.... Seinfeld!
I created a thread on the Seinfeld boards with the evidence.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098904/board/flat/261191134
Scariest words in English: We’re from the federal government and we’re here to help. R. Reagan
YES! And I will tell you EXACTLY when I noticed this:
In the episode when former BF Dan gets engaged to that b*tch and Mary & Rhoda go to the engagement party.
The (hilarious) part when Mary & Rho flee the party then COME BACK IN THE HOUSE because a car is blocking hers is soooooooooo Seinfeld-y ! I laugh out loud EVERYTIME I see that one.,
"we called that the In The Den" episode . One of my faves that people never mention because they are too much with Chuckles Bites the Dust !
"In every dimension , there's another YOU!"
Influenced maybe. But MTM is one of my all-time favorite sitcoms, whereas I cannot STAND Seinfeld (except for Jerry's monologs), because I find the three main characters so unrelatable. All of them are petty and downright mean!
The characters on MTM are all different, so the less-likable ones (such as Phyllis) merely provide contrast, rather than dominating the show.
But most of the time those characters when they do jerky things get their comeuppance.
shareThe times I remember, they were being just plain obnoxious and/or mean, and even if it sometimes came back to bite them, I still don't enjoy watching people be mean to someone who's: just minding their own business / trying to be helpful / a complete stranger just walking down the street.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
I don't enjoy meanness as well when it comes to real life. You seem like a good person.
share I never really considered that the Seinfeld characters were mean. I saw them as unbelievably shallow and petty and quite immature for their ages!
They didn't strike me as intentionally mean. They were just too self absorbed by their own needs to notice other people and their needs. Interesting that there was an episode entitled "The Bubble Boy". All four of them lived in their OWN bubble.
I think the cast played their characters that way. I recall reading an interview with Julia Louis Dreyfus who was asked if Elaine should have children and she replied, "NO! She should have her tubes tied!
I think you're right -- they don't actually set out to be mean, they're simply too self-absorbed to realize that a) other people might be offended or even that b) other people matter. Sadly, I know a few real-life people who come pretty close to being like that (and also know of at least one other that I don't know personally).
I believe such people are termed anti-social (or sociopathic). They apparently can't help it, because they have no sense of empathy.
... and now that I think of it, that does make the MTM Show somewhat like Seinfeld, because three of the continuing characters (Ted, Phyllis, and Sue Ann) are very self-centered, albeit in a variety of ways. Mary is the nicest of the others, with Murray and Rhoda close behind. Lou is a bit prickly, but still a pretty decent guy. So it's roughly half and half, but because the nicer characters have more screen time, the show averages out much nicer than Seinfeld.
However I think you folks were mostly talking about the style of humor, and I can't really speak to that, having watched only a few Seinfeld episodes. (Every year or so, somebody would say how much better the show had gotten, and I'd watch another episode or two and conclude that it still wasn't my cuppa.)
I never thought of MTM as influencing Seinfeld. Mary Tyler Moore was always about something. And as Jerry Seinfeld put it so famously, his show was about nothing!
Also his edict for the show was, "no character growth, no hugging, no sentiment." I can't imagine Jerry and the others teary-eyed and sentimental and engaging in a group hug like they did in the MTM finale.
Thank you for that info! I do recall the "about nothing" idea, but wasn't aware of the rest.
I enjoy shows that have at least one character I can relate to (which Seinfeld did not, with the possible exception of Kramer), and that are about something. (With the latter being one thing I valued about Star Trek, both the original series and Next Gen -- Gene Roddenberry insisted that each episode be about something, i.e., make a point.)