... because of his madness and the gunning down of a VC granny.
But in Full Metal Jacket everyone doesn't seem to mind "Animal Mother" gunning down random folks in a rice field for no reason other than insanity.
A lot of people see him as the main villain in this film. But really the villain was war itself which made him that way. He was desensitized by all the violence.
shareI must correct myself... "Animal Mother" isn't the guy I was thinking of... But the dude is still nuts.
shareGlad you realized that mistake... :)
The door gunner in FMJ was hardly as central a character as was Barnes in Platoon. There is less "hate" for him by and large because he was such a minor character, who came and went in the space of a few minutes. Contrast that with Barnes, who was the main antagonist of his story, and the question answers itself.
O praeclarum custodem ovium lupum!
A lot of people see him as the main villain in this film. But really the villain was war itself which made him that way. He was desensitized by all the violence.
If a person is at his core a good person he remains incorruptible. The Barnes character is not such a person, Elias is.
shareI think very few people are good enough to remain decent in every circumstance. Both history and various studies on human behavior to point to that the majority of people are capable of doing awful things at least occasionally in certain circumstances.
I think that Barnes USED to be a good man and still had a bit left in him, but the mixture of killing, watching people get killed, being in constant danger, and the responsibility placed on him had begun to eat at his morality. He became hardened and started to view the world as nothing more than a nihilistic killing field where the only hope of survival to kill and follow orders.
I don't think he is necessarily evil in the conventional sense of the word. He is just a man who has (if you will pardon the Star Wars reference) "turned to the Dark Side". He has allowed the majority of his empathy and mercy to stripped away and is running on his darkest instincts.
[deleted]
I think that the moral ambiguity of war was the point of Platoon. There are things that soldiers do (or witness others doing) in war that in normal civilization would be considered criminal but in moments of stress and survival are just occurrences.
An individual can choose to go along with the group, look the other way, or stand up against it (thereby getting isolated).
Why would someone go along with something that is morally wrong? There is a very strong motivation to follow an experienced NCO who you believe can keep you alive. And there is a very strong unified group mentality (culture) that generally a strong NCO represents the collective mind of, more than a young officer (who represents the by-the-book way). To exclude oneself from the main group by taking a moral/lawful stand does not bode well for future survival, especially in a conflict with a direct supervisor who decides risky assignments, who may or may not give support, and who, like everyone else, is armed.
Barnes, who seemed like an otherwise balanced, competent, effective NCO, on that day represented the wrath (perhaps misdirected) that they were feeling. Notice that Lt. Wolf even chose to be one of the "look the other way" people when the charges were brought up. Here in the calm and safety of civilization, of course we would all support Elias and morality being absolute. I don't condone criminal behaviour, but I for one did not "hate" Barnes.
Yeah, he was "desensitized".
No, he was like a lot of guys I've known or seen in and out of the Marine Corps. Like the Robert Duvall character in Apocalypse Now, the war just gave him a basis to express his monsterous personality and hide behind the notion of war (like a badge or a video game) to justify it.
Kind of like Chris Kyle, the "American Sniper".
Saying "I apologize" is the same as saying "I'm sorry." Except at a funeral.
Not been following the thread all that closely but 'eh'?
Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?
The post I responded to made me think of my impression of Chris Kyle. That he was a violent person who used the war in Iraq as an excuse to be violent without consequences. Off topic, yes, but it just sprang to mind when I read the post.
Saying "I apologize" is the same as saying "I'm sorry." Except at a funeral.
That he was a violent person who used the war in Iraq as an excuse to be violent without consequences. Off topic, yes, but it just sprang to mind when I read the post.
An argument can be made that Barnes was a necessary element in the war. That he made everyone safer because he could do what was necessary to make the men safe. However, I say there must be a sense of "law" even with military battles. The people in the village who were thought to be supplying the enemy were probably doing just that. But Barnes should not have killed the woman. If she'd have been an immediate threat to the men then yes, kill her. But she wasn't. Barnes was just trying to get information from her, or from her husband. In this instance he was wrong, and was definitely due for some military justice. In this act he is the antagonist in the film.
A Dog's Life for Me
Barnes murdered Elias.
Yeah, but...
Elias was full of *beep* Elias was a crusader. Now I got no fight with any man that does what he's told... But when he don't, the machine breaks down. And when the machine breaks down, WE break down. And I'm not gonna allow that. From any of ya. Not one.
O praeclarum custodem ovium lupum!
You're as thick as a block of marble, aren't you, you blathering idiot? Go *beep* yourself.
Hama cheez ba-Beer behtar meshawad!
Yes, very thick. The length is impressive, too.
Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.
Then you'd better do yourself some good, and shove that hard fast up your equally thick arse, son. Perhaps then you'll learn to watch what comes out of your *beep* mouth, you illiterate *beep*
Hama cheez ba-Beer behtar meshawad!
You realize that the post that you originally responded to - and the one you are now claiming as some indication of my illiteracy - is a direct quote from Barnes in the film. Right? I mean, you're not so stupid as to be saying that I should watch what comes out of my mouth when what was coming out of it were Oliver Stone's words?
Of course you are. Dumbass. Go play internet tough guy somewhere else, will ya? It's not 1996 any more.
Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.
I guess he didn't...
share
freakin hilarious!
Most people side with Elias because they look at him like a good guy and in a bad war. For the longest time I hated Barnes. But if I want to survive the war I want to be with Barnes. Especially in Vietnam where any non American was essentially the enemy. The VC would work with you in the day and plant booby traps at night. In a guerilla war of that magnitude you have to be ruthless. You have to treat EVERYONE as the enemy because they were. Now I am not advocating murder in any way, and lets be clear thats what it was, but the minute you start playing nice with potential VC you are already dead. This is what guerilla warfare does to you. You cant trust anyone and have to be ruthless if you want to survive. Damn winning the war, I want to survive
But if I want to survive the war I want to be with Barnes.
Are you kidding? As screenwrier and author George MacDonald Fraser, a veteran of jungle fighting himself, put it, Barnes is a lousy soldier and he wouldn't bet on his platoon to beat a Salvation Army band.
Barnes is a terrible leader. He plays favourites, He encourages cliques. He lacks self-discipline. He doesn't support and mentor his platoon officer. That he murders a subordinate should be something of a clue that he's not doing a very good job of leading that platoon. Is it any wonder that the platoon is all but wiped out at the end of the film?
Barnes has survived in the war for years and knows what the heck is going on. Like spotting the bunker that was right in front of Chris and he didnt even see. He seemed to have plenty discipline out in the field jumping all over Chris and Junior for falling asleep. He recongnized that the LT had given them the wrong grid and gave them the right one. There is a reason he is still alive till the end. And you are listing flaws of any officer.
Elias was equally good in a different way. You could not go wrong with either. And the LT relies on Barnes to know what to do. Yes he killed one of his own men. But if I was in that platoon I would want to know how Barnes has survived this long, just like Elias. You could not go wrong with either.
And the reason the platoon is all but wiped out is no replacements and this is how it really was. They were used as bait like every other unit. That means walk into an ambush every mission, have casualties, go back to base and do it all again the next day. The platoon being wiped out is a very real symptom of the way the war was fought. And for any of them to survive the last battle when they were clearly undermanned was a miracle.
There is a reason he is still alive till the end.
When he's murdered by one of his own soldiers while losing his platoon. Did I mention he lost his platoon? Great leadership that. If you think Barnes is a decent soldier then you're very, very wrong. Whatever personal skills he might have, he's a rotten soldier. He's not just personally rotten, but he corrupts his entire platoon. I've spoken to Vietnam vets too and I can tell you that this film is a caricature of what really happened in Vietnam.
He had already served multiple tours so he found a way to best survive at thats my whole point. I never said he was a great or decent leader, he is a hell of a soldier. Did I mention that platoons were severly undermanned at times in Vietnam? You know there is an old saying, which I cant really remember well, but it was if you ask 100 soldiers about there time in Nam, each one will give you a different answer. I can promise you that I know all about the war as much or more than you.
"and I can tell you that this film is a caricature of what really happened in Vietnam."
You have to be joking or just making things up. The events in the film are realistic. The characters? Maybe not. Go read a book or 2 on 'Nam and stop talking out of your ass about knowing vets who claim this movie is a caricature.
You do know Stone is a Vet? Events in the movie are based on his experiences INCLUDING the duel between the 2 sgts.
Oh and ive talked to Vets and the say the movie is realistic.
Barnes is a terrible leader. He plays favourites, He encourages cliques. He lacks self-discipline. He doesn't support and mentor his platoon officer. That he murders a subordinate should be something of a clue that he's not doing a very good job of leading that platoon. Is it any wonder that the platoon is all but wiped out at the end of the film?
Barnes was an @sshole who got what he deserved.
shareBarnes murdered the Village elder's wife, threatened to murder his daughter, tried to murder Elias (and played a major part in his death)and was an all-around prick to just about every-one in the movie. That is why so many people hate him.
Your seargent isnt supposed to be nice to everyone. He makes sure your @ss does what its supposed to. They were also VC, you know that right? Now yes he murdered that women which was profoundly disturbing but it happens in war. Its a reality, especially in guerilla warfare in Vietnam. I always considered him as Elias Killer no matter if his bullets actually killed him in the end. He got what he deserved in the end.
As Platoon Sergeant, he's responsible for the training, discipline, and administration of the platoon. He's supposed to support and mentor the platoon commander who will be a new Second Lieutenant in his first leadership position. He's supposed to ensure that the platoon acts as a team not a bunchof competeing cliques and individuals suspicious of each other. He's supposed to ensure, as part of maintaining discipline, that he and his troops are not committing war crimess - acts which sabotage the greater war effort as well as being subversive of discipline.
Barnes singularly fails in all these things. As a result, his platoon is desttroyed by the enemy.
Are you in a war against me? I simply said HIS JOB IS NOT TO BE NICE, ITS TO MAKE SURE YOU DO WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO. The divisions withing the group were in almost every platoon in vietnam of that time. The people who think what they are doing is right and just and the people who dont think its right and just. You cant change that no matter what you do. Maybe in a perfect world with a perfect war but I am pretty sure Vietnam was anything but.
Again what is job is and what the reality was are 2 different things. I have interviewed 4 people who fought in Vietnam and another 1 was my grandfather. Especilly around Tet was when attitudes changed in the soldiers. Losing men to booby traps over and over without ever seeing the enemy takes a tole on the soldiers who were not trained or equipped to fight a guerilla war. Events like My Lai should NEVER HAPPEN. But they did. Usually the first Vietnamese people you see will bare the brunt of the rage. Its sad to say but everyone was the enemy in Vietnam. He helps his LT out the whole movie if you ask me.
Again the reality is that most units had these problems post tet in the Nam and just prior to it. This movie is just prior to it.
The UNITED STATES failed these things you speak of as a whole, not Barnes. There was no clear strategy of what to do and if they were winning and when soldiers realized this, the war changed for them. Again, the units that were used for search and destroy missions took heavy casualties by being bait. It sucked but it was the reality of war. Everyone failed these things, not just Barnes.
He helps his LT out the whole movie if you ask me.
Right. Because, of course, nothing helps a new subaltern in his first posting more than being treated with obvious, visible contempt by his platoon sergeant and have his command turned into a backstabbing collection of indiviiduals.
Do you realize how serious you are taking a MOVIE? He saves the LTs ass during the ambush where he called in wrong grids. He set up the very first ambush where Taylor falls asleep. Again Barnes knew how to stay alive for multiple tours so I, ME PERONALLY, WOULD WANT TO KNOW HOW HE HAD DONE SO. Get over yourself man, its a movie and this is all opinion about the MOVIE. You want to talk real Vietnam then I am down. Again, there is a reason he has survived that long.
Why do you not realize that platoons were really in these situations? Back then you didnt go as a unit so the platoons were losing there best soldiers after there year was up and replacing them with draftees, which led to no unity in platoons, squads, anything. Still its a movie and Barnes is a CHARACTER in the movie bro
Taylor didn't fall asleep, not while he was on watch at least, it was Junior who fell asleep on watch.
shareYeah I know it was Junior. I said that way as to where there was no confusion. Trust me I know every single line to the movie. Thanks for letting me know that anyways.
Haters gonna hate but trolls are pathetic
Because he acts like he owns the entire unit and they shouldn't question his methods, he does not stop his men from harassing the villagers, he murders an innocent villager and threatesn to murder her daughter as well. He kills his fellow soldier in cold blood. And in the end he tried to kill Taylor as well.
He deserves the hate that he gets. He is an excellent example of how corrupted a soldier can get.
'No one cared who I was until I put on the mask.'
Where do I start with a question like this? This is one of the most inexplicable things I've ever seen on imdb.com, and that's saying a lot.
by - MikeyEvan on Tue Mar 6 2012 17:37:38
Why all the hate for Barnes... ... because of his madness and the gunning down of a VC granny.
But in Full Metal Jacket everyone doesn't seem to mind "Animal Mother" gunning down random folks in a rice field for no reason other than insanity.
I don't hate him. I pity him. He might look evil compared to Elias's good nature but he is just misunderstood. The war had obviously taken a mental toll on him and his position of power within the platoon lead to corruption. He was paranoid, violent, aggressive, and had no compassion. A deadly combo. I'm sure he didn't always not give a shxt about things but one to many tours and he snapped. It's almost like he thinks there is something wrong with Elias because he hasnt been corrupted and it makes him nervous. After the situation at the village his paranoia peaks leading to him killing Elias. When he sits outside the stoners bunker I feel like he really felt bad about what he did but still justified. After his speech to the potheads about death you see he's completely embraced the madness. Chris had to put him down in the end. A guy like Barnes could no longer be a part of a civilized society. Great character. Tragic story.
sharesomeone asking about why a villain in a movie is hated makes about as much sense as asking why anyone hates the Emperor in Star Wars, Sauran in LOTR, Biff in BTTF, Disney villains in their respective movies, the T-1000 in Terminator 2, Khan in Star Trek, Johnny Lawrence in The Karate Kid, Agent Smith in The Matrix movies, and ON AND ON AND ON!
For the uninformed OP who must have been born yesterday: usually, in movies and every other form of storytelling, the villain is set up as someone who we do not ultimately relate to and do not ultimately sympathize with because they are bad in some way. Now this doesn't apply to all villains but it does when it concerns someone, such as Barnes, who killed innocent people and endangered the lives of his fellow soldiers at times because he was a psychotic.
Now, while I agree with others on here for the reason he was crazy (been in a guerrilla state of mind too long) that still doesn't mean that he is misunderstood and should be liked...many serial killers are desensitized to the murder of human beings because their minds are warped yet the public still despises them, tries them, and usually executes them. It's simple: FOR WHATEVER THE REASON MAY BE, MURDERING INNOCENTS IS GENERALLY FROWNED UPON BY SOCIETY. That is "why all the hate for Barnes" is there by those who've seen the film. Come on...
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the truth hurts...sorry but it's true