MovieChat Forums > Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Discussion > Has ANYONE in their lives EVER met a Mar...

Has ANYONE in their lives EVER met a Marxist? Because I haven't


Didn't Marxism disappear over 100 years ago. WTF is this crap the fascist right wing is putting out.

I've met a FEW labor party leaders. I've met many anarchists. I even met a couple Maoists upon a visit to a Revolution Books store and vehemently opposed their support of violence, but in all my years as an IR person I have never ever met a Marxist. WTF are they talking about?
There are MANY democratic socialists like AOC but she is not a "Marxist." Most of the entire WORLD is Democratic socialist. It means the voters have control over their government instead of special interest groups, PACs and corporate lobbyists having control over them.

Is this overcompensation crap from the right because they KNOW they are freedom hating fascists hell bent on turning our country into a police state and being controlled, and spied on from every which angle by their Patriot Acts, NSA and Homeland Insecurity Agencies, or are they just parroting the propaganda they hear on Fox news? Can't these lemmings think for themselves? There's the Greatful Dead but there are also the Greatfully Enslaved - that's the uneducated Right.

reply

The following are basic characteristics of Marxism.

Collective Ownership.
Collective Rights.
Revolution.
Wealth Redistribution.
Class Struggle.
Lumpenproletariat.
Alienation.
Historical Materialism.

She ticks every box, and more.
Yes she is a Marxist. In disguise like many others (BLM leadership), but she is.
You know, before you accuse the "fascist right wing" of spewing crap, how about you learn just SOMETHING about ANYTHING first instead of making a total fool out of yourself?
Nah, can't have that... right wingers are dummies, I heard that on CNN!


Edit: "Most of the entire WORLD is Democratic socialist. It means the voters have control over their government instead of special interest groups"
AHAHAHA ooohh boyo...

reply

1. Collective Ownership. LOL That's not Marxist. It's Capitalism by the very original definition.

Capitalism. In the English language, capitalism means one thing, but in American Newspeak, it means something else entirely.

In the Cambridge International Dictionary of English, Capitalism is defined as an economic, political and social system based on private ownership of property, business and industry, and directed towards making the greatest possible profits for successful ORGANISATIONS and people [ie. collective ownership].

In the Cambridge Dictionary of American English, the Newspeak version, Capitalism is defined as an economic system based on private ownership of property and business, with the goal of making the greatest possible profits for the owners.

That's feudalism. Not capitalism.

2. Revolution is a classic way of regaining freedom. See the year 1776.
3. Wealth Redistribution. - Republicans brought us the income tax.
4. Class Struggle. - no one covets everyone's money more than the rich.
The 1% Owns Almost As Much Wealth As The Middle Class https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2019/11/12/the-1-owns-almost-as-much-wealth-as-the-middle-class-will-the-rich-keep-getting-richer/
Fascism! *spoken in the tone of Moara Kelly when she says "Toe Pik!" to DB Sweeny.
5. Alienation. Gee so Republicans have alienated immigrants, Mexicans, other Latinos, Blacks, Asians, Gays and other LGBTQ the poor and the middle class. "toe pik!"
6. Historical revisionism - "toe pik!"

No none of this is Marxist. Again you've never met a Marxist in your life.

She has nothing to do with BLM, that's just another fabrication of the losing right.

"Nah, can't have that... right wingers are dummies, I heard that on CNN!"
Sorry, I don't watch TV, try again. That's probably why you're so brainwashed.

"AHAHAHA ooohh boyo..."

Sure you can write weird things all you want but you cannot argue with that fact. Watch the movie, "Who Do We Invade Next?" and get yourself an eyeopener. You might just want to move to one of those free countries.

reply

"1. Collective Ownership. LOL That's not Marxist. It's Capitalism by the very original definition."
Oh God you are dumb...
Collective ownership is THE key characteristic of socialism!

I'm out, I'm wasting my time. Enjoy your fantasy world.

reply

Yeah, after that ridiculous statement I didn't bother reading any more either.

reply


Same here. Word salad. Read the first counterpoint and quit.. Twisting the meaning of both capitalism and collective ownership. The dunce is strong with that one.

reply

Triumph is trolling, he’s definitely a Trump supporter, he literally said Biden was “god” and that BLM should kill cops until the cops stop shooting black people (even if it’s justifiable)

reply

No, he's just one of those college-educated hippies.

reply

yeah he is horrible troll, wondering if its doogie daddy again, types and talks about the same...

reply

That's a WICKED WICKED level of denial you are in or you just do not understand.

THE DICTIONARY OF ENGLISH ENGLISH SAYS THAT CAPITALISM IS defined as an economic, political and social system based on private ownership of property, business and industry, and directed towards making the greatest possible profits for successful ORGANISATIONS and people. That means a group of guys go into business together. They are the workers. They all directly reap the profits.

Many companies in the US operate this way. Insinkerator is one of them. John Ratzenberger the actor who played Cliff Claven in Cheers used to have a TV show called Made in America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_America_(TV_program) where he'd go about visiting the companies many that were collectively owned around America per the true definition of capitalism.

This is why corporations sometimes give out options and shares to their employees in order to give them some ownership share of the company. You kids are just too ignorant and uneducated to understand anything that happens in the real world.

reply

A company/an organization can be controlled/owned by one or more persons, the organization can employ nil or more persons. Society reaps the output of a business/an organization that provides goods/services in a capitalist system where resources are allocated through free trade/freedom of choice/private property rights/freedom of association etc.

reply

Yes, Society collectively. Very good. Give you a B.

reply

Yikes. I'd say get your money back on your diploma but I can tell you went to public school. I should get my taxes back on it instead.

reply

1. Just because the allocation of resources through free trade/freedom of choice/private property rights/freedom of association etc. results in the greatest possible profits for successful organizations and people, doesn't mean it's collective ownership, rather it's collective benefit.

an economic system based on private ownership of property and business, with the goal of making the greatest possible profits for the owners
Is a Marxist definition of capitalism!

2. Or revolution is a classic way of implementing a tyranny, or replacing a tyranny with another tyranny?

3. RINOs brought us the income tax?

4. The socialists/Marxists etc. covets everyone's money more than the rich!

The rich own a lot, because they own the means of production, i.e. the machines/tools etc. used to produce the goods/services. I.e. ideally the most qualified/competent etc. people get to control/own the means of production (of course that's not always the case when one has government intervention/distortions etc. in society/the economy).

5. Illegal immigrants/people who are in the country illegally etc., are alienated?

reply

Strawman Strawman strawman.

reply

Alienation (a broad, vague term. Alienation, in some form, played a big part in Trump's own campaigns)
Revolution (A broad, vague term. Revolution has existed in every revolution, as tautological as that may sound. Whether that revolution has been right-wing or left-wing, Fascist or Marxist, revolution is an idea sold to the masses which justifies direct action and violence and is espoused by all great demagogues)
Class struggle (A broad, vague term. Essentially, you're either a tradionitonal conservative or you're else you're talking about class struggle. "Draining the swamp" was a propaganda technique about the elitist Washington status-quo. It was a message which must have appealed mostly to lower-class and middle-class whites. It would not truly appeal to billionaires, because if they are already reaping massive profits from the supposed elite ruling class of the US then they would not truly want the swamp which has enabled them to be drained. Kind of common sense)
Collective rights (A broad, vague term. All populist messages claim to support "collective rights". If we all band together, then we can collectively work to create the just and fair world which has been robbed from us by the powerful few. The new world order will restore peace and harmony to the collective majority." It's a universal message. I don't know how else I can break this down for you)

You are basically describing every single revolutionary movement, in the entirety of history, with these descriptors. That's 1/2 of your list

The French Revolution, The American Revolution, the American Civil War, etc.

I would wager that every single great revolution throughout history, including even the Nazi coup in Germany, could be interpreted to include these criteria

I, personally, identify as a Marxist. I don't, in any way, see AOC as a champion of my cause or as a true long-term ally. She's a Washington politician. In time, she will sell her soul for either a campaign win or for long-term financial security. I find it really funny whenever I hear right-wingers talk about her as if she's the Boogeyman. She's a mainstream American politician. AKA, she is a distraction and a half-measure

reply

Alienate illegal immigrants, alienate people who are in the country illegally?

Forced "cooperation" (ref revolution)?

Billionaires are in business/ambitious etc, i.e. they'd be billionaires/rich regardless.

Supposed central planners (ref supposed elite ruling class of the US)?

Forced "cooperation" (ref collective rights)?

Two wrongs don't make a right! You wanna replace a wrong with a wrong? Wrongs were replaced by wrongs (ref revolutions)?

Mainstream boogeymen/-women (ref mainstream American politicians).

reply

No, you simpleton

I don't mean "illegal aliens" when I talk about "alienation" in Trump's campaign. Alienation is a feeling of not belonging to the dominant society of your time

Trump appealed to feelings of alienation common among certain sectors of disaffected middle-class and lower-class whites. Typical of populist demagogues

I can't believe you thought I was referring to immigration. I don't think I can have a grown up political discussion with you

reply

Yeah, I've met a lot of them. Growing up in a socialist country at the USSR border would make it impossible not to.

You have no idea what democratic socialism is and why it can be considered marxism, do you?

No, the world is NOT democratic socialist. At most is a third wave social democracy (look it up).

Democratic socialism still advocates for ... socialism, pure socialism (workers owning the means of productions, yadayada) which is ... a marxist concept. Check the dsa page for more information on this.

The third wave social democrats advocate for capitalism (NOT socialism) with strong welfare and social security/programs.

If these terms are hard for you to grasp (I know, americans) get some books.

BTW, ALL socialist countries have defined themselves as being ... democratic ... so saying "democratic socialism is different than the old socialism/marxism" is idiotic at best. I know, ignorance is strong with the american socialists.

reply

BTW, ALL socialist countries have defined themselves as being ... democratic ... so saying "democratic socialism is different than the old socialism/marxism" is idiotic at best. I know, ignorance is strong with the american socialists.


Like the People's Republic of China..

If you put a descriptor in your name it must be true. Take Antifa. Anti-Fascist? If their name accurately defined their purpose, they'd be Profa.

reply

A better example: "North Korea,[c] officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK)".

SO democratic ... democratic socialism ...

Have an idea: why none all these lovers of "democratic socialism" won't go to live in North Korea? It is a perfect example of what they want ... their heaven.

BTW: by definition socialism is NOT democratic and it's always authoritarian ... socialism will ALWAYS require the abolishment of individual rights and replace them with "the society" - and usually that is meant to be the leading class which will take all decisions under the guise of "democratic elections".
As Stalin may have stated: "I regard it as completely unimportant who in the party will vote and how, but it is extremely important who will count the votes and how." ...

reply

Nonsense. N. Korea is a dictatorship. China is a one party system with a president for life. No one votes. They are trapped into it. That's communism. Liberalism seeks to free people from both communism and fascism and the freeist form of government we know of that works the best is democratic socialism.

Just take a god damn trip to Germany, Finland, or Belgium someday, and just see for yourselves. I mean seriously get out of the basement. In Germany you get to drive as FAST as you want. In France and Spain the women get to parade around topless on the beaches, even in the middle of Paris they'll be lying out there. In Netherlands weed is legal. In Portugal all drugs are decriminalized and it is working to reduce addiction and crime. In Czech Republic LISTENERS get to choose which music the radio stations play, and they are GOOD. That's freedom fellas any way you look at it.

reply

Are you THAT stupid???

NK is calling itself democratic, and that was THE point: just having "democratic" in the name doesn't make it so. In every socialist countries there had been "elections" - but those where controlled by the party.

"Just take a god damn trip to Germany, Finland, or Belgium someday, and just see for yourselves. I mean seriously get out of the basement. In Germany you get to drive as FAST as you want. In France and Spain the women get to parade around topless on the beaches, even in the middle of Paris they'll be lying out there. In Netherlands weed is legal. In Portugal all drugs are decriminalized and it is working to reduce addiction and crime. In Czech Republic LISTENERS get to choose which music the radio stations play, and they are GOOD. That's freedom fellas any way you look at it"

NONE of those countries are socialist you moron, they are 100% capitalist.

As i said before: i lived in Europe, I lived in a socialist country and I lived in a social democracy (post socialism). And they are all (the one you listed) CAPITALIST you moron, NOT ONE IS SOCIALIST.

reply

Man you kids are so utterly brainwashed by garbage. How the hell is antifa fighting against the police state anything other than antifascist? What's wrong with your evil minds anyway?

reply



What "police state". Law and order? Those of us who believe in obeying the law find the police on our side. Those who don't believe in law and order see them as the problem.

Look, I'm fine either way. My wife and I both carry. If anarchy is your goal, bring it.

As far as Antifa, the fact they use textbook fascist tactics to advance their "cause" is hypocritical to everyone except hypocrites.

Also, I'm 63, but I like that you think I'm that young. You made my day.


reply

You're looking at one every time you go to the bathroom.

reply

If anything you loons are most like maoists. You love big government, you hate the environment. You think everyone should get paid the same no matter how much they work. (Hate to break it to you but Salaries and hourly wages are very much like what they had in the Soviet Union.) Americans used to get paid by the amount of work they did. By the amount of cattle they'd drive, by the amount of apples they picked, by the amount of hay they collected and sold.

Today corporations (The Lords) own the property you (the Serf) work on. They reap the profits. You don't. You get paid some. Management (the Vassals) get paid more. That's feudalism.

Just trying to get you nitwit NPCs to think for yourselves. Those gears will turn someday I swear to god.

reply

I've know quite a few self proclaimed marxists throughout my time in college, they all shared one common denominator - they didn't actually know what a marxist was. Pretty much the same as the idiots to day that loved to scream how Trump was a fascist. Just a bunch of idiots that think a word sound good or subversive and then throw it around with no real understanding of what it actually means. Pretty much a sad testament to our poor education system that doesn't teach such basic things.

reply