MovieChat Forums > Star Wars (1977) Discussion > not his father....

not his father....

posted 4 years ago by [deleted]
27 replies | jump to latest

rewatching this original film, I swear there is NOTHING in this original cut, that makes obiwan out to be hiding the fact that darth is lukes dad. Nothing. You can spin it all you want, the way the dialog is, obi is talking about a whole other being, NOT his dad..

even if trying to protect Luke from this (fake) truth.
It all just seemed like such a silly twist thrown in for the sake of controversy. You know, to make more money.

I thought that at the time when I saw it in the theater, still feel that way.

Change my mind.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I agree with you, from what I've read, there was never a fully fleshed-out plan for the OT story as ANH's success was never anticipated.

[–] furiousstyles (4364) 4 years ago

He wasn’t at that point , only when writing Empire was the story changed

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

k, I feel better about being right. :)

[–] JimmyFishCakes (451) 4 years ago

You can clearly see Liea has daddy issues in A New Hope

[–] arflexit (2376) 4 years ago

While it is true that it was not planned in 'Star Wars' 1977 that Vader was going to be his father, in Empire they introduced it and made it work and feel like it fit perfectly. It was very good writing. Even Luke's reaction of 'Ben, why didn't you tell me' suggested perfectly that Luke knew it was a lie.

Only in ROTJ did the explanation start to feel a bit 'meh'. The "certain point of view" nonsense. He could have just said he was not ready to tell Luke at that point and felt it might start Luke on the path to joining his father instead of resisting him. He could have just said it was a necessary lie; which Yoda kind of already suggested before dying so Obi-wan's B.S. really felt off.

[–] janelsenor (2042) 4 years ago

You are right. Lucas came up with it when re-writing ESB. In the first draft of ESB, Luke's father and Vader were still separate people.

[–] Otter (24464) 4 years ago

I agree, but I also think that changing Vader from the villain to the villain/father was a huge improvement in the story.

It made a simple good-guys-bad-guys adventure story complex, and emotionally gripping.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

If Obi Wan wanted to hide it from him, why would he say anything to indicate to Luke that he was hiding something?

He probably did decide to make that part of the story later, but so what? I see no reason for Obi Wan to hint at the truth when he wants to hide it.

[–] kwestmo (4287) 4 years ago

If Vader was Luke's father, then Ben would not have said that Vader "hunted down and murdered your father" (or something like that with the word murdered). He would have used vague terminology like "destroyed your father". Tha't basic writing technique.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Ben didn't want Luke to know. That's basic lying technique.

[–] kwestmo (4287) 4 years ago

I explained above the type of lie a writer would have written particularly when the lie is related to the plot.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I truly wish the dialog in the first movie WAS vague enough that it really worked out for the father part in the next, but it wasn't, so the big reveal just felt silly. I was a kid, in the theater at the time for it -- yes great idea overall, but poorly done.
What's next.... Leia is his SISTER or COUSIN or TWIN???? Pfffff :D

[–] TexasJack (12515) 4 years ago

Everyone now acknowledges that it was a change. But if you're looking for something in ANH to hang your hat on, there are two moments that resonate with the "Vader is Luke's father" plot point.

First,

Aunt Beru: Luke's just not a farmer, Owen. He has too much of his father in him.

Uncle Owen: That's what I'm afraid of.

Owen isn't smiling or being light-hearted in any way, so it works as a bit of foreshadowing.

Second, Obi-Wan's demeanor and having to brace himself before telling Luke that Vader betrayed and murdered his father. You can read it as just being uncomfortable with having to tell Luke about his father's death, but you can equally read it as being uncomfortable with lying to him.

[–] kwestmo (4287) 4 years ago

If the actors saying those line knew Vader was the father that would be fair, but they didn't. I realize you are try to help the OP rationalize

[–] arflexit (2376) 4 years ago

I think you can go back and see that the writing strength of ESB make it so that you can go back into a new hope and see that there is enough there to 'satisfy' the twist. But that is based on accepting that Obi-wan straight up lied. ROTJ muddies that up with the 'certain point of view' nonsense. He should have just said, 'I was not ready to tell you so I lied. I felt it was a necessary lie.'

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Good point. I guess Obi Wan had a hard time admitting he straight up lined.

[–] arflexit (2376) 4 years ago

Yeah but it shouldn't matter when he is a force ghost anymore and after Luke knows the truth. But this is a result of some of the weaker writing of ROTJ. My take is ANH and ESB are basically perfect when self contained between each other; and that is supported by the scene at the end of ESB when Luke keeps saying "Ben, why didn't you tell me?" This question signifies that Luke knows Obi-wan lied and it completes the 'arc' from ANH when Luke asked the question in the first place.

[–] JohnMcCock (136) 4 years ago

Hey, moron, the fact that Vader was Luke's father WASN'T PLANNED at that point. Grrrrrrr..

[–] kwestmo (4287) 4 years ago

If you meant to respond to me, you should watch who you are calling a moron. If you read and understood my three posts on this thread, I said Lucas made up the father/son thing after the Star Wars (renamed A New Hope).

I will give you the benefit if a doubt and assume you meant to respond to the OP, otherwise...

[–] JohnMcCock (136) 4 years ago

Yes, JohnMcCock was talking to the OP. Sorry for the confusion.

OP just doesn't seem like he wants to understand and put a lot of efforts to explain how it doesn't fit with the continuity . However, it is nothing more complicated than: it wasn't planned, so it wasn't thought throughout.

[–] kwestmo (4287) 4 years ago

agreed, thanks fir the response

[–] Volley (3387) 4 years ago

Sometimes I imagine a saga where Luke's father was Anakin Skywalker--the best starfighter pilot in the galaxy, but that Darth Vader, a pupil of Obi-Wan's, actually betrayed and murdered Anakin and what Obi-Wan said in STAR WARS was truthful.

[–] arflexit (2376) 4 years ago

I don't think it would be a 'saga' without it though.

[–] Volley (3387) 4 years ago

Maybe not, but then again it could be about Luke's revenge against Darth Vader for killing his father. Also having Leia as Darth Vader's daughter would be cool, but not Luke's sister would make for an interesting subplot, and that kiss in Empire wouldn't be as gross, lol.

[–] arflexit (2376) 4 years ago

I do not think revenge is a good motivation for Luke, that would change the dynamic and heroic nature of his character. How ever I do agree that it would interesting for Vader to be only Leia's father; that would be interesting but maybe a little too complex for Star Wars.

[–] TheAdlerian (2092) 4 years ago

I don't think so.

I saw the film when it came out and I was ten years old.

I have always been an avid reader and my friends back then were very into the movie and story. Back then, my buddy Peter brought a Star Wars magazine in and there was an article where Lucas was saying the movie was in fact the fourth because the studio wanted that section of the story told. He noted that Darth was fighting someone and fell into lava, etc and it seemed just like the prequels.

At the time, I was a skeptical kid and thought it weird we were seeing the story halfway in. I didn't believe that prequels would ever be made.

My point is that I believe he had the story fairly planned out.