Um, this is a children's story. There's nothing in the story to indicate that Grandpa Joe was suddenly able to get out of bed because he'd only been pretending all that time. It was more like--a miracle. (Even more so in the book where he literally jumped out of bed and immediately started dancing around, with no tentative tottering about at the beginning). Of course that's hopelessly unrealistic, but it's a children's story.
Tobacco was probably very, very cheap and it could have been like his one indulgence, or his one memory of happier, wealthier times. Also, maybe he'd even offered to give it up before, and his family wouldn't let him. Do you remember the way both Charlie and his mother respond? "Dad, it's only one pipe a day." "Grandpa, that was for your tobacco!"
I'm not even going to address what you said about the other set of grandparents, because you clearly pulled that from nowhere.
Yes, it was unwise of him to encourage Charlie to break the rules and drink the fizzy lifting drink, but it's not too unnatural for a man who hasn't been out of bed for years to want to do and experience as much as he can.
He tiraded (that probably wasn't a word, but you know what I mean) at Willy Wonka because he cared about Charlie so much. "How can you do this to a little boy, build up his hopes, and then smash all of his dreams to pieces!?" And the barely legible writing that supposedly said that Charlie would forfeit "all rights, privileges, etc." if he broke the rules hardly made it fair to spring that on him at the very end.
Okay, so he said, "and me?" when Willy Wonka started talking about the chocolate factory. Is that so bad? He'd always been a part of his grandson's life.
If you pay attention to the story, you can see multiple ways in which he shows that he cares deeply for Charlie. One of his first lines (if not the first) is "he [that is, Charlie] works too hard for a little boy! He should be able to play." (Possibly a paraphrase)
You can tell that he has a special relationship with Charlie just from the way Charlie says "Grandpa Joe!" with a little flourish when he's kissing each of his grandparents. None of the other interacted with Charlie that much.
He didn't know until Charlie actually got the ticket that anyone could go with him to tour the factory. He encouraged Charlie in his dream to give Charlie something to hope for. When Charlie's grandmother says, "a lot of rubbish, the whole thing," Grandpa Joe contends "Not to Charlie, it wasn't! What does he have to hope for now?" None of the others thought of that.
He arranged to buy Charlie an extra chocolate bar, even though he was bed-ridden, giving up his tobacco in the process, even though nobody begrudged him that.
Grandpa Joe didn't get out of bed until Charlie said, "I wish you could go." He wanted to be there for his grandson.
He was the one who told Charlie stories about Wonka. Nobody else told Charlie stories, or gave him something to dream about.
Near the end, when he says "If Slugworth wants an everlasting gobstopper, he'll get one!" also shows how much he cared about Charlie. He wants to hurt the person (Wonka) who hurt Charlie. That doesn't make it right, but it's not pure self-centeredness on Grandpa Joe's part.
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wears-alan
9 years ago
Hahaha!
You nearly convinced me. Who are you, his number one fan?
He was a lazy no good selfish bastard. He ran that household like Don Corleone and the other old scrotes were too scared to speak up in case they found themselves swimming with the fishes. You don't want to believe that, fine. But don't come here with your fantasies of what a good egg this Fvc<er was.
It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!
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browntable759
9 years ago
Honestly, I'd never given that much thought to the character of Grandpa Joe before this. I've just seen the movie many, many times (and read the book), and I've been taught not to take things out of context. It's a children's story. It was made in 1971. In those days at least, people didn't make children's stories with super-subtle villains.
It's based on a book by Roald Dahl. Roald Dahl's villains were blatantly nasty characters that the kids in the stories hated and feared (or despised, if they were stupid). Kids didn't love those people.
The movie is a musical. Before Les Mis, musicals were inherently light-hearted, even though the subject matter was often extremely serious. Neither the plots nor the characterizations even hold up if you divorce them from the context of a musical. You have to take them at face value and employ a willing suspension of disbelief to enjoy the story at all.
Anyway, you didn't respond to any of my points; you just carried on generalizing. Keep bad-mouthing Grandpa Joe if you want--it's a free country--but since I have the quotes and the context, whereas you have generalizations and assumptions, who's indulging in the fantasies?
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wears-alan
9 years ago
I'm replying on my iPhone but promise to address each of your points when I return from holiday. In the meantime feel free to peruse the many, well thought out posts, by many posters about this evil man
It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!
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jsn_hylnd
8 years ago
One thing that made me cringe was when Grandpa Joe went on about how hard Charlie works and didn't acknowledge the woman in any way. He was even a dick to her a little afterwards.
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wears-alan
9 years ago
He admitted he had no right buying tobacco while his family were reduced to living off what appears to be sock soup. Charlie and his mother were just being polite when they said what they did.
I clearly pulled what I said about the others the same way you pulled the old 'tobacco was probably cheap' remark..... Probably. Good word eh?
Yes it was unwise. Using the line that he 'probably' wanted to experience everything doesn't excuse it either.
He let rip at Wonka because his hoped for life of opulence appeared to be going down the pan.
Yes it is so bad that he said 'and me'. He was clearly out for himself.
Yes he does say that he works too hard for a little boy. Whose fault is that? If that lazy bastard (and his harem) didn't spend all day in bed, they could have contributed to the household instead of being a burden on it.
Special relationship.... You mean he manipulated him.
Once he did know Charlie could take someone with him he should have insisted that Charlie take his mother seeing as she worked her fingers to the bone looking after everyone.
He arranged........yeah he arranged, that's what all the Dons do.
He got out of bed because something was in it for him.
So what if he did tell Charlie stories. How else could he manipulate him? He filled his head full of dreams so that Charlie wouldn't question him. In the end Charlie realises that following him only made things worse (i.e) fizzy lifting drinks and selling the EG, so he goes against him and wins the factory.
As I said above, Charlie makes a stand against him and if he hadn't then they were screwed. Remember, the whole Slugworth angle was BS. Furthermore, Grandpa Joe didn't say that because he cared bout Charlie. He did it because he wanted the cash one way or another. Pure selfishness on Joes part, supplemented with ' .....and me'?
It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!
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browntable759
9 years ago
First of all, you're still just guessing, too. How do you know Charlie and his mother and his mother were just being polite? And what's this about Grandpa Joe wanting opulence? He didn't know until the very end that anyone was going to get the factory. All he knew about was the life-time supply of chocolate and the tour. What about the fact that this is a children's story made long before the era of making even kids movies super-serious stories with subtle themes? You still have to read into it to see manipulation there. And that's not even how manipulation works. Manipulation would be occurring if Charlie felt bad if he ever did anything his grandpa didn't want him to. He had no problem taking the moral high ground and refusing to sell the gobsstopper to Slugworth, with his grandpa right there. That's a pretty sure sign that Charlie was not someone who had been manipulated, because there's no way a boy that age would have the courage to do that on his own on the spur of the moment.
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wears-alan
9 years ago
How do you know they weren't ?
When a loaf of bread looks like a banquet then a life times supply of chocolate would be opulence.
Hansel and Gretal is a children's story. Still a dark tale though. As for reading in to it to see manipulation, well that's how subtlety works. Manipulation does work as you say, and Grandpa Joe plays the old sympathy card when he suggests he shouldn't be buying tobacco. It immediately instils feelings of guilt from Charlie and his mother for bemoaning their situation. Hence them saying to him it's alright for him to have the tobacco. Supreme lesson in manipulation right there.
Charlie had an epiphany at the end. The light finally went on in that head of his. He realised that following his Grandpa Joe had brought nothing but misery, so for once in his life he made the decision to do the right thing and hand the EG back to Wonka. As it happened that's exactly what Wonka had seen buried inside Charlie. A good kid who had been led down the wrong path by a Fagin like Grandpa.
I feared for those oompahs once Wonka said Joe could also come and live there. But who knows, maybe Joe met with an 'accident' followed by a clever little song by the oompahs explaining how it was deserved.
It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!
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browntable759
9 years ago
You know what? It really isn't that important. I still think you're reading into it and we could go back and forth about it forever, but it's probably not worth it. I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change mine. Have a great day, and a happy life.
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