PROPOGANDA


I saw half of this movie last night and yes it was bad, but i watched it for what it was (before i went to bed after an hour as that seemed the more attractive option) and i thought... what a load of propoganda bulls***. Honestly! Who do they think they are? The whole movie smacked of American hypocrisy. I say this now as its 2008, although back then it probably seemed quite plausible.

However, i notice they dont really make movies like this anymore. Would any producer get away with a script that focused on Middle eastern baddies that were thwarted by American "goodies"?

Then again, nothing suprises me these days.

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"what a load of propoganda bulls***."

I know. Personally, I didn't care. It was lightyears ahead of the other big propaganda hit of the decade, Red Dawn.

"Who do they think they are?"

I would speculate that they were Americans, writing for an American audience in the middle of the Reagan-era resurgence, and making a film with the full cooperation of the Israeli Defense Force.

"Would any producer get away with a script that focused on Middle eastern baddies that were thwarted by American "goodies"?"

The producers of "Iron Man" and "The Kingdom" obviously thought so. They were right. In the current atmosphere though these producers were more careful and not as happily jingoistic in their depiction of the Middle-Eastern baddies, resulting in an overall better film.


"I ought to tell you something."
"Don't get sentimental now, Dad, save it for when we get out of here."
"The floor's on fire."

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Younger folks don't know how to react when a movie portrays the United States as the good guys, because Hollywood hasn't made that kind of movie in a long time. Even Black Hawk Down, the closest thing to an evenhanded portrayal of modern warfare made in the past 20 years, cannot be considered "pro-American".

I don't expect every movie to be Rambo, but it's just ridiculous that there hasn't been a single film yet, that shows the hundreds of people that jumped from the World Trade Center buildings to their deaths, crashing to the cement like sandbags.

United 93 was an important film, but the studio released it like a fart in church.



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Again, "Iron Man" and "The Kingdom" both had Americans as the good guys fighting Taliban and al-Qaeda enemies. There were shades of grey in "The Kingdom", but it was still pretty clear who the good guys were meant to be, and that part added depth to the movie rather than detracted from it IMO.

Oh, and since you brought up Rambo, you know there was a fourth one that just came out, right?


"I ought to tell you something."
"Don't get sentimental now, Dad, save it for when we get out of here."
"The floor's on fire."

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Most. Retarded. Post. Ever.

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I spose the saturday morning cartoons in Iran in which the children strap bombs on themselves and jump off cliffs to blow up UN convoys is not just as propagandaish. Or "stupid" pro iranian. Before you go off the deep end like most liberals do, with how "evil" america is.. please do yourself and all of us a favor and research the history and movies and books of all the other countries in the world and see if they dont have things just as or more heinious than the US.

Gawd, no perspective at all...

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Could you provide a link to said cartoons or describe what you saw and in what context you saw it?

I don't find it implausible that these cartoons exist, but I've also found that a lot of Americans tend to make blanket assuptions about life in the Middle-East which, upon closer examination, turn out to be questionable or false. Like, "women can't vote in Iran" (they can vote, drive, work and run for office) or "Christianity is illegal in the Arab world" (almost never true, though it is in Saudi Arabia; Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Egypt especially have long histories of thriving Christian communities). Hence my request for details.


"Sorry. I meant drop dead, comrade."

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[deleted]


United 93 was an important film, but the studio released it like a fart in church.


United 93 was a fart in a church, as well as being jingoistic war-inducing *beep* to begin with. But, I guess patriotic (idiotic) dittoheads like yourself will give it sanction, although you won't get off of your ass and join the army to go to Iraq/Afghanistan like it wants you to.

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What does any of this have to do with the OP? Did you just really feel the need to shout out what some of your favorite movies are?

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IT'S ALL CLINTON'S FAULT! (sarcasm)

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[deleted]

Everything is propaganda you idiot. Propaganda means to carry forth and propogate an idea. That pop up add you just closed? Propangada. That Gap add in your newspaper? Propaganda. Obama saying yes we can and Mccain saying Country First? Propaganda.

http://www.last.fm/user/399796kms/

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The problem with these anti-American posts is that they get these ignorant ideas from the uneducated in Hollywood and the leftist teachers that dominate the "education" system teaching revisionist history. Just like a 5 year old believing what he reads in the comic books is reality. You have to try and understand the mind set as difficult as that may be.

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teaching revisionist history

I know what you mean. My sister home-schooled her son and refused to get him the typical history books that sugar-coated everything. He should learn that we never tried to befriend the Indians, but tried to kill them, often maliciously, from our very first encounter. History is written by the victors and only now are the social scientists revealing what really happened; the white people weren't disposing of "savages" but killing people worthy of respect.

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It was the jingoist eighties!

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[deleted]

[deleted]

To the OP, sounds like typical European elitism. Funny how you liberal fools run to the evil US for support when one of your own countries is attacked. Let's state this clearly: The UN would be a joke if the US was not a member. Look at every single major hot spot in the last hundred years. We're always send more troops, we always send more relief supplies, we always are the ones who have to go in and get bloodied first, while your guys are still sipping tea on the boat and waiting for some Lord or Minister to hemhaw over the issue and try to talk to the scumbags. Good luck getting that kind of involvement from your peacenik buddy Obama. The world is a nasty place. You don't survive by discussing endlessly, crying and moaning about how hard things are. The difference between Americans and a majority of our "allies" is that Americans had to learn the hard way to pick ourselves up by our bootstraps and hit back. If it weren't for the "evil" US, you'd be speaking German right now, or vaporized by a russian missile. Get over yourself.

This movie is corny, inaccurate, and far-fetched. But I love that good old AMERICAN SPIRIT.



I guess the meek can inherit the Earth now. It looks like the stupid aren't doing anything with it.

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[deleted]

Haha liberals are so funny. Outraged about Iron Eagle! Who do they think they are! What hypocrites! Would any producer get away with that now!

Just wondering if you ever get outraged when middle eastern sadists kill Americans. That movie was released just a couple years after a suicide bomb in Beirut killed 241 American servicemen and six years after Iranians kept 100+ Americans hostage for 444 days. So yes, Americans were happy to go to the movies and see the other guy get blown up for a change. After 9/11 and Daniel Pearl and the latest Hamas attacks I'd be happy to see a similar movie today.

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I think its hilarious how somebody would be dumb enough to call this movie propoganda when the enemy country in this movie doesn't even exist. The country is fictional and its name is never even mentioned except that its somewhere in the Middle East. So stop starting stupid threads like this and pull out a dictionary and look up the word "Propoganda".

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[deleted]

I hope you feel just as good if somebody released a movie depicting American troops as beer-swilling, illiterate, raping thugs on a rampage. What would you do then, moron?

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Ever see Apocalypse Now? We don't need another country's help, we have enough scumbag liberals in Hollywood that already try to make our troops look bad.

It was portrayed as being the middle east because if something like this occurred, it would have about a 99.9% chance of happening there. That region has been at war with itself since biblical times. Are you saying you would not be complaining now if it had been Russians instead of Arabs?

I guess the meek can inherit the Earth now. It looks like the stupid aren't doing anything with it.

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Just wondering if you ever get outraged when middle eastern sadists kill Americans. That movie was released just a couple years after a suicide bomb in Beirut killed 241 American servicemen and six years after Iranians kept 100+ Americans hostage for 444 days.

Probably not the two best historical situations to talk about when enforcing a right wing ideology.

First of all the only reason that coup (and the taking of the American embissey) ever happened was because the US has supported the Shah (Monarch ruler) of Iran who was more interested in exploiting his nation's people and natural resources to the west than helping his people rise up. Oh and the only reason that the Islamic revolution of the 1970s happened was because the CIA had been helping the Shah get rid of all of his left wing opposition since the 1950s. So by the 70s you had a generation who had never known freedom and all of the left-wingers who opposed him were dead or jailed all that was left was the ultra conservative religious fanatics. Not only that but the hostages were kept for as long as they were as a result of (than Governor) Reagen cutting a back-end deal with Iran to hold the hostages until Carter was out of office, to make Carter look weak and help Reagen get a victory. The payback for that was revealed in the Iran/Contra scandal where it was revealed that Reagen was selling weapons to Iran, despite supporting Iraq in that war, as payback for the hostage situation.

As for Beirut, where 241 Marines died. Reagen pulled all of our troops out of that conflict within a week and invaded Grenada a week later. Good strong leadership there. Pull out after the first shots are fired and invade a random place as a distraction.

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I'm not a 'liberal' or a 'conservative', I don't go under any labels, I have a set of political beliefs that are solely my own, and arguing with liberals or conservatives on an IMDB page about a cheesy American 80's flick is about as productive as slamming your dick in a door.

But I digress;
there weren't '100+ Americans hostages' there were 51 in Iran

and as for the Beirut Barracks bombing, well Tristan, when you strap on a gun and go strutting around someone else's country you better be ready for some action, people are touchy over that kind of thing!


these are strange times:
http://www.thesetimeswelivein.com/

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Dude, your putting too much into this movie. This is not high drama. This is a cheack your brain at the door, and enjoy the Dogfights, and explosions. It's very campy, and fun. No one past the age of 12 takes it seriously, if you do that of corse you will not enjoy it.

*Forever Cho Chang Fan*
Cho's story continues at: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1552296/1/

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[deleted]

Propaganda = Any war film with the Americans as the good guys.

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So that makes Independance Day and Mars Attacks progaganda films.

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I.D. is certainly propaganda, but Mars Attacks isn't, since it's basically a parody of the first one.

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[deleted]

"The UN would be a joke without the U.S."

Perhaps. On the other hand, perhaps countries like Palestine would still exist today rather than being under a virtual apartheid system and a readily available punching bag for Israel.

The UN has been asking for years to have a semi-permanent military force at its disposal for when rapid interventions are needed. They haven't gotten it so far because the countries who really run the place - America being the biggest one - absolutely refuse to allow the UN Security Council to operate without a blank check from them.

The UN doesn't work? Guilty as charged. Except that the UN is nothing but the sum of its member parts, and the most powerful member parts (including the U.S.) have done everything they can to *make sure* that it remains impotent and unable to act. Now, what would the UN be like if countries like the U.S. were actually interested in making it work? *That's* a real question...

"The problem with these anti-American posts is that they get these ignorant ideas from the uneducated in Hollywood and the leftist teachers that dominate the "education" system teaching revisionist history."

Oh, my God...

It really is a convenient system that conservatives have going that claims "bias" in the educational system, the media, science, etc. Anytime the facts don't check out their way, just scream "BIAS!!! and start rambling about the ignorance of liberals...

What "bias" are you talking about? Every time I hear about accusations of "bias" I find out it's actually a fact that conservatives find uncomfortable admitting. U.S. supported contras in Nicaragua whose actions included mining harbors and killing nuns - well, they did. U.S. supported coups against Mossadegh's government which was democratic and not remotely pro-Soviet - well, they did. U.S. waged a decade-long war in Vietnam to keep in power a dictator whose people saw it as nothing but a war between two evils - well, they did. If learning the facts contributes to a world view in which the U.S. is seem as less than perfect, maybe the problem isn't that media, college and other institutions are "biased", but that the U.S. is in fact less than perfect? Maybe? Just maybe?

None of that affects Iron Eagle. It's a good, fun and yes, patriotic movie, which I and most viewers enjoyed for what it is. As for whether any producer could get away with it today - again, "The Kingdom"? Best terrorism movie of the decade as far as I'm concerned...


Denny Crane.

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["Every time I hear about accusations of "bias" I find out it's actually a fact that conservatives find uncomfortable admitting."]

And whenever I hear anyone disputing anti-American propaganda I hear those spouting it accusing anyone with a disenting view of what is now becoming "popular history" of being "conservative". So let me preface this by stating I'm not the least bit conservative, but I still dispute your "facts" and their interesting interpretations and spins.

["U.S. supported coups against Mossadegh's government which was democratic and not remotely pro-Soviet - well, they did."]

Classic spin-doctoring to justify the acts of the Islamic Revolution in Iran. No, he wasn't pro Soviet . . . He just nationalized all oil assets in the country, declaired Britain a national enemy, stomped out all opposition through violence or exile, dissolved parliament, and granted himself dictitorial "emergency powers". I'm not saying that the CIA should have involved itself in the anti-Mossadegh movement, but they were hardly the only catalyst to his downfall, and Mossadegh was hardly some innocent little lamb.

["U.S. waged a decade-long war in Vietnam to keep in power a dictator whose people saw it as nothing but a war between two evils - well, they did."]

Another ridiculous spin on history. Which dictator are you talking about? Can you even name him without looking him up? We'll assume you're referring to Thiệu, who although probably corrupt and more interested in hanging on to his position than effectively repelling the North was hardly a "dictator", and was elected freely. And if the United States was purely interested in keeping Thiệu in power it could easily have invaded across the DMZ all the way to Hanoi. But no, America never crossed in force into North Vietnam and instead attempted only to protect the sovereignty of South Vietnam in accordance with its SEATO obligations. It then left South Vietnam to twist in the wind after public support in America dwindled, and in contradiction of the Paris Peace Accords which North Vietnam completely violated, did nothing to stop the fall of Saigon.
As for the Vietnamese people themselves, they were hardly dispassionate victims of two super-powers slugging it out, no, many in the South did not want to live under the oppressive communist regime which is why literally millions of Vietnamese fled the country after the fall of Saigon while any member of the ARVN or anyone deemed "loyal" to the previous government who remained was put in prison and forced labor camps for the remainder of their lives or outright executed.

People like to view history as a sort of operatic battle between black hats and white hats, but unfortunately it's just not that simple.

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Mossadegh was ELECTED by the people to specifically carry out his aims that were pro-nationalist and socialist in nature; when a country has a majority that is poor an illiterate, it makes sense to foster a socialist set-up for the population until they are well-educated and have enough capital to graduate towards a capitalist-style economy and start businesses under their own entrepreneurship - the CIA and the British Intelligence are neither citizens of the country like Mossadegh nor were they elected - you know, that 'democracy' thingy people like 'the cyberpunk' like to harp on about so all that talk about him accusing others of 'spin -doctoring' facts is just him white-washing the facts, right?

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Crap for the late response... and thank you Salimi, for explaining the concept of democracy, one which appears to be lost on U.S. foreign policymakers in the modern age.

Well, let's take this one step at a time.

Mossadegh nationalized all the oil in the country. Yes, really, how dare the elected leader of Iran decide what the country should do with its own economic resources. Especially when the Iranian people had been clamoring for exactly that for years. What a concept. Maybe the UAE should have funded a military coup in Washington when we kicked out Dubai Ports World, too.

Mossadegh declared Britain a national enemy. There's a reason for that; Britain WAS a national enemy. They'd already occupied the country (jointly with the Soviets) for the duration of World War Two. Prior to that, it was a British-backed coup that had created the Pahlavi dynasty in the first place. And the AOIC had shown that it was willing to go to any lengths to preserve their domination over Iranian oil - which the Iranians were getting little if anything for in return.

Mossadegh "stamped out all opposition". Not only untrue, but Mossadegh RESIGNED. The "opposition", i.e. Qavam, then returned to the negotiating table with the British, resulting in such a popular outrage that the Shah dismissed him and re-appointed Mossadegh. "Emergency powers"? That's what you have when you're the leader of a country mired with foreign interests who are doing everything they can to undermine your democracy.

My favorite, though, has to be this: "Classic spin-doctoring to justify the acts of the Islamic Revolution in Iran." Ah yes, the knee-jerk reaction of the idiot who thinks anyone who opposes U.S. policy must be a terrorist sympathizer.

First of all, much of the reactionary clergy supported the Shah, not Mossadegh, because they were afraid of losing their power under his more secular government. Second, it's a good bet that the Iranian revolution would never have happened if not for the quarter-century of dictatorship that followed this coup - Khomeini might still have been pissed, but would have had a much harder time rallying the entire Iranian people. Third, if you could be so kind as to go back into my original post and show me where I indicated support for the revolution? What's that? You don't see any? Well, color me shocked. Looks like you're full of crap.

Moving on.

"We'll assume you're referring to Thiệu, who although probably corrupt and more interested in hanging on to his position than effectively repelling the North was hardly a "dictator", and was elected freely." Correction please; Thieu came to power in a military coup. To his credit, he did run for office in a free election in 1967 (more than any of his predecessors had done); however, in the next election (1971) he ran conveniently unopposed, somehow shooting up from 38% in 67 to 94% in 71.

"As for the Vietnamese people themselves, they were hardly dispassionate victims of two super-powers slugging it out, no, many in the South did not want to live under the oppressive communist regime which is why literally millions of Vietnamese fled the country after the fall of Saigon". Of course they didn't want to live under communism, few people do. Did they like their own regime better? Eight years of Diem had already poisoned the well, and none of the governments that followed were much more representative. Saigon was the devil they knew, nothing more.

If you want people to support your government when it takes extraordinary measures, they have to have some hope that their freedom will be back after the end of the emergency. The Americans had that in the Civil War as the Iranians did with Mossadegh, because they remembered a time before the war when government functioned democratically and responded to their will. The South Vietnamese never had that, not when their first independent government had been under Diem and the following ones all had their power base in the army, not the people.

"People like to view history as a sort of operatic battle between black hats and white hats, but unfortunately it's just not that simple."

My agreements. Please pass that on to the people who think anyone to the left of Ayn Rand is a communist and must be destroyed at all costs, regardless of how he/she got into power and whether or not it's in America's interests.


Denny Crane.

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"On the other hand, perhaps countries like Palestine would still exist today..."

STILL exist?! When did Palestine exist as a country before?! After the Romans kicked the Jews out in 70 AD, Turks, Arabs, and Egyptians moved into the Palestinian territory (there are no ethnic "Palestinians", historically they are just Turks, Arabs, and Egyptians) and the Palestinian territory was never really a country, was it? The territory was invaded by the Turks and became part of the Ottoman Empire for centuries, and when the Ottomans lost WWI, the land became British territory. The Brits gave it back to the rightful owners, the Jews in 1948.

"...rather than being under a virtual apartheid system and a readily available punching bag for Israel."

You do realize that the PLO attacks Israel first (via rocket attacks and bus bombings) and THEN Israel cracks down on the PLO. Israel is the victim.

"The UN has been asking for years to have a semi-permanent military force at its disposal..."

It already has one. Ever see the soildiers with the blue helmets? The so-called "U.N. Peacekeeping Force"? That's its permanent military force.

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I agree with zanbuddha. It was the 80's and Reagan was president. It sucked.

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This is seriously the dumbest thread I have ever seen. As for you, if you want socialism you are living in the wrong country. China and Russia are on the other side of the planet.

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And if you think either Russia or China are still socialist countries, you're living in the wrong century. Thanks for playing, though.


Denny Crane.

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I must say, these anti-americans here must have missed their english lessons. What is "Propoganda" for instance

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China and Russia? I think better examples of socialist countries would be Sweden and France. Perhaps you're making the common mistake of confusing socialism and communism; China is communist (but not socialist) and Russia was formerly communist.

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Notwithstanding the differences between communism and socialism - is China really communist? Given all the free-market reforms since Deng's rule, I don't think you can call them that anymore. A key component of communism was state control of everything economic, and that's not the case anymore. That's no longer the case in China, it's an alliance between the private sector and the government - if anything, that seems closer to fascism than to communism.

(Not saying for even a minute that communism was a good thing - see North Korea - just saying that China isn't a part of that world anymore).


Denny Crane.

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I would love to hear your opinion on "Redacted".

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