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This movie never addressed the Fermi Paradox


This movie never addressed the Fermi Paradox, which is critical when you're discussing aliens.

If the universe is so big (which this movie emphasizes with the, "Awful waste of space" line) and life is so common, then why haven't we seen any aliens whatsoever? Our planet is just 4.5 billion years old, and the universe is 14.5 billion years old. If there are aliens, then they are likely much older and more advanced than we are, meaning they have the technology to travel / communicate from afar.

The Milky Way Galaxy is only 100,000 light years long and 1,000 light years thick. Even if you travel far below the speed of light, you can colonize the whole galaxy in a few million years, which is nothing compared to a billion years. If life was so commonplace, then the aliens would have been all around us.

The movie addresses the fact that the universe is big ("awful waste of space") without acknowledging the other implications of that size (Fermi Paradox).

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[deleted]

Fascinating discussion with lots of strong beliefs on both sides. I think that ultimately all we can really know is that it's the Human Condition to muddle through and what the future brings is unknown to us. Guess time will tell one way or the other. That's all any of us really can know. Meanwhile we always have hope and I like to hope that we aren't alone and maybe , one day or century , we'll get an answer. Don't think I'll be around but maybe one of my descendants will witness it. I find that comforting.

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I find your rhetoric utterly tedious, uninspired and completely old-fashioned.

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well.. read the comments... read newspaper... read a history book...
if i had something to say in an intergalactic council i would order to put earth in quarantine...

quote, Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species, and I realised that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment; but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer on this planet

we are simply not worthy i guess...

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Not sure how you can say the movie doesn't address what is in fact the movie's central plot point -- aliens using ancient technology that isn't even theirs to contact Earth to begin the first steps in introducing humans to the larger web of sentient life in our galaxy.

As to the real-life question of alien life, time and distance make the possibility of encountering alien life very unlikely. While the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, humans only launched their first satellite 60 years ago. We've only been able to detect interstellar radio signals for about 100 years. We've only had electric lights for about 130 years. Our civilization has been such a short part of our planet's existence as to be negligible.

A planet in our area of the Milky Way could have been sending a starship past Earth every 500 years for the last billion, scanning for technology, and they wouldn't have ever found anything.

And we have no idea how long spacefaring civilizations really last. Maybe, assuming they exist, they die out after a couple thousand years. In a 14.5 billion year old universe, our 100-year snapshot of space is such an instantaneous blink of the eye it would be miraculous if we found anything. It's like trying to find Donald Trump by looking at one square inch of randomly-selected Earth territory for one second.

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As to the real-life question of alien life, time and distance make the possibility of encountering alien life very unlikely.


That's just an assumption made on the grounds of some overbearing ideology that I'd suspect forms the majority of your personal beliefs. It's just a way of coloring inside the lines of the common, vaguely respectable view of the cosmos stemming from hundreds of years of scientific materialism.
It is utterly preposterous to suspect that we haven't encountered alien life yet, when we ourselves are alien to anything outside of our biosphere. We have only begun to explore outer space after mere tens of years of creating the technological and political groundwork required to do so (the second really being more of an impediment). Yet, in our time studying biological life (also a mere speck of time) and space we have provided ourselves with enough data to easily and objectively discern that certain organisms can survive and travel in the vacuum of space quite easily, ourselves being a somewhat decent example, though we are not at all biologically designed to do so unlike other organisms, but I won't get into that right now. Also objectively, we can tell that the process of forming or sustaining some basic biotype does not require miraculous conditions, that is, Earth is really not a special planet for what we can tell, for obviously we've observed similar planets not that far from us. While this does not essentially or directly boil down to the possibility (or unlikelihood) of an alien civilization being in our close proximity, which is what I suspect you really meant when you typed "alien life", it's still somewhat telling of the variety of change that is upon both the macrocosm and the microcosms of some of the planets in observable space.
And this is just a brief view on some of the materialistic reasoning coupled with some basic insight into the laws of the cosmos that I haven't really mentioned (since I'd have to dispute much more of the materialistic worldview of blindly idolized "science").
I partially blame your trivial way of looking at "alien life" on a thinking characteristic of looking at the Fermi paradox as being somehow crucial and assuming that we haven't "met" alien life.
I see Fermi paradox as a kind of ideological feitishization of our relative impossibility (or limited possibility) of travelling significant distances in OUTER space, as well as sending or receiving messages through the subjective "void" that is the vacuum of outer space. I don't see that vacuum as a void, unless I am looking at it either from a very personal, psychological, spiritual, but also mythological and historical perspective or indeed, the sort of materialistic perspective required to actually discuss the hardships of travelling in the vacuum. The main issue here is that we ignore the INNER space of the human psyche and all our "venerable" scientists have really done to signify this is come up with very peculiar and admittedly fascinating, though greatly inapplicable mathematical equations, such as those observed in quantum physics.

And we have no idea how long spacefaring civilizations really last. Maybe, assuming they exist, they die out after a couple thousand years. In a 14.5 billion year old universe, our 100-year snapshot of space is such an instantaneous blink of the eye it would be miraculous if we found anything. It's like trying to find Donald Trump by looking at one square inch of randomly-selected Earth territory for one second.


This is exactly the sort of paradoxical argument I am trying my best at correcting.
First of all, there is very little we can do to discover what's really beyond our solar system or even on any near planets we've managed to observe with our ridiculously faint objects and senses unless you entertain my notion that we can through, I guess I'll just name it "esoteric" means, though they are not at all that by themselves.
Second of all, there is an ENORMOUSLY HUGE amount of evidence for all kinds of sentience in this negligible, as you'd have it, amount of spacetime. I simply cannot boil this down to a moment of truth if you will, without first requiring a bit of mental exercise form you. That would just be no fun. But please, amuse me by rolling with the punches and actually be willing to defend your viewpoints and maybe I'll award you with at least a portion of that significant truth. If not, this sort of mental exercise has never hurt anyone.
Third of all, please, if an alien is reading and understanding this, DO NOT find Donald Trump and if you do, please understand that he is a dank meme primarily and a real person only secondly.

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Well done. An amazingly long read that nevertheless kept me reading to the end.

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Ah, seeing how you sort of share my perspective, I should have directed it at the OP.

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If you still believe in what you said in your original post, please find time to read my reply to truther above, it should have been a direct reply to yours.
I never mentioned in it that the movie does indeed address the Fermi Paradox, but frankly, it should be obvious that it does -- albeit in a very insignificant way, and mainly for the purpose of mild entertainment, while it hides certain metaphysical aspects of life through the metaphor of travelling into a wormhole, which is why corny in itself, so I gave it a 5.
Could have been more if the actors and everyone included actually understood that they were conveying a metaphoric meaning (which I'm sure they did, however it is far more illusory than the truth), so that it wasn't so corny, but I've watched it long ago and this type of thinking is very much suppressed by the establishment anyhow to this day, so I'm not even gonna disclose it now, just because of this movie. Not planning to rewatch it either, but I suppose it's good for inspiring discussions like this.

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Some great points but the problem is one of Space and Time.

Space --

The aliens are so far away that either -
- they're not looking at our direction right now
- they looked in our quadrant but say 50,000 years ago when we weren't around and the next pass is another 100,000 years from now so will likely miss us.
- given the expansion of space (and time), it is unlikely they will at the very co-ordinates even if we pin pointed their source
- they are so far away with no way around laws of physics that even if they built wormholes they still need to travel here at least once to setup this end and that will take long time

Time --

- they are looking in our direction right now but the information travel back and forth will take so long that either they've disappeared or we've disappeared by the time communication can really happen
- they looked around a million years ago when we weren't around or will look at us at hundreds of thousands or million years from now (drops in the timescale of the universe of billions of years)
- we looked in their direction now but they're either gone or not yet evolved there to see them



So in short, it is an extraordinary problem of space AND time. This means the likelihood of finding aliens who are intelligent to communicate properly are very slim (but it is still possible).

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I pondered about the Fermi Paradox for a while and my theory is that evolution inevitably leads to complete digitalisation of any intelligence. Meaning that advanced species eventually convert into pure energy and mainly exist in simulations and nodes all over the universe. The technology for all that can be tiny in scale and therefore cannot be observed by us, yet. So we are probably crowded with aliens but they live in other "dimensions". We will get there if we don't destroy us first...

You are not alone.

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There aren't advanced civilizations because all advanced civilization transcend to a higher dimension, that is invisible to our senses. Would you prefer to live in a place where you have a physical body, you have to eat, poop, sleep and die or move to a place where you don't have to deal with such trivial matters.

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I really wonder what happen if someone discovered ironclad, mathematic, repeatable, evidence of intelligent life.

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[deleted]

100 years ago the idea of walking around, talking to people on the other side of the world by holding a small rectangular box to ones ear might be equally poo poo'd.

200 years ago the idea of flooding a room with artificial light by flipping a switch on the wall was incomprehensible to most people.

Why does anyone profess to know the nature of things that will certainly be discovered in years to come, things that would astonish us all if we were privy to their nature.

As has often been said, we know very little of the workings of the universe. To say anything is impossible is an invitation to be proven wrong.



Oh what a falling off was there.

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Perhaps we might be better off if we took the position that Ellie took with the kid in the final scene. She asks him if he thinks there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.

The kid says "I don't know."

"That's a good answer," was her response.

Is there? I don't know. And neither does anyone else.

The Fermi Paradox does not prove anything. It simply asks a very good question.

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You're assuming that civilizations/species have a constant, linear, upward trend in development, and never go extinct. Bad assumptions.

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An alien civ doesn't necessarily have to destroy itself or suffer an extinction-level event for us not to hear from them. They could very well have subsumed into a virtual existence or stagnated into oblivion from boredom.

What perplexes me is that we haven't discovered evidence of Von Neumann machine activity. Complex, self-replicating machines sent out like dandelion seeds to spread across the galaxy, eating matter to duplicate themselves to spread further. An alien civ would most likely use such tech to either spread their own civilization, or snuff out competitors.

The Fermi Paradox, very briefly touched upon in this movie, is only a best guess, with uncertainty multiplied by each variable in its equation. Sure there's a LOT of space out there, but if gamma burst events happen as frequently as it looks is possible, any advanced civ might have gotten killed by a nearby supernova before we did find them.

Either way, I'm still optimistic, and Contact is still one of my favorite movies.

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