There is no such thing as Jesus
He's just one of many fictional characters in a book of fairy tales called the Bible.
shareStone the unbeliever !
MovieChat Forums > Jesus Christ Discussion > There is no such thing as Jesus
there was likely one or many. being a single or mix of jewish end of day preachers around that time. with some of what he said being reported, and a WHOLE lot of added nonsense.
Each gospel that gets written further from the events. gets more and more magical and crazy.
No, he was certainly real. Him being the son of God, walking on water etc are 100% fiction though.
shareThe thing is, Jesus is always portrayed as white. However, he's from the Middle East. So, he probably had an olive or dark tan complexion.
shareBeing from the Middle East, a Jew, he might have had olive or tan skin, but he was Caucasian. However, it's a moot point, since he's a fictional character.
shareThere is no certainty about his existence. Apart from the Bible, there is little or no contemporary corroboration.
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Most Biblical scholars agree that there was a historical Jesus. (They have their reasons. You can look them up. There's a wiki page, and many books and articles devoted to the topic. I'm not going to bother adumbrating any of them here.)
However, most Biblical scholars also agree that almost nothing of the historical Jesus has come down to us in the Bible, which is our only source of information about him.
So... it's a bit like saying Mickey Mouse is a historical figure because he's ultimately based on a real mouse. It doesn't really make a great deal of difference whether there was a historical Jesus or not.
Of COURSE most biblical scholars believe in a historical Jesus, most Biblical scholars are believers. Being a believer destroys your objectivity.
shareNot all Biblical scholars are believers, some are historians who specialize and there are atheist Biblical scholars, and most of them agree that Jesus was a real person.
shareI didn’t say they all were. I said most were.
shareTrue. If you think about it, there is nothing special about Jesus being a real person because there have been thousands, probably millions of cult leaders and most of them more successful than Jesus who only had 12 followers. John the Baptist had a bigger following than Jesus and there is still a cult in his name today and no one doubts he was real. It was Paul who made the Christian church, brought the religion to gentiles, and popularized Jesus' "teachings". Early Christians were all over the map with their beliefs and Paul gave them a direction.
shareOh interesting, what is the cult following for John the Baptist? Yeah Paul took it out of Judaism, he was a major dick though, the tone of his letters weren’t very Christ like. Then Constantine of course made it the Roman religion which cemented the religion into the the world and changed everything in Western civilization.
shareI had to google the name because it's been a time since I read about them, Mandaeans. I don't know much about them but I believe John is similar to them as Mohammed is to Muslims.
shareHow interesting! Thanks for sharing, it makes sense I suppose, baptism is a huge part of the faith.
Traditions like that are fascinating to me because of the symbolism of water and it’s significance to humans. In Genesis before God created anything it says that He moved over the face of the waters. That is something Bible believers tend to ignore, that before God’s creation, there was water.
I remember it coming up once in a Bible class and it was hand waved away -- God is mysterious and all that.
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'Destroys [one's] objectivity' is harsh. They're academics, following agreed upon multi-disciplinary academic methods. And most non-believing Biblical scholars agree with the methodology and the conclusions. There's a long history of scientific enquiry in the church.
'Tends to bias' I would accept. 'Destroys your objectivity' is too dismissive of the research. It's an ad hominem in the true sense of the term.
That said, I personally find some of Dr Richard Carrier's arguments compelling.
Carrier is interesting and I enjoy listening to his lectures. I'm still inclined to think that there was probably an actual historical Jesus (though not a supernatural Jesus). But Carrier definitely makes it interesting to consider the alternative.
shareSame here. He hasn't convinced me that the near-consensus among scholars is wrong on the historicity of Jesus, but he definitely has interesting, intelligent counterarguments. And he may be right.
As I said in my first post, I don't actually think it matters that much. We can be absolutely confident that the Jesus who lived (if he did live) is not the Jesus of the Bible, so how much weight does it carry anyway? But it's academically interesting all the same.
By it’s very nature ‘faith’ destroys credibility. It is by ‘faith’ you are saved and faith is belief without evidence.
shareBy it’s very nature ‘faith’ destroys credibility.
The credibility of academic research doesn't lie in the person doing the research, but in the methodology and the soundness of the conclusions drawn from it. If you want to find a fault with the research, you have to find a fault with the research's methodology or show that the conclusions drawn from the methods are false.That's what peer review is for.
It is never good enough to attack the person doing the research, whether for purported 'faith' or any other demerit.
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There is no proof for or against. This sort of thought is for wasting time to keep the mind off the fact that you're going to die.
shareHahahaha! All you wannabe atheists think you're too smart for God.
shareWhich god? There are several thousand in the world, and none is "better" than the others.
Lol!
shareWhat is funny about that to you?
shareIf I have to explain, you wouldn't undertstand.
shareYeah, sure buddy. You know he’s right and it hurts, I feel sorry for ya lil’ guy 🤗
shareHahaha! I feel REAL sorry for you. I'll b fine.
shareas usual you cant explain fuck all. you should talk to your imaginary friend tonight. pray for intelligence
shareBlah blah blah, loser.
shareyes thats what everyone hears when religious people talk. all assertions. no evidence
shareAs usual, you accomplish nothing. Delete your account.
shareaccomplish nothing? ive embarrassed Jesus boy. get on your knees for daddy. pray he makes you intelligent
shareHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sure, failure.
shareI didnt fail? you didnt prove fuck all about Jesus or sky daddy. you have the burden of proof. now me clown :) so provide evidence. ill wait
shareI don't have to prove anything. Believe what you want, failure.
P.S. You don't have to be intelligent to be saved, which is great news for you. He'll even save a dolt like you.
you do. you claimed "wanna be atheists think they are too smart for god"
you've made a positive claim. prove it clown! only failure is you.
lol saved? by superman? cause I have more evidence of him than sky daddy.
Good for you. Like I said, you accomplish nothing.
shareI did though. I exposed you talk out your ass. just make shit up and think we should listen to you.
ive exposed you cant prove fuck all. embarrassing
You're a joke. I'm not out to prove anything. Believe what you want, idiot. You accomplish nothing.
shareyes you proved you will believe anything. im not a joke. im logical and demand evidence. stay dumb, stay gullible. it suits you contards
shareHint: People who assert that they're not a joke, are usually a joke.
I eagerly await more pearls of wisdom from MC's resident joke and liar.
"Hint: People who assert that they're not a joke, are usually a joke."
thats not how logic works. no wonder you are a religitard.
if I call you a wife beater. and you say you arent. I dont then get to say "Hint: People who assert that they're not wife beaters, are usually wife beaters." like you did
this is like fucking grade 10 philosophy/logic 101.
you are literally dumber than a 17 year old child.
LOL you def got the tism
What the hell are you blathering about? You're just proving that you're a desperate, attention whore. You're nothing, you know nothing and you're a failure. Delete your account.
shareMany people claimed to be A messiah back then. Jesus is the only one who started a religion.
Only deranged Marxists claim the Bible(s) are "fairy tales". Most of the places and names in its books are backed by archaeological evidence.
Jesus is the only one who started a religion.
Actually Jesus didn't start a religion, he was a Jew and his religion was Judaism. He was just another in a long line of wannabe Jewish Messiahs who died for their religion, or because of it.
It was St Paul who invented Christianity. You could say that Jesus was the inspiration for Christianity I guess.
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So tell me who wrote the Sermon on the Mount and I'll follow him.
share"Matthew" ( whoever he was ) wrote down the Sermon on the Mount in the Gospel of Matthew. The question is did good old "Matthew" make it all up or was he using earlier sources or a combination of both ?
Who knows ? But either way he's dead Jim.
Doesn't especially matter, Bones. One can follow an ideal.
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