MovieChat Forums > Heat (1995) Discussion > Is Neil a straight up villain or anti-he...

Is Neil a straight up villain or anti-hero?


Yes, Neil is technically a criminal and somebody that we shouldn't admire, but Heat is one of the rare movies, where I actually feel sympathetic for the supposed "bad guy" and actually want to root for him. I always thought that Waingro was the true "villain" (i.e. pure evil and rotten to the core) of Heat.

This is how TV Tropes described Neil:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/Heat

Anti-Villain: Neil is a Type I with some shades of a Type IV. He's a thief and he's not above killing, but he's a professional with standards, who avoids violence unless necessary and is loyal to his crew. He's also depicted as a somewhat pitiable figure as his mentality of never getting too attached to anything means he lives a very lonely life.

Even Evil Has Standards: Neil is willing to commit murder if he thinks it's necessary, but usually tries to avoid that necessity. Of the three heist attempts we see, one is after midnight at a business with no night shift, while the other two are carefully choreographed plans that rely on intimidation, surprise, and nonlethal violence (with the clear threat of lethal escalation if someone doesn't cooperate) to cow security guards and witnesses. As Hanna points out, the third armored truck guard was murdered because at that point, a third murder would cost them less than a live witness to the first two, and Neil is pissed about those first two. So pissed, in fact, that he and his crew try to kill Waingro for it.

Gentleman Thief: A Deconstructed Character Archetype. Neil has the charm and all the connections, but he's painfully lonely, and won't get close to anyone for fear that the cops will be right around the corner.

Karmic Thief: Neil and his crew only target high-value targets like precious metal depositories, banks and corporate money vans. Invoked during the bank robbery scene when Neil says, "We want to hurt nobody. We're here for the bank's money, not your money. Your money's insured by the federal government, you're not going to lose a dime. Think of your families, don't risk your life, don't try to be a hero."

Pragmatic Villainy: Neil and his crew are milder cases but still, they don't seem noticeably upset about shooting the guards during the armored car robbery. And during the bank shootout, they don't show much concern for the many innocent bystanders they're endangering (when we see Neil shoot a burst at Hanna in the parking lot, one officer gets shot, and it looks like at least one bystander also gets hit as well, possibly fatally). But they're disgusted with Waingro because he escalated the armored car robbery into a bloodbath and his reckless actions are a liability to them.


https://moviechat.org/tt0113277/Heat/58c7703d93cef4080d785c9f/Sympathy-for-Neil-and-his-crew

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Neil was a straight up sociopath. A dangerous criminal that would serve the society better to see in prison for the remainder of his life.

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I would sooner side with anti-hero than villain. If he was going to be depicted as a villain he wouldn't have been humanised so much in the film i.e. falling in love with Eady, talking about being alone, wanting to get away to Fiji, helping out his friends.

And yes Waingro is the true villain. The film literally goes out of its way to depict him as an unsympathetic bad guy. There was no need for the scene with him killing the teenage prostitute other than to tell us how much of a monster he is.

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Michael Mann is far too sophisticated a filmmaker to think in binaries of ‘good and evil’, he wants to understand people, especially criminals and cops. In his commentary he makes the distinction between Hanna, who will never hurt innocent people to achieve his goals, and McCauley who reluctantly will if necessary.

Credit to Mann for making all of the characters likeable, except for Waingro - who is largely there to show what truly evil men look like, he’s a sadistic psychopath, a million miles from McCauley and his gang of immoral crooks.

The line between good and evil lies in every human heart, it’s not ascribed to this group or that group as many ideologies would have us believe.

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This is a good answer. Compare him to someone like Michael Bay Who only wants to slobber on cop characters the entire run time.

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I would say that Neil straddles the line between anti-hero and anti-villain. Read those tropes descriptions on the tv tropes page.

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Despicable villain. The robbery at the beginning says it all. First, ramming that armored car could have easily killed or seriously injured one of those poor guards. Then the shape charge seriously damaging their hearing. And when the bank robbery went wrong, he ordered the execution of that last guard who was just some poor guy who took a thankless job to support his family.

And why was he willing to do this to innocent people? Because he felt entitled to the rich life without having to get up every day and work hard (like the poor guards he killed).

I'm pretty sure that the wife and kids of those guards would not feel conflicted about calling him what he was.

This is not a criticism of the movie at all, because I also felt sad when he died. The director and the actor really did it well so that they humanized him and could make people like me feel some sense of tragedy when he blows his chance to retire with Eadie and gets himself killed. This is what is great about this movie. I'm just saying that if one steps back and looks at it objectively he is not someone who deserves sympathy.

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Neil was a professional villain, willing to kill anybody if it benefited him. At no point did I find myself rooting for him. I wanted Hanna to catch him and make him to pay for his actions.

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