] TheMan18 (12721) 3 years ago

Troll is in the eye of the beholder.

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9078) 3 years ago

mmmmm, no, not really.