Did Withnail love Marwood in a homosexual way, or was their love merely a highly intense friendship and kindredness? I'm not in any way adverse to either option.
I only wondered whether there was much significance in the end of the Hamlet speech- "Man delights not me. No, nor women neither. Nor women neither."
What are your opinions?
"Always be a poet..."-Charles Baudelaire
It seems that the director has always been non specific about this element of the movie, but it's fairly clear to interpret that this could be the case. Indeed, one might notice that Withnail first conspires against Marwood after he refers to Monty as a "raving homosexual" because it's shortly after this that Withnail goes off in private with Monty and makes up that whole story about Marwood's unrequited affections for Withnail. And Withnail seems from that point on single minded in engineering a situation whereby Marwood is propositioned by Monty- even after they got what they wanted out of the cottage.
share"It seems that the director has always been non specific about this element of the movie"
Could you point me toward an interview where Bruce Robinson has been directly asked a question regarding this matter?
no
shareLight28, could you be more specific? What do you meean by just "NO".
I always wondered whether Withnail was actually in denial of any homosexual emotions he may have had towards Marwood, and in order to forget them he ridicules them and takes the piss out of them by inducing Monty to get Marwood on his own. And also by telling Monty that Marwood is a 'toilet trader' [that is a male prostitute to you and me]. Teeheehahaaa!
"Always be a poet..."-Charles Baudelaire
I honestly don't think there was anything in it, I just think that was Withnail's way, plus the inability to express himself very well.
I know it's kind of open to debate about both their sexuality but for me, I can just never see it. Their way with each other is far more really good friends than lovers.
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SAFC
Hola, I always had the impression that Withnail was in love with Marwood, and Marwood rejected him previously. Which perhaps Withnail enjoyed small revenge in telling Monty the opposite.
After Marwoods unfortunate incident with Monty and in the argument with Withnail that follows, I believe he puts a lot of accent in the way he says 'I can't believe you told him that I rejected you ' as if to suggest the opposite is true.
He also seems quite keen to get into bed with him the night they believe they are being stalked by the poacher.
And as you said the second woeful 'Nor women neither', final nail in the coffin.
Great points. I certainly think something was there between them. It never manifested, but it was there.
shareWithnail = definitely not gay
Marwood = probably hetero; possibly gay, but still not into Uncle Monty for obvious reasons, and not a prostitute.
Withnail, like Hamlet (as evidenced by the lines they have in common) is asexual, or more accurately, nonsexual.
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Withnail: Are we there?
Marwood: No, we're not, we're here!
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Squeeth's on to something there - and I like the Mrs Bates analogy (and the sentence). I don't think 'middle class work ethic' is a precise enough concept to pin down, at least not in this context. I just think Withnail's indolence and recklessness serves to remind Marwood that it's time to get on. No matter, I think this speculation about implicit homosexuality won't get anyone very far.
I certainly like imagining the back-story of characters, and I think, for example, the 6 minute Charlie Kunz medley I unearthed (which includes 'Walk Hand in Hand' - used in the film) lends itself well to that: it's not hard to picture, while listening to it, a young Monty at Oxford, dancing with a young lady, as he eyes 'Norman' in the corner.
But I digress. When it comes to Withnail and Marwood the question raised here tells us that we don't fully know the extent of their relationship, to which the sensible response, it seems to me, is: So what? Perhaps they don't either. Such is life.
The lion and the calf shall lie down together, but the calf won't get much sleep.share
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Thanks for that, Here_Hare_Here - good too see someone come to the discussion well prepared.
The lion and the calf shall lie down together, but the calf won't get much sleep.share
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You want working on, boy.
The lion and the calf shall lie down together, but the calf won't get much sleep.share
I don't think there was anything sexual between the two. Times when both were skint apart from booze money, Marwood needing someone as expressive as Withnail as Marwood is anxious and often won't stand up for himself, even with Withnail, so circumstance paired them together.
Therefore the fact Marwood stays with Withnail and is the only friend Withnail has, confuses Withnails thoughts, but I think he quietly idolises Marwood, when he congratulates him on two seperate occasions, its not jealous but more lost oppurtunity for himself, realising in the last scene at the house he and Marwood won't see each other again.
If anyone is aware of The Libertines, a band based in London, they lived in squalor for most of their career and the lead singers, Pete Doherty and Carl Barat had a similar relationship to Withnail and Marwood.
They often showed affection to one another, bordering homosexuality, but were not gay or in love. Although I think they got through their lowest times by having each other and the music.
I think Withnail loved Marwood but not in a sexual way but in more of a 'i need and can't live without my friend' kind of way. Especially as most people tend to avoid or shun Withnail because of his demeanor, like Pete.
I recommend The Libertines to anyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_pLO5ev6mc
To answer that question definitively, you'd have to look at the source, which is Robinson's firned Vivien. Research that angle. Also, in the original draft of the film, Withnail goes back to his flat and kills himself (or so someone on this board has said). So look to what Robinson has said about his friend.
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I think the ending speech answers the question - Withnail was a misanthrope, he hated the world, there is no suggestion of homosexuality between them.
share@lazy_boy_uk NO way. There were way too many allusions, visual references, etc for this to be true. Marwood was having anxiety attacksat the being b/c he knew Whitnail wanted him yet he was straight. He writes about the relationship going wrong. How about how it implies that marwood had allowed a possibility that Whitnail be able to consummate a relation? and Whitnail is always trying to get Marwood drunk enough to give in and to give up on his hard work ethic so that he becomes trapped and dependent on the Whitnail family money. Also how Whitnail drinks to dull the pain that he knows that Marwood is developing a successful career and therefore won't be dependent on him anymore--Whitnails lack of work ethic has to do more with depressions and being a bad influence on his friend who looks up to him.
I can't believe this is even being debated.......
The film's autobiographical - and Bruce Robinson isn't homosexual. You only read homosexuality into the story because you *want* to read homosexuality into the story.
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