MovieChat Forums > Lethal Weapon 2 (1989) Discussion > Vorstedt should never have been revealed...

Vorstedt should never have been revealed as the killer.

posted 17 years ago by Mr-Fusion
36 replies | jump to latest

SPOILERS

Granted, this is not a universal opinion, but suddenly revealing Vorstedt (out of nowhere) to be the one to run Victoria Riggs off the road is an example of bad writing. I know Shane Black had a hand in the script, but I've also seen other names attached, so I don't know who's to blame. And it doesn't ruin a good movie for me, but it's certainly unnecessary.

It's obvious why they did this...they needed something to make Riggs snap and go ballistic on the bad guys. But it could've been handled a lot better than just coming up with this on the fly. All they had to do was build up the Riggs/Rika relationship a little but more, and that alone should've been enough to send Riggs over the edge and start killing people. Here was a fresh start at happiness for Riggs, and they snatch it right out from under him and kill an innocent woman.

The bad guys even proclaimed war on the police department! What more reason does Riggs need? His friends are dead!

It's the same thing that happened in Spider-Man 3. The Sandman was never even a glimmer in anyone's eye when the first movie was filmed and Ben Parker was murdered. The audience and Peter knew that Blondie killed Ben. That moment is what created Spider-Man. But wait! Peter, Blondie was just the other guy in the car. Sandman really pulled the trigger! Again, same reason. The writers are trying to come up with a reason for Spider-Man to go after The Sandman. "Well, let's see..... we could make him the murderer! All we'd need to do is refilm the crime scene but insert Thomas Haden Church, and BOOM! Now he's the killer, not Blondie!"

Things like this should never be rehashed to give motivation. Both movies had enough motivation to avoid a cheap shot like this.

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"Fuzzy wuzzy killer polar bears!"

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] byubarbie2002 17 years ago

IMO, any movie loses credibility when they try to pull that off as a 'twist'. It seems to be a staple in action movies now though.
I still love this movie regardless...it shows what a sequel should be.

.....................................................

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[–] ravi02 17 years ago

I love LW2 as well, but I agree with the original poster that Vorstedt's connection to Riggs is rather contrived.

I find it hard to swallow that these villains, that Riggs and Murtaugh come across over the course of the film, just happened to also have killed his wife. I mean come on don't we already hate these guys enough already; they're racist pricks, cop killers and murder Riggs's new girlfriend. By having somebody responsible for his wife's death and then having Riggs beat him, sort of cheapens Rigg's character arc in the original film.

[–] jackson-219 17 years ago

Yeah, I thought it was kind of crappy myself, but that's dick donner for ya.

[–] vorbvorb 16 years ago

It wasn't exactly out of nowhere. Vorstedt takes an interest in Riggs from the moment they meet, even knowing his name. This happens pretty early, so the writers protected themselves well. It played fine.

[–] audiosane 11 years ago

Yeah, I liked how Riggs was too in the moment to realize that Vorstedt knew his first and last name.

[–] deontee2002 15 years ago

The contrivances don't end with Vorstedt either; you mean to tell me that Leo Getz just HAPPENS to be laundering money for the SAME South Africans? Entertaining movie, yes. But come on.

[–] willywonkasrevenge 8 years ago

What about the crazy random coincidence that Mr. Joshua is dating Murtaugh's daughter in the first one before they get involved in the bad guys' evil plot.

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[–] ShadySovereign 16 years ago

I found the fact that Vorstedt killed Riggs' wife to be a good thing, because it intensified Riggs' hatred of the bad guys even more than usual

"Only Spartan women give birth to real men" - Queen Gorgo in 300

[–] moviemaker928 16 years ago

After Vorstedt shoots the guy in the head for losing the gold Arjen mentions the cops are getting too close again.

[–] theonlymovieking 16 years ago

i liked how they started playing it but it was sorta all out of nowhere...i didn't like it too much but it was a great movie! i also never understood why riggs dropped off his love interest after they were getting shot at...good time to drive to the police station

[–] JoeyBagOfDonuts 16 years ago

Well, I think that by having Derrick's character reveal to Riggs that HE killed his wife, and HE killed Rika (directly or indirectly), he is just rubbing it (Riggs "bad luck") in his face. Vorstedt clearly got off on the fact that he was able to HURT Riggs, despite the fact that the mission during the first hit was to KILL Riggs. Vorstedt is clearly sadistic. He doesn't just seem to view his working for Arjen as a job - he actually seems to enjoy it. And that's what makes a bad guy truly bad.

The other reason I didn't have a issue with Vorstedt revealing this information, is that it gave Riggs an opportunity for closure. He finally found out what happened to Victoria, and why. And that knowledge allowed him to maybe not come to peace, but at least to be able to deal with her death (murder) now. And the fact that he was able to punish the person who took her from him most likely felt pretty good. I'm not advocating revenge, but you can't argue that sometimes it IS sweet.

[–] Lunchbox-3 8 years ago

So you're saying that if his wife had merely died in an accident and no one was to blame, Riggs would never achieve closure? She had to be murdered by someone and Riggs had to take revenge on that murderer for closure to happen? That kind of sucks then for all the rest of the people who lose their loved ones to accidental circumstances.

[–] JoeyBagOfDonuts 8 years ago

Are we talking real life or the movies?

Things never really have closure in real life... You often just accept things as 'he works in mysterious ways'....

In the movies it helps the audience to identify with and get behind the hero.

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[–] grbettencourt 16 years ago

They let on early that Vorstedt knew Riggs from before, that had to lead somewhere, and Vorstedt being Rudd's right-hand-man and main killer and all the misery he cause Riggs gave him an excellent reason for the way in which he killed him.

[–] Howlin Wolf 16 years ago

I don't care how out of left field it might be, so long as it's written and performed well - and it is! Come on; you lose the sheer coldbloodedness of Vorstedt (best villain of the series... ) if you take that out! I actually believed that the character was evil when I heard how perfectly lines such as:

"She didn't die straight away - took a bit of time... "

&,

"You don't have much luck with women, do you, Riggs?!"

... were delivered. If Riggs were real and I'd have been in his position then that would have sent me nuts, too. Plus, it shows continuity between series entries, and I like that.

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[–] franzkabuki 15 years ago

Yeah, one would have thought killing of the broad and half a dozen police detectives he personally knew woulda been enough to get at least ´some´ rise out of him...

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

[–] Benihanahasnofunflare 12 years ago

Classic twist! C'MON!

[–] col547 12 years ago

I agree with OP it slightly ruins a great film.It was better off as if Riggs' wife had just died in a car accident and just have Riggs pissed off at the fact that they'd killed Rica.

There was really no point to it.He'd still lost two women he loved either way,so his actions at the end would still be justified.Not to mention afterwards he finds out about his friends been killed as well.

A pointless plot contrivance.But I can ignore it because the film's just too damn good.

[–] Benihanahasnofunflare 12 years ago

Maybe trying a little too hard. Maybe.

[–] ThingyBlahBlah3 12 years ago

I think it would have been fun to find out later that Vorstedt actually had nothing to do with Riggs' wife, and that he only said all that stuff to mess with Riggs' head before killing him.

Although it's probably bad writing, I'm not too bothered by it, mainly because LW2 would still be a wild mess of a movie even without Vorstedt's revelation. Entertaining, surely, but still a wild mess.

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[–] ScottBBT 12 years ago

I have to agree with the OP. I think that twist was not needed at all, not because it’s unrealistic (I can handle unrealistic in an 80s action movie) but because it’s really not necessary. As the other poster said, Riggs became a “lethal weapon” the moment he saw Rika’s body underwater. That, combined with the fact that all of his friends on the police department had been murdered, gave him all the impetus he needed to become the eponymous crazy man we knew from the original film.

If anything, that twist would have made more sense in Lethal Weapon 3 or 4, because he’s not remotely a lethal weapon in those movies, and it would have given him a reason to be.

[–] RParmly-3 12 years ago

If anything, that twist would have made more sense in Lethal Weapon 3 or 4, because he’s not remotely a lethal weapon in those movies, and it would have given him a reason to be.

There was a suggestion over on the Lethal Weapon 3 boards some time ago that the "I killed Riggs' wife" twist should have been saved for that movie. It would've made the guy in that movie more menacing and nasty (the racism and killing Rika was plenty enough for the South Africans). I think it would've been a great idea, personally.

That man is playing Galaga! Thought we wouldn't notice. But we did.

[–] trekkie313 11 years ago

I think Vorstedt was lying to piss off Riggs before sending him to his death, Riggs seemed pretty calm knowing he was probably going to die until the "phony revelation".

[–] Verdugo85 11 years ago

Well..it didnt really bother me but the idea of Vorstedt killing Riggs wife was a way to put Riggs dilemma at rest and move on with his life with Murtaugh and his family.

Gibson's character was changing time after time ever since he was partnered with Murtaugh.