If you consider the bad blood between band members, in particular Roger and Richard, and the claims that the last three albums sound more like Waters and Gilmour solo albums, should "The Wall" have been Pink Floyd's last record?
shareNo.
shareNo way, I liked Final Cut, Momentary Lapse and even a couple of songs off Division Bell. Although, IMHO, Division Bell was probably the weakest album since Obscured by Clouds.
shareNope. Loved them all after the wall. Saw Pink Floyd in the mid 90's (minus roger) with division bell and loved it. Love all the albums with and without roger.
shareExcept that Obscured by Clouds was in no way a weak album.
shareNo way, the Final Cut is their best album (with the possible exception of the mono mix of Piper At the Gates of Dawn) and lyrically is IMO Water's finest hour. As for it sounding like a Waters solo record, well the same can be said about the Wall especially considering if Glimour and Mason had preferred The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking then the Wall really would have been a solo Waters project.
Momentary Lapse of Reason is unquestionably their worst album. Division Bell has it's moments but is no masterpiece.
"Who's driving this plane? Stan Butler?"
You seriously call the Final Cut their best album? That one is probably the most universally agreed upon as their absolute worst album. That's one thing fans of the Barrett era, Waters era and Gilmour era tend to agree on. I've got it (got all of theirs), and for me, I'd rank that one easily the worst album in their catalog.
shareArgument from authority, a fallacy.
So what if it is "probably the most universally agreed upon as their absolute worst album"? I've long been under the impression that Atom Heart Mother and the awful Momentary Lapse of Reason where a lot less loved than the Final Cut but what does it matter as all such opinions are subjective rather than universal? And for what it's worth the 2012 Uncut Magazine Pink Floyd special rated it 4.5/5, the only other of the 12 Floyd studio LPs to be rated so high was Dark Side of the Moon...
The Final Cut engages me emotionally and intellectually more than any other LP in their catalogue, with the possible exceptions of Animals.
Please note that when I refer to the Final Cut I am referring to the 12 track 1983 edition, not the 13 track version from a few years back. They didn't need to add the Day the Tigers Broke Free single as it is and always will be a song that makes more sense in the context of the Wall and had already been rereleased on CD twice (as a b side of Roger Waters The Tide Is Turning (Live) single and the much more widely heard Echoes compilation) If EMI wanted to add anything they should have added after a minute or so's silence the single mix of Not Now John and the full length Hero's Return...
"Who's driving this plane? Stan Butler?"
A bit amusing to see you make the crack about the whole "universally agreed upon" comment I made.....and then go on to quote a magazine's rating of the album lol. I'm not saying it's a horrible album. Didn't even say it was their worst. But to rank it above The Wall, Wish You Were Here, Dark Side, Meddle, Animals etc? Not a chance in hell. Hell even the band members (Waters included) have said that was far from their best effort. It's one of your favorites, which is cool. Enjoy it. But don't play it up like it's in the same category as their actual classic albums. I thoroughly enjoy Momentary Lapse of Reason to this day, but I'm not running around claiming it's the best they've done.
shareNo, the discussion I mention is an example of how the Final Cut is not universally disliked so there was no inherent contradiction.
Waters' opinion is that he likes much of the material but is on reflection unhappy with the production (specifically the drums) which he feels dates it.
"Who's driving this plane, Stan Butler?"
Which means Waters still has problems with the album. You can bet he's not making similar comments about the far superior previous albums...
shareAnd?
"Who's driving this plane, Stan Butler?"
My god your dense. NO ONE in the band considers this album a great album. NONE of them. Hell most fans (and publications....and band members) consider this a Waters solo album. And here you are playing it up like it's the best thing they ever did. You think so and that's great. NO ONE agrees with you. So enjoy the cd. No one is stopping you. But babble on about it being the best thing they ever did, prepare to get knocked for it.
shareYou're the one making a big deal out of this. It's my favourite PF album. So *beep* ing what? No one agrees with me? Ignoring the fact that such a sweeping comment will be untrue, I again ask so *beep* ing what? The point I was making is that all opinions are subjective.
"Who's driving this plane, Stan Butler?"
I personally love The Final Cut. I don't care what anyone else thinks. I think it is a fantastic album.
shareIt's me and you against the world bredlau3, me and you...
Who's driving this plane? Stan Butler?
I've always loved it. I'll take on the whole world.
side note...I hate anything past that album...so.....
I don't hate The Final Cut.. because I simply don't hate anything coming from the Floyds.
This being said, I think it is their weakest album with A Momentary Lapse of Reason.
Played "Atom Heart Mother" this afternoon and it is indeed dreadful, and confirmed that I only keep it so I can have the complete run of PF LPs on the shelf.
"Who's driving this plane, Stan Butler?"
No way is Final Cut their best album. Not by a longshot.
Top 5:
1. Meddle
2. Animals
3. Piper
4. Dark Side
5. The Wall
No...and that is a stupid question. It happened you don't" what if" everything in life just go with the flow and move forward its later than you think.
shareNo. But it probably would have been OK if Waters had left before they recorded the Final Cut. I think a Gilmour/Mason/Wright album in the early 80's probably would have been better.
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Death is the road to awe.
No. I love The Final Cut (add me to the list of people who do) and The Division Bell.
shareYes, Roger should have just broken off and made it on his own. It's obviously 95% Roger and that's being generous to the other members. I'm reading a Pink Floyd bio at the moment (Pigs might Fly) and Roger pretty much takes over the band after Syd's exit and his control freak, ego driven ways just got progressively worse to eventually culminate in The Final Cut. Don't get me wrong, I love Roger's stuff and in his defence the other band members pretty much let him take control as he was the overarching creative force and great at coming up with the concepts for each album.
Back in the earlier days of Roger, Dave and Richard "collaborating" (meaning Dave and Richard actually spoke up every now and then and added their talent to the mix) some of the greatest rock music of all time was produced. Dark Side of the Moon remains, for me, the greatest album of all time, with Wish You Were Here and Meddle (largely due to Echoes) close seconds. Nick Mason was the diplomat and along for the ride. He pretty much agrees and is quoted as saying "I was waiting for the drum police to arrive and say 'OK Mason, come along quietly'"
Animals was the first real sign that Roger was overly dominating the song writing, The Wall confirms this and The Final Cut is the nail in the coffin for any further collaboration.
Sadly, I believe Pink Floyd without Roger is lack lustre and visa versa.
I think when Roger dominated the songwriting but still let his bandmates have some input was when the band was at its best. Animals and The Wall are their two best imo. I don't think Roger will ever admit it but he was at his best when David would push him. I don't think Dogs would've turned out the way it did without David for example. Roger and David needed eachother. A Momentary Lapse of Reason and Radio KAOS are not exactly up to either of their standards. Amused to Death and The Division Bell are both amazing though. So there are exceptions.
share