those higher up guys know he's only pretending. plus, once he knew he was going to be lobotomized, he would have protested and confessed
would they transfer him to prison for attacking Nurse Ratched instead?
It's been a while since I've seen this movie, but doesn't he try to kill Ratched? This was after he admitted faking mental illness to avoid a rape charge. He was an AWFUL guy.
share2 things. First off all, he tried to kill her her after she intentionally caused Billy to commit suicide. Secondly, he didn't rape the teenage girl. It was consensual. However because he was a grown man and she was a minor, that's why he went to jail. It's called Statutory rape because even if consensual, a grown man can't have sex with a minor and should know better. Also, if you don't think Nurse Ratchett is bad then you really missed a lot of things.
In the first group meeting shown in the movie, she allows everyone to yell at the top of their lungs at one another. And she smiles while everyone is doing so. That didn't help anybody. That scene proves she isn't out to help people. There's also the fact that Harding's problems with his wife shouldn't even be talked about in the group session. And she knows this. She wants to break the men down because she is a jerk who doesn't believe anyone can really be helped. That's really the point of the movie and the book. That mental health at that time in the early 1960s didn't work and was causing more harm than good.
She intentionally made Billy kill himself, LOL stop it. This is a RIDICULOUS leap in logic. She wanted to shame and humiliate him back into submission. She wanted to regain power. There's nothing indicating she wanted him to die, LOL how absurd. And McMurphy outright tried to murder her.
You: McMurphy didn't rape the girl, he committed statutory rape! *Puffs out chest*
Me: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/16/b7/24/16b7245d1fa155fb3c20bcaaf022213c.gif
I never said A THING about Ratched being a good person, I said McMurphy was a bad one.
Ratched did things that were just as bad as killing them. She was keeping them like a mean-spirited child keeping flies around by tearing their wings off. It was pure sadism.
If rape is forcing someone into sex and statutory rape is "default" because the girl is too young and naive, don't you think there might be some comparison between murder and somebody who breaks down a person's soul until they commit suicide?
The real difference between McMurphy and Ratched is that both were nasty people, but McMurphy was learning, over the course of the story, to become a better one. Ratched was an evil person who was at least no better by the end of the film if not worse, and to top it off was smugly self-righteous in her actions.
The OP was asking about why McMurphy was lobotomized and the answer was because Ratched couldn't control him and she'd rather he was a vegetable she could gloat over than either a free man or somebody in her "care" who she couldn't manipulate and crush.
A lobotomy was not the answer here. The answer was a trial for attempted murder or aggravated assault or something like that, but that would let a fly out of the web, wouldn't it?
"but McMurphy was learning, over the course of the story, to become a better one."
Become a better person?! You just said he should go to trial for attempted murder, LOL.
This of course was after faking mental illness to AVOID A RAPE CHARGE, breaking a bunch of psych patients out of a mental hospital because he wanted to go on a field trip, and then doing the same thing again when he brought the alcohol and liquor INTO the hospital; which is actually what led to Billy's death. If McMurphy doesn't do this, Billy is alive. He is no hero and is no better than Ratched.
You seem to ignore my point that it wasn't rape! It was simply having sex witha minor and it was consential. Statutory rape refers to sex with an underage person. Not to actual rape that can get you a sentence of 30 to 50 years for.
shareStatutory RAPE isn't rape? He had sex with a teenager, you fucking freak.
shareI wasn't saying I agree with it, but from a legal standpoint it isn't the same thing. If it's consential, it isn't rape. Also Nurse Ratchet was evil and didn't help any of the characters. It should be obvious. The first group scene makes this obvious.
shareThe actions taken by the staff should have been to have him charged. That does not mean that McMurphy wasn't justified in his actions. Ratched was a sadistic person who was plucking apart the souls of the people entrusted to her care. We are talking sociopathic behaviour that got somebody killed. If you don't think McMurphy was morally justified in throttling Ratched, that's fine, but I think it would be reasonable to disagree with that.
Focus, though, on some critical points:
1) I wasn't saying he was moral for attacking Ratched. I wasn't saying anything about the morality of that action, I was saying that his actions to the observations of the staff should have resulted in a charge, not a lobotomy.
2) "Better" does not mean "perfect" or even "good". He was going from a selfish person who would take what he wanted, lie to get out of it, and sneer at everybody around him; and was turning into a person who would try to help other people and put his own safety on the line for friends and for the defenseless. Ratched's abuse of power for selfish sadism is the opposite of this.
If McMurphy didn't do what he did, everybody in that psyche ward is ground down into wormfood by Ratched. Ratched was evil and McMurphy pushing back was good. Should he have actually throttled her? I don't know, maybe that was good, maybe it was foolish, but take a look at Ratched's reaction to Billy's death; she likes grinding these people into dust for her amusement and power trips.
He was justified in trying to kill someone now, was he?
share"If you don't think McMurphy was morally justified in throttling Ratched, that's fine, but I think it would be reasonable to disagree with that."
"Should he have actually throttled her? I don't know, maybe that was good, maybe it was foolish..."
Payback for him attacking Ratched. She was an evil, evil woman who wanted complete control and would make sure she got it, one way or the other. My heart ached so much for him at the end, as well as for the others who were stuck there under her authority.
shareIt's how you control dissidents if you're the top dog.
Locking them up doesn't cut it. You either kill them or lobotomize them.