A another reason why people don't like this film is that it makes Snake out to be the world's biggest mass murder! think about it, planes would fall out of the sky and crash, hospital life surport systems would shut off, life would become hell on earth and innocent people would die. Snake's an anti-hero yes but not a cold careless heartless murder!
share[deleted]
Sad story. Got a smoke?
Come with me if you want to live.
It's certainly one of the most misanthropic endings I have ever seen. I think Snake wanted to bring everyone back to 0. When he said "welcome to the human race" he meant that human beings were going to have to find a way to coexist with each other again and to rebuild (start over).
But yeah, I thought the same... that all Snake did was create a world of mass chaos, but at least in that world people would be free to do what they want to do.
Exactly, while the repercussions would be enormous Snake did it with the intention of trying to erase the corruption of the world. Like the previous poster had said, we would have to restart and learn to co-exists with each other in a world that would be difficult to survive in. We would have no choice but to depend on each other for survival.
shareHey you know what? I had always thought that Snake shut down the world just to be a dick to Malloy and the Prez. But the idea that he did it in order to "fix" what was wrong with the world? That's really cool. I like that.
shareNope
In total, estimates of the total number murdered under Stalins reign, range from 10 million to 60 million.
You better get a lot of planes up in the air to kill that many.
And the billions that would die in the following decade? His fault. Make Stalin look like a piker.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
Base the numbers N.Y. happening in the year 1997 when in the real world we had about 6 billion people on the planet. Since N.Y. was a quarantined penal area, and L.A. has nothing left, were looking at a few million less people in the U.S. alone. In this movie they explain half of the world is a prison, so we can realistically cut the numbers down on the same scale(nearly everyone). Probably not even a billion people left on Earth in their version of 2013.
shareSo in other words, he doomed the human race to extinction.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
The people would be free to do what they want? Yeah, right. I guess this is just a huge t-bagger wet dream, huh? Billions would die violent deaths as gangs of marauders wreak havoc across the world. Billions more would die slow, painful deaths. Hope you stocked up on ammo and food.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
Well it's the future and set in a 'fantasy' version of earth.
So how do you KNOW planes, life support, etc work the same way as they do now in our earth?
Jesus died for our sins. As he's already dead...sin away.
[deleted]
It's set in 2013, 1 1/2 years for you, the present day for me. Maybe this was the alternate universe USA had the t-baggers been successful in 2012.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
This was the problem with the movie when I first saw it. besides things such as life support, consider most medicine isn't made by hippies in a forest, all the equipment used is electrical. Considering ERs are completely useless because there is no X-rays, no surgeries, nothing that we take for granted.
Also cities do not have the ability feed all it's people, food is shipped in by trucks. No trucks mean people starve. And most farms probably use tractors instead of horses, so every country's ability to produce the amount of food to feed people is gone.
Consider how many people rioted during Katrina or the LA riots, now the police can't get to places where criminals are looting, raping and killing, and firefighters can't drive to those areas to put out fires, and ambulances aren't getting to the areas where people have been shot or even have heart attacks
And any natural disasters are that much worse because when winter comes hundreds of millions of people are starting fires to stay warm, thats besides all the fires to cook food. So now any piece of furniture or book is bonfire fuel during winter.
Snake asked the president about what he thought about the people who died saving him at the end of the last one. He wasn't a stone cold bastard. What he did at the end of this one made him look like a grade A bastard.
shareYeah, I never thought too much about that but it does sort of sour the movie a bit. However, if he didn't do it and gave the president the device, he'd live a sociopath in control who will probably do a lot worse as time goes by.
But I do disagree with most of the people on here. There may have been some moral motivation behind Snake's actions, but mainly, I think they just pissed him off.
Should've been the lead in to Revolution, would've made for better television.
|Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|
Well no matter what Snake did, lots of people were going to die. If he did nothing at all then there would have been a full scale war between America and Mexico/Cuba. A war which apparently was going to be massive.
Not to mention if he doesn't use the remote that president would have hunted him down like a dog and probably caught him quickly. I think he made the right call. Everybody fends for themselves like its the wild west.
Yep, this plays into Snake's decision too, and no doubt, all part of Carpenter's moral dilemma left to the viewer. The consequences of Snake's actions aside, the point here was for humanity to have a clean slate, to bring it together properly and to eviscerate the control of vile and corrupt institutions of government, and the disgusting Nazi police state that was brought into the US, with a lunatic President to go with it. The country became a pure despotic play ground, so it was time to do something about it, in Snake's mind. Let's face it guys, our world today isnt far off from this. Look what is going on with the NSA, laws like the 'patriot act, FISA, the NDAA, indefinite detention, due process being thrown out the window, Constitutional Free Zones 100mph to the border. The DHS is pretty much the SS these day with the ridiculous amount of ammunition purchases recently, 2bn of them, many of them hollow points. Its said this is enough for a 30yr war, and they only used 5mn rounds of ammo a month in Iraq, which we all know was a fraud and based on pure lies and fabricated garbage. The 'we need to keep you safe' and the whole 'Hoax on Terror' is just out of control, using fake ubiquitous boogie men to keep the population in a state of fear, as the police state grows and grows. We have a president right now who has kill lists, drone assassinations (the disposition matrix as its called) and who took one month, through his criminal AG, Holder, to answer Rand Paul's filibuster if it was 'ok to kill US citizens with drones' due to some mere suspicion of something. Then you have the criminal banking cartels of WS who do nothing but gamble 24-7 with mountains of worthless CDOs, interest rate swaps and selling derivative garbage all day that does nothing for the real economy.
Carpenter seen it all coming back in 81 with the first film, and well, its all ready to roll if they ever wanted to. Look up Presidential Directive 51 (PDD51), Rex 84, Operation Cable Splicer, The MIAC Report, etc. There is endless gov documents on all the radical crap these despots have been planning. Its sickening, it really is.
Which leads me to your great point. If Snake gave the device back to the 'President', well...he was going to shut off MX/Cuba anyway, as well as wipe out whatever forces were landing on US shores. So that's 2 countries going 'poof' right there. Considering he was a total megalomaniac, its obvious he would have done it again to another country who dared oppose his policies or wasnt bowing down in some way. The fish rots from the head down and only gets worse, and never gets better. So, Snake gives it back, then people just die slower and more incremental, until the US is the last place on earth with nuclear power and electricity. That why he said at the end: 'America shuts off the 3rd world, it wins. If the third world does it, they win...the more things change, the more they stay the same.' It never ends, and Snake had enough of the back and forth bs.
Yes, sure, his actions would have killed millions. One can say, it wasnt his choice to 'play god' in that scenario, but the President was pretty much a demon of the worst kind. And as someone else pointed out, Stalin took up 60mn. Chinese data shows Mao took out up to 80mn, and 60mn conservatively. Hitler took out a good 22mn. Since 1900, Democide has been the culprit for the most deaths incurred. Know what democide is? That would be: DEATH BY GOVERNMENT. Yep, the #1 killer of all time. Something to think about, indeed.
The level of tyranny you will live under, is the exact amount you'll put up with--Thomas Jefferson
Well no matter what Snake did, lots of people were going to die.
Well no matter what Snake did, lots of people were going to die.
That really doesn't answer the philosophical conundrum that's being posed. Since the entire film is rather tongue-in-check and heavily satirical, I'm not really sure how serious Carpenter was about the ending being taken literally. Carpenter is a clever director and a sly one, and seems to enjoy provoking the audience, which is not altogether bad thing. To what extent Carpenter agrees with Plissken, or whether he is simply trying to provoke the audience is debatable. The film is entertaining escapist fiction, but I think Carpenter missed an opportunity here. I don't have a problem with the ending per se, just how it is set up and presented. The biggest failing of the final scene of the film is that's it presents a false dichotomy, as most works of art that advocated a particular ideology (in this case Liberatarianism / Individualism) usually do. In the two-dimensional fictional world of the film, there are two (and only two) alternatives to choose between, Left/Right wing extremism and the Ubermensch individual. The possibility of collective action for good is simply dismissed, not only as impractical, but as decidedly uncool. I find it fascinating that although, according to the voice-over at the beginning of the film, L.A. is a prison for anyone that disagrees with the government, we are only shown freaks and revolutionaries in L.A. The vast number of "normal people" who must also be incarcerated are only briefly mentioned, and are completely left out of the film's equation. If a large enough of "normal people" got organized, they might at least have a chance of rolling back the system. The point being Plissken, seems incapable or interested in finding any alternative to societal change than those which involve mass murder. Since a single individual alone can never fight the system, and since collective action for good doesn't work, that makes the film nihilistic, does it not? In fact, he cooly lights a "American Spirit" cigarette and seems completely unconcerned about the consequences of his actions, taking no interest and responsibility in them. He's simply too cool to care. Being uninvolved is fine and detachment is fine, as long as you stay uninvolved and detached. When you start making arbitrary decisions that effect the life of millions, however, you can't hide behind a mask of hip, cool, detachment, since you've now involved yourself, and must take responsibility. The question of what rights and responsibilities an individual has is an interesting one. I'm just saying the film deals with it too glibly and lightly to be truly effective. Does Carpenter really takes this ending seriously, or is he playing with our heads?
"Why have you lived? Why have you suffered? Is it all some huge, awful joke?"
Snake had one chance to with a press of the button set the whole world free, of course he took it and so would any moral man. The alternative was death and enslavement. A few million may have died, but more would have died in the war if he had not stopped it and besides, he prevented any nuclear annihilation.
shareThis movie doesn't take itself seriously; I don't think it was trying to make a big point. Screw with our heads a little, sure.
Carpenter said in an interview that Snake is a guy who only cares about his own survival at the end of the day. He doesn't want to hurt anyone, but he doesn't really care about helping anyone either. If he's pressed, he'll do whatever it takes to survive.
Kurt Russell actually wrote the ending, and has made similar comments, calling Snake a fantasy character that appeals to people because he gets to break all the rules we have to conform to.
Kurt and Carpenter discussed the saying "No Man Is An Island" and decided that Snake Plissken was that island. He's the ultimate survivor and doesn't need society.
Snake shuts down the world so he can "Disappear", as he says to Commander Malloy. He saved his own skin, and screwed his enemies in the process. That's basically it.
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
Holy Crap, I though I was the only one who had given this any consideration. I guess I'm not the only one seeing a serious moral dilemma here, which Carpenter shrugs off way too lightly, in my opinion. Basically, you'd have many deaths from planes and trains conking out, that's a given. Plus, a massive increase in traffic deaths as cars go careening to a stop is also likely. The next to go would be people in hospitals, kids on dialysis, etc. I suppose Snake would be doing those on life support and in comas a favor, but most of the rest would simply be executed just as surely as if Snake had pulled the trigger himself. Then, of course, you'd have the long term costs, rioting, disorder, violent crime, criminal gangs, and such.
Here's a question. Seeing as Carpenter, and presumably his alter ego Snake Plisken as well, are ultra-libertarians, how does willfully doing harm to innocent bystanders square with this philosophy? Hasn't Snake self-appointed himself an agent of social change, using his ideology (libertarianism, individualism, what have you) as a justification for whatever "collateral damage" he causes in pursuit of this? What's the difference at this point between him and Cuervo Jones, or Pol Pot or Stalin or Hitler, for that matter? Come to think of it, weren't Hitler's first victims the mentally infirm and deformed of Germany? In Snake's situation, the first victims of his social engineering would likewise be the weakest members of society, who had no part in Cliff Robertson's dictatorship. It hard to believe any good can come from a revolution that's starts with mass executions of children in hospitals on dialysis.
Wouldn't it have been a more interesting and ironic ending if at the end it was Snake who was put in the position of being the potential savior of civilization? Carpenter should have had the Valeria Golina character survive until the end of the movie. It is she, not he, who has possession of the tech kill box, and she holds it up threatening to push the button. Snake has come to realize the devastating unintended consequences of "throwing the switch", and can't allow the woman he loves to do the deed. Cliff Robertson's men have their guns trained on both Snake and Fatima. Snake unexpectedly pulls his own gun on Fatima, telling her he can't allow her to snuff out innocent lives...
The screen fades to black...THE END of "Escape from L.A."
Not that's an interesting and ambiguous ending, much like the end of The Thing and Prince of Darkness. This movie is just a little too smugly certain of itself for me.
"Why have you lived? Why have you suffered? Is it all some huge, awful joke?"
The ending was perfect and there's nothing really to discuss about morality.
On one side you got this oppressive fascist regime, who if you don't obediently follow their strict arbitrary rules, you're thrown into a prison island for life with all the other scum of the earth. Wether you're a rapist, pray to the wrong god or you're a runaway kid.
And on the other hand you got a Resistance who would likely destroy the whole planet if they had a chance. Two extremes.
The people in America aren't free. So i don't see what the problem is in killing these people who already dead or enslaved. People had to die in every scenario. So screw both sides and go down the middle. Send us all back to square one. If that means killing random people driving home from work or planes falling out of the sky. So be it.