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411mania lists the 10 worst episodes of Supernatural (so far). Do you agree?

posted 7 years ago by Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020)
42 replies | jump to latest

From 411mania
-------------------

"10. Alpha and Omega (S11E23)

They wrote the situation to be so big they had no way how to end it (...) so they simply ended things with a conversation (...) The result was a very weak season finale that this current season is only just now recovering from.

9. Clap Your Hands If You Believe (S06E09)

(...) My problem with fairies on this show is that it’s just too silly. (...) There’s no way to make them a believable threat to anyone, especially experienced monster hunters like Sam and Dean Winchester.

8. Hibbing 911 (S10E08)

(...) Kim Rhodes is a good actress but (...) here (...) she just plays the hardened veteran to Donna’s breezy naive cop (...) Should be a great team-up, but it ends up being bland and boring. It’s also yet another vampire story and those haven’t been interesting in five seasons or more.

7. #THINMAN (S09E15)

(...) The ninth season was particularly full of angst (...) So naturally, it makes sense that we’d bring back those lovable fake ghost hunters in to lighten things up a bit. Or, you know, we could turn one of them into a jerk and breakup the Ghostfacers forever.

6. The Slice Girls (S07E13)

(...) This one actually features Amazonian women as the villains (...) The Amazons haven’t appeared on the show since either, and it’s probably they’re easy to kill. (...) This episode earns the designation of being one of the most forgettable in the series.

5. Dog Dean Afternoon (S09E05)

(...) It’s disappointing because Jensen Ackles is great at making himself look like an idiot for comedy. Yellow Fever is one of the best episodes of the series and it features him screaming at a cat. So with a premise like this, you have the chance to be hilarious and instead it’s just…not. It’s barely funny and when it is, the moments don’t last long.

4. Rock Never Dies (S12E07)

#NotMyLucifer (...) Look, I’m sure Springfield is a fine actor in other projects and I like “Jesse’s Girl” well enough. But it’s time to accept the fact that he was miscast (...) Lucifer is by far my favorite villain on this show so to see him reduced to this was disheartening.

3. The One You’ve Been Waiting For (S12E05)

(...) introducing Hitler just to kill him off immediately was stupid. He’s one of the most evil men to ever live. Make him a joke if you must, other stories have, but at least explore that. A superpowered Hitler is at least more interesting than angel politics, Leviathans or fairies.

2. Bitten (S08E04)

(...) It’s a found footage episode of Supernatural that’s basically Chronicle with werewolves. Yes, at first glance that seems like a cool idea, but it’s not. We follows some of the most unlikable people and Sam and Dean make a cameo, at best, for the majority of the episode.

1. Bloodlines (S09E20)

(...) This is the spinoff that wasn’t (...) Sam and Dean are barely in it, because hey, it’s about setting up a different show that doesn’t involve them. The problem is the characters that are in it are terribly written and uninteresting."

FULL ARTICLE AT THE SOURCE: https://411mania.com/movies/a-bloody-good-time-the-ten-worst-episodes-of-supernatural-so-far/

Do you agree with the list?
What do you think about these episodes?
What are your least favorite SPN episodes?

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

I'll start :)

Alpha and Omega: I've talked about this episode so much. Yes, not my favorite and what I consider the official warning that I wasn't going to like season 12, but no episode featuring Amara can make my Worst List. I luv her!

Clap Your Hands If You Believe: I enjoyed this one. You sit in the dark, and you feel the loss. Banging Patchouli lol.

Hibbing 911: was just okay. The hunt didn't really make sense to me because they didn't explain the carnivore vampires but Donna and Jody had their moments.

#THINMAN: didn't care for the misogynistic slant of the human monsters (killing a woman because she won't date you) but the Cain!Dean storyline is one of my favorite things on this entire show. Watching Dean slowly turn into a Knight of Hell was amazing and Jensen rocked it. The way he kills one of the thinman impersonators was a quintessential Cain!Dean moment. It would be followed by the iconic "Look at me, bitch" kill from Alex Annie Alexis Ann. Psycho!Dean is my jam!

The Slice Girls: didn't like the Amazons, or Dean's daughter, but it had great Dean moments, great brother moments with Sam teasing Dean and anytime Dean gets some loving is cause for celebration for me.

Dog Dean Afternoon: didn't care for the MOTW or the talking dogs but I loved Dean in this one and Sam is often funny in the episodes where he has to keep an eye on Dean because Dean is infected with something, cursed, de-aged, or mentally turned into a dog. Woof!

Rock Never Dies: I loved the Sam and Dean part of this one. The cucumber water. The boys in leather. Eh, I'm easy like that. Although I was beyond done with Lucifer at that point, I liked Rick.

The One You’ve Been Waiting For: the episode was okay. It took a wrong turn when Lucifer started talking but I was already against the idea of featuring him on the show when the spoilers hit so... I liked that Dean was able to milk this kill for a while.

Bitten: First episode I enjoyed from season 8. Sam and I weren't on speaking terms in the first half of season 8 and I welcomed an episode that didn't focus on the contrived brother angst.

Bloodlines: anyone wondering what happened to season 12, remember who wrote that one.

[–] Strannger (2007) 7 years ago

Bloodlines was terrible. Gangster monsters sounds terrible in and of itself. Who ok'd that?

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

Jeremy Carver was showrunner at the time and I know the CW was behind the project. Mark Pedowitz, the CW boss really wanted an SPN spinoff and even after Bloodlines failed, he was still talking about trying for another spinoff for a while.
He hasn't mentioned it in a minute. Maybe he finally understands that the elements that made SPN successful are not that easy to duplicate.

[–] Strannger (2007) 7 years ago

Very wise words. Lightning doesn't strike twice. I know Carter did some good episodes but you think he would go with the family element or maybe Roofus and Bobby the earlier years.

[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 7 years ago

10. Alpha and Omega: Hm. I'll have to go through my own list and see if it would make the bottom 10. Something tells me that it'll be edged out by other episodes, but it'd definitely be near the bottom.

9. I'm a little surprised that Clap Your Hands is on there. I quite like that episode.

8. Hibbing 911: I can see why Jody was off putting to some in that episode, because it's like they were trying to turn her into a cranky Bobby for some reason, but bottom 10? I don't think so.

7. #THINMAN: is definitely in my top 10 worst episodes. Just need to figure out where.

6. Slice Girls: For a MotW episode, the idea was not good considering it was never brought up again, and Dean had a kid; it turned out to be a monster, and then it died, but bottom 10? I don't think it was that bad.

5. Dog Dean Afternoon: I found this one cringeworthy at times, but again, I'm not sure it'd make the bottom 10 for me, because I do think that Jensen saved it.

4. Rock Never Dies: I'm not sure if it'd make my bottom 10. Parts of it annoyed me, but I tend to think of this as one to forget instead of one to hate. I guess maybe the bar is set so low for season 12 compared to previous seasons, and it surpassed that in having Sam and Dean act like Sam and Dean, and it had both of them present for the entire episode, so it doesn't seem as bad as one of the bottom 10 episodes when in previous seasons, it would have been?

3. TOYBWF: I certainly wasn't waiting for Hitler on this show. The episode itself was okay. The characters were in character, and there was a decent fight scene. But Hitler? I think if they'd just made it a random high ranking Thule member the others were trying to bring back, it would've been a good episode.

2. Bitten: Meh. I'm neither here nor there with Bitten. I thought it was better than Paper Moon.

1. Bloodlines: I honestly don't consider this an episode of Supernatural. The fans hated this episode, the series didn't get picked up, and now that Dabb's in charge of Supernatural, he's decided to change the feel of Supernatural to be more like Bloodlines, I think, it's just that instead of rich, dynastic, monster families, we have the BMoL.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

"4. Rock Never Dies:
I guess maybe the bar is set so low for season 12 compared to previous seasons, and it surpassed that in having Sam and Dean act like Sam and Dean, and it had both of them present for the entire episode, so it doesn't seem as bad as one of the bottom 10 episodes when in previous seasons, it would have been?"

Oh my God, get out of my head. That's exactly the way I see RND. When you're grading on the season 12 curve, RND gets extra points because Sam and Dean are in it and acting like themselves.

"3. TOYBWF: I certainly wasn't waiting for Hitler on this show"

I loved this so much! And I agree that they should have replaced Hitler by a high ranking member of the Thule. I also think they shouldn't have used the POTUS in LOTUS.

"1. Bloodlines: I honestly don't consider this an episode of Supernatural. The fans hated this episode, the series didn't get picked up, and now that Dabb's in charge of Supernatural, he's decided to change to the feel of Supernatural to be more like Bloodlines, I think, it's just that instead of rich, dynastic, monster families, we have the BMoL."

The second I saw Toni Bevell in Alpha & Omega, I knew that Dabb was reviving Bloodlines. He couldn't get the green light for his spinoff so he decided to turn SPN into what he wanted Bloodlines to be. Somebody save us from this nightmare.

[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 7 years ago

" Somebody save us from this nightmare."

One can only hope. I'm not sure if the ratings are bad enough yet, but they're worse than they were in season 7, and the show got rid of Gamble (Sure, some of that is to be expected given the age of the show, but a drop like the one we've seen in recent weeks is to my mind the fans telling TPTB that they are not happy no matter how much praise TPTB are getting from social media). I guess it depends on how unhappy the cast is and how vocal they become about it as to whether or not we'll see a change in time to save the show. Sometimes those fans leave, and they don't come back, because they don't know about things like changes in who is running the show.

[–] Bella-UK (1288) 7 years ago

For me, I think on that list Bloodlines was the worst. I get the writer's points above but Sam and Dean were not meant to be in it because it was a through show where they wouldn't be involved with it. So them not being in it so much didn't bother me. It was the actors in general that let Bloodlines down. They didn't have any chemistry that J2 have which turned me basically off it.

I was underwhelmed with the S10 finale, that such huge characters just dissolved into smoke up into heaven making up thinking it was just a sibling tiff.

Clap your hands, at first for me felt silly, but the more I watched it I found it quite funny in places. I can now see Fairies being annoying to the boys, and I loved the fact that Sam couldn't see them when Dean could. This was the magic of Ben Edlund who I now really miss on this show.

Bitten I did enjoy the story behind it, and the drama behind the kid's lives which many never really commented on, just the shaky camcorder recordings which didn't bother me at all. I took it for what it was, amateur photography.

Rock never dies, was a scary episode and I felt for Sam knowing Lucifer was around. I got what the story again was about.

I never liked the Ghostface, so I get the writers dislike for this one. But I did like the way Sam and Dean escaped. Using their initiative.

Hibbing 911 was a bit boring, but wouldn't put it in as my worst.

Same for Dog Dean Afternoon, because it has some quality scenes, mainly by Jensen.

I liked The Slice Girls and the Amazons a lot, again not in my least top ten.

The Hitler one was crap, and very corny, probably my list favorite on the author's list. And agree with her.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

"For me, I think on that list Bloodlines was the worst.'

It's kind of amazing that the writer of such a universally panned episode is now in charge of the entire show :(

[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 7 years ago

My 10 worst episodes of Supernatural:

10. Defending Your Life: I'm not a fan of pagan gods on this show. Plus, I thought that the reason for why Dean was on trial was just stupid. Though I did like seeing Jo come back for an episode.

9. Time for a Wedding: I'd forgotten about this episode and probably with good reason. Becky was the fan avatar in this show for a while, and what she did in this episode to Sam was so wrong and so over the top.

8. Fan Fiction: I get second-hand embarrassment from watching this episode. I generally don't like to feel that way when I watch something, and DemonDean was cut short for this. If they'd cured him in the 200th episode, I think that would've been a more fitting tribute to the show and fans (For a comparison look at Point of No Return, the 100th episode. Dean killing Zachariah was epic, and they could've done parallels between DemonDean being cured and Dean choosing not to be Michael's vessel).

7. Paper Moon: This is the episode we got immediately after DemonDean was cured. The anvils were plentiful with this episode, and it was a big let down overall, because I didn't particularly care whether or not we saw Kate the werewolf again.

6. Remember the Titans: I'm not a big fan of the pagan gods, or at least not the way they're portrayed on this show. They get them wrong. They're silly or boring depending on the episode. There's very little urgency in those episodes for some reason.

5. Fallen Idols: Paris Hilton (Imagine me shaking my head as I type that). That was a big strike, but I don't think that was the biggest strike against this episode for me. I think the conversation where Sam shoves the blame for going with Ruby on Dean was far worse than even Paris Hilton being in an episode.

4. #THINMAN: I don't like being treated like I'm unintelligent, and the heavy-handed anvils in this episode did that. They were so bad that I found them cringeworthy. They made me feel embarrassed for all involved, including the fans. I couldn't get past those to see anything of merit that might have also been in the episode.

3. Bloodlines: As I said in my previous response, I don't consider this episode to be part of Supernatural, and I guess if I think that, then it has to go on my 10 worst episodes list. ETA: (Basically, I don't think this deserves to be on a list of Supernatural episodes is what I guess I mean. You'd think that'd make it number one, but as it's such a non-entity for me, I've made it third).

2. LOTUS: This didn't feel like an episode of Supernatural either. It felt like Bloodlines if I'm being honest (Just with a Lucifer we've never seen as the lead), but I think it was worse than Bloodlines, because instead of having our heroes be shown as the experienced hunters they are, they were shown needing the help of the BMoL, who were only too ready with something that negated the urgency of season 5, and then they were shown to be incompetent by being caught at the end. It also started this nephilim storyline and is the catalyst for why Mary presumably decided to start working for the BMoL. There are big problems with both of those story lines, and I'm putting the blame for them on this episode.

1. Slumber Party. From the plot and dialogue to the graphics and the acting from everyone involved (even Jensen and Jared noticeably phoned it in), I despise this episode.

Dishonorable mentions: We Happy Few (Primarily for what they had Lucifer doing at the start of the episode - hiding out in Sam's room, blaring loud music, and acting like a petulant teenager), Heartache (It didn't make the top 10 even though it's a pagan god episode, because I give Jensen credit for directing this uninspired script), Red Sky at Morning (I just never liked this episode), Freaks and Geeks (not really a fan of Krissy, and this episode had a whole group of Krissys), and Man's Best Friend with Benefits.

ETA: Dishonorable mention: I totally forgot about Alpha & Omega. It was by far the worst season finale we've seen on this show.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

Yep, agree that Defending Dean is among the worst episodes of the show. That whole trial was just silly, and it looked like Jared struggled with some of the material, not that I blame him.

Fallen Idols also made my Worst 10 list. I didn't even mind Paris and Lord knows I'm not a fan. I was already bored out of my mind with the hunt and then Sam had the nerve to blame Dean for Ruby and I was just done.

Remember the Titans is one that I always forget. The only thing remember is Dean saying "We're legacies." Everything else was zzzzzz.

#THINMAN was super anvilicious. I remember that now. We talked about it a lot on the old forum.

LOTUS was a terrible midseason finale. The only part I liked was "Take Five" playing while Ketch was rolling up on the scene.

Slumber Party aired on E! yesterday I believe. Not a great one but I don't hate it because I like Zeke. The moment where Sam and Dean are possessed by the witch give me second-hand embarrassment though, and that's how I know J and J were not into that scene at all lol.

I agree with your dishonorable mentions minus Red Sky at Morning, one of my favorite SPN episodes ever.

[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 7 years ago

"I agree with your dishonorable mentions minus Red Sky at Morning, one of my favorite SPN episodes ever."

Really? :)

I guess what I don't like about that episode was the ghost summoning part that culminated in a big splash. I can't really shake the feeling I've had ever since I first watched it that it was a bit of a weak episode. Compared to later seasons, I know that's not really fair, but it's stuck with me.

In hindsight, I do like how Castiel is mentioned in the ghost summoning part. They obviously had no plans to bring him into the show at that point, it's just something they probably thought was cool to put into the spell, but I find it funny.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

Yes, really ;)

RSAM is an unpopular episode but I absolutely love it. I'm a HUGE Bela fan. I really liked the whole backstory of the brothers and the ghost ship. I liked the ghost summoning in the rain, Dean and Bela snarking at each other (Jensen and Lauren are amazing together), the boys getting paid for once, Gertrude Case and her massive crush on Sam, the fancy party, Dean eating canapés while Bela was passed out in his arms, Dean in a tux stealing the hand of glory.

I've rewatched it so many times. Red Sky and Tall Tales are my go to feel good episodes. I also like Bugs and Route 666, other very unpopular episodes, but I hate the celebrated French Mistake and think the much talked about season 4 is an abomination so go figure :)

[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 7 years ago

Yeah, I don't mind Bugs. I think Bugs had some important conversations between Dean and Sam in relation to their Dad, so it gave us more insight into both of them, and I think the way the sun magically comes up in a few seconds flat at the end is hilarious. I laugh every time it happens. In Route 666, I like the background we get on Dean. I like the way they get rid of the ghost truck by doing something outside the box and have it drive over consecrated ground. I also liked Cassie.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

Yes to all of this and lmao at the sun coming up a few minutes after the spray cans stopped working. It was too much, but the rest of the episode had a lot going for it.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

My 10 least favorite.

1. Bloodlines (9.20)
Nothing to do with SPN. A brand new show... that I wouldn't watch.

2. Freaks and Geeks (8.18)
Krissy. Her friends, her life, her issues.

3. Angel Heart (10.20)
Claire. Claire's mother. The entire thing.

4. Fallen Idols (5.05)
Sam blaming Dean for Ruby. That hunt.

5. Torn and Frayed (8.10)
All the Samandriel torture. The writing for Sam and Dean.

6. Exile on Main St. (6.01)
Where do I even start?

7. The Raid (12.14)
None of the decisions the leads made felt organic but hey, gotta make that BMOL storyline work somehow
and have Dean be the one who swallows his very valid feelings to accomodate someone else. Bleh.

8. What's Up, Tiger Mommy? (8.02)
The entire auction. Crowley betting the moon.

9. Family Remains (4.11)
Not even the iconic Dean post-Hell confession at the end could save this one.

10. All Dogs Go to Heaven (6.08)
Zzzz.

Some that almost made the list:
- Defending Your Life (7.04): the trial was silly and the whole episode had a cheap feel to it. Jared even seemed to struggle with some of the material, and I say that as someone who appreciates his performance. Sometimes, you get the feeling that an actor has a hard time with certain lines because they're so clunky and just, not well-written. Well...
- Man's Best Friend with Benefits (8.15): the less said about this episode the better.
- The Bad Seed (11.03): Castiel shivering in his blankie.
- We Happy Few (11.22): Lucifer locking himself in Sam's room listening to loud rock music.
- LOTUS (11.08): dumb and dumber sitting around like ducks waiting to get arrested.

[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 7 years ago

I forgot all about Angel Heart (although I think for me, I disliked Claire more in The Hunter Games. Her hating Dean and wanting to have people kill him was idiotic to me given what'd happened in the previous episode).

What's Up, Tiger Mommy? That auction scene was awful, and that's the way I tend to think of pagan gods on this show (sorry to keep hammering that home, but when pagan gods are on, I feel like I'm watching an episode of Charmed instead of Supernatural).

The Raid is definitely a contender I forgot about because it's so new.

I agree with all of your almost made the list episodes. The Bad Seed didn't do anything for me either, but again poor Jensen got stuck directing it.

I quite liked Family Remains. I think if you're going to have people as the monsters, as this season seems to be doing, then Family Remains was a better/ scarier way to do it than what we've seen in season 12.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

"That auction scene was awful, and that's the way I tend to think of pagan gods on this show (sorry to keep hammering that home, but when pagan gods are on, I feel like I'm watching an episode of Charmed instead of Supernatural)."

I don't dare ask you what you thought of Hammer of the Gods. * runs for cover *

[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 7 years ago

Hm. Hammer of Gods is a little different for me for three reasons. Lucifer. Gabriel. And while that episode was offensive to some because Lucifer was shown as stronger than some gods that people still worship today, I'm more than all right with Lucifer wiping the gods out in that episode, or I would be if he'd gotten all of them (except for Kali, who probably shouldn't have been there. Just replace her with Venus if she was supposed to be Gabriel's ex-love interest), and then we never would have had to have any of the other gods we've had since that episode. But again with the gods they showcased in that episode, they got the mythology surrounding some of those gods wrong, which was another bone of contention with followers of some of those deities.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

True. Hammer of the Gods was about a lot more than just the Pagan Gods. Gabriel had a big part in it. He decided to help the brothers and he faced off with Lucifer. The episode also introduced us to Pestilence. I liked Hammer of the Gods, for the brothers, the archangels and Kali but there were so many problems with the portrayal of the gods.

[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 7 years ago

Oh, I should say that I do love Scarecrow for a pagan god episode.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

One of my all-time favorite MOTW and episode, period!

[–] Bella-UK (1288) 7 years ago

I liked Family Remains a lot. It was dead spooky and scary and to think it was a human causing all the trouble and not a Ghost. There was a lot about that episode that stood out for me. The story was well told, and you can see the family are sh** scared and they lost a family member too. Dean having to go downstairs that must have been terrifying.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

I didn't mind that the monsters were human. I just found the episode boring, visually unappealing, and I disliked everybody in it save for the brothers and the child.

[–] cassiopeia (528) 7 years ago

!. Bloodlines but I agree with some it wasn't really an episode of SPN. It was just the worst hour of television ever.

2. Route 666 racist monster truck. Timeline issues. The first ep ever written by the Duo and Kripke never let them write another.

3. Time for a Wedding again Dabb's view of fans. All Samgirls want to see Sam bound, gagged and sexually assaulted and hilarious sidelined Dean.

4. Rock Never Dies.. again Dabb/Berens dissing fans with several rants about how fleeting and shallow we are.

5-7 The last 3 episodes of S11. What the Hell!! Jensen and Jared were right the season should have ended with Don't Call Me Shurley.

8. Man's Best Friend with Benefits.. Holy Mother of Chuck was that bad. On the same level as Bloodlines for me. A black woman is a white mans dog? Just no!!

9. Things We Left Behind...only because we were saddled with Claire.

10. The One You've Been Waiting For....it wasn't the one I was waiting for.

Clap Your Hands?? Sacrilege!! One of the funniest episodes of the show. I liked Bitten although it wasn't everyone's taste. Thinman was saved by Batman and Superman. Even Jared was disappointed in Dog Dean. Evidently the script came off much funnier.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

"It was just the worst hour of television ever."

Lol, and now we're living in Bloodlines, the Supernatural edition.

I forget that Dabb and Loflin wrote Time for a Wedding. I loved Jared in this episode so much but the Becky stuff was an unnecessary jab at the fans.

"Rock Never Dies.. again Dabb/Berens dissing fans with several rants about how fleeting and shallow we are."

I also remember the episode where the writers dissed the People's Choice Awards after the fans won one for the show. 0.4, here we come lol!

"The last 3 episodes of S11. What the Hell!! Jensen and Jared were right the season should have ended with Don't Call Me Shurley."

I kind of checked out for a bit after the season 11 finale. Jared and Jensen talked about the finale and the last episodes? I've seen a lot of comments implying that they didn't agree with the direction and demanded a few changes. Can you tell me what you know?

"A black woman is a white mans dog? Just no!!"

And a sex toy who wears a collar and calls said white man Master. I just... No!

"Things We Left Behind...only because we were saddled with Claire."

It had great Dean moments though!!! ;D

"I liked Bitten although it wasn't everyone's taste."

I liked it too. Anything that gave me a break from Sam didn't look and he's having an attitude about Dean not actually being dead.
* slowly counts to three and exhales * Aaaand I'm back.

Dog Dean, I remember the Js not liking the talking dogs at all. Jared might have apologized for it on twitter or something like that.

Clap Your Hands isn't a favorite of mine but it was enjoyable enough. It had good moments and many funny ones. It was worth it, just for the "you feel the loss" line.

[–] cassiopeia (528) 7 years ago

This was reported on Fangasm while the J's were in Europe. They felt the last three episodes should have been scrapped. Along with script issues where they switched lines the last three episodes seemed like a nightmare for them as well as the fans. I know it was widely reported that the cast and Dabb conferenced on the phone (the PHONE!!) trying to fix the problems of the finale. That mess was the best everyone could come up with.
Andrew Dabb was the head writer and had been for a year and half during S10 and 11 (not to mention had been with the show for 7 years) . Somewhere before Red Meat was written (probably early fall) Dabb knew he was going to be taking over the show midseason even though it hadn't been announced. Which is why he cowrote the ep so that Berens could work on the mess that was We Happy Few. He had ample time and knew very well where Carver had intended for the storyline to go. Instead he scrapped the entire season so he could tell a different story. Regardless of what it did to the show or how the fans might feel. So yes .4's seem to be in our future.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

Thank you, Cassiopeia. I'll check out the Fangasm site. CluelessDrifter just provided this link to last year's JIB Con (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6HOPOtEijw) where Jensen is talking about the actors conferencing with the writers on the phone for a long time. What a mess this all is. Someone needs to intervene. Do we know where Carver intended the initial storyline to go?

[–] cassiopeia (528) 7 years ago

I think the original intention was for the story to continue into S12. The Empty, Amara's hold over Dean, whatever Sam's role was supposed to be in defeating her was supposed to be a two year arc. I can't believe Carver meant for Dean to do couples counseling while Sam fetches water.

Carver is still listed as Exec Producer. Maybe he will take Singers role next season. Maybe he can add a little more creativity (and heart) to the season.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

That would have been a more interesting story. I know Carver is listed as exec producer but I wonder if he's really involved in season 12. One, he was busy with Frequency and two, how awkward for him to sit there while Dabb destroys his entire vision. I don't know what's going on in that writers room.

[–] cassiopeia (528) 7 years ago

I don't think he is involved at all. But seeing his name in the credits always gives me calm. I know his seasons had it's issues but at least he swung for the fences and the brothers (at odds or on the same page) were interacting with each other in meaningful ways.

Yes it has to be frustrating to watch Dabb ingnore the one aspect of the show that everyone has spent years telling us is the #1 priority of Supernatural..... Brothers! If the show isn't about Sam and Dean the show fails. How does Dabb not understand that?

It sounds like there was a bit of a revolt in the writers room last spring when Dabb trotted out his plan for Lucifer to be the main focus of the season. I've also noticed that Berens isn't doing the previews with Dabb anymore. I wonder if that means he is moving on from SPN. His contract would be up this season.

And not Sam and Dean sneaking out of gym class because it was boring....

https://68.media.tumblr.com/3ee57f39e0f2e9ae26f955ed1a4d9802/tumblr_onbc854jXF1tnayszo1_500.jpg

[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 7 years ago

"It sounds like there was a bit of a revolt in the writers room last spring when Dabb trotted out his plan for Lucifer to be the main focus of the season."

That's interesting. Do you have a link? I may have to revise some of my thoughts on a few things if I'm provided proof. At the moment, I'm thinking that some of the dialogue from Rock Never Dies (manager:lets basically keep repackaging the old and selling it to die hard fans we know will stay with us vs. Lucifer: I dislike retreading old story lines, like Lucifer/ YEDs/ psy kids, etc., and if that's really want the fans want to see, then I want entirely new fans, because the ones we have want things to stay the same with this show, which I consider rerun after rerun after rerun) is maybe Berens tattling on Dabb (Lucifer) vs Singer (manager). After some thought, I realized, the 'sticking to a formula' is definitely Singer's M.O. But if Dabb came up with bringing Lucifer back and the other writers didn't like the idea, and if Berens isn't renewing his contract, then maybe Lucifer is Berens/other writers and the manager is Dabb/Singer, and it's kind of hilarious that Berens has Lucifer kill the manager and that it got past Dabb to end up on our screens.

[–] cassiopeia (528) 7 years ago

That's going to take some research to find the interveiw. But Dabb did admit that the writers weren't all that excited about the storyline. I'm on it.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

"Yes it has to be frustrating to watch Dabb ingnore the one aspect of the show that everyone has spent years telling us is the #1 priority of Supernatural..... Brothers! If the show isn't about Sam and Dean the show fails. How does Dabb not understand that?"

He's like every arrogant new showrunner who comes in and wants to tell his story regardless of what happened before. Carver was the exact same when he started. He gave Sam didn't look, Amelia and focused on a secondary relationship to the point that some people convinced themselves it was more than it was. Carver redeemed himself but it took him two extremely messy seasons. I guess we have to wait until Dabb can't take the dragging anymore and is forced to course correct like Caver was.

"It sounds like there was a bit of a revolt in the writers room last spring when Dabb trotted out his plan for Lucifer to be the main focus of the season."

Really? I really missed the entire thing. I was so disenchanted with Alpha & Omega and what I knew the direction of season 12 was going to be based on the tone of the episode (Sam and Dean who?) that I completely checked out. Did the writers complain? What happened? I mentioned before that we don't hear from Singer anymore and that a lot of what happened this season seems to go against views he's expressed about the show. What's going on there?

"I've also noticed that Berens isn't doing the previews with Dabb anymore. I wonder if that means he is moving on from SPN. His contract would be up this season."

Interesting...

"And not Sam and Dean sneaking out of gym class because it was boring....
https://68.media.tumblr.com/3ee57f39e0f2e9ae26f955ed1a4d9802/tumblr_onbc854jXF1tnayszo1_500.jpg";

LMAO! Love this :DDD

[–] cassiopeia (528) 7 years ago

Carver had the time to course correct. There was no end in sight after he signed on. I don't think that Dabb is going to have much past next season if he can't find his footing this year. I really believe that Warner Bros and the CW have him on a short leash. They can't want this show to limp out with a whimper. I can't see the J's wanting that either.
Carver dropped Amelia like a hot rock after the first half of S8. Dabb must see how unpopular Lucifer, the BMOL's and Mary are but he seems to be doubling down on those story lines. Mark P is now a series regular, the Brits and Mary are going to be the big crescendo.
At least Carver focused his seasons on the brothers. Dabb just takes them for granted. A few scenes to appease the fans and then back to the story he wants to tell. We've had one episode that was just about Sam and Dean (with a little Rowena assist) out of now 17 episodes. Not a winning formula as far as I can see.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

"At least Carver focused his seasons on the brothers."

In his first seasons had them at each other's throats, but a lot of the story focused on them and their relationship.

"Dabb must see how unpopular Lucifer, the BMOL's and Mary are but he seems to be doubling down on those story lines. Mark P is now a series regular, the Brits and Mary are going to be the big crescendo."

That's why I'm not sure that the WB has Dabb on a short leash (YET), but after a full season of complaints and rock bottom ratings, maybe they'll summon him to the principal's office lol. Wishful thinking on my part. I do remember that the combined pressure of fan complaints, critics questions and J2 expressing their discontent had a positive effect on Carver's showrunning. I need for J2 to demand a producer credit before they sign on the dotted line again. They have more than earned a seat on the table as co-creators of this show and SPN would greatly benefit from them having a bigger input in the storylines. These guys have done this longer than ANYONE except Singer. I think they should have a say in what goes on and especially what the finale season and final moments look like.

" We've had one episode that was just about Sam and Dean (with a little Rowena assist) out of now 17 episodes."

And it was the best one imo.

[–] Beanie (6) 7 years ago

I agree with:

Clap your hands if you believe
Bloodlines
Bitten
Thinman

Didn't mind the other 6 episodes at all.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

Clap your hands if you believe: was it the "fight the fairies!" :D

[–] Beanie (6) 7 years ago

I did not care for many episodes of season 6 even before I knew about the 'Sam without a soul' storyline. (except for 'Weekend at Bobby's'....I love Rufus and yes, it broke my heart when he died that same season.)

But for me, too many attempts at humor didn't work in Clap your Hands.

My top 10 worst episodes of all time;

Long Distance Call
Thinman
Clap your Hands if you Believe
Slumber Party
Swan Song
Houses of the Holy
Criss Angel is a Douchebag
Red Meat
Mannequin 3: The Reckoning
Bloodlines/Bitten

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

"Criss Angel is a Douchebag" almost made my list for the boring hunt and Sam deciding to follow Ruby.
So did "Mannequin 3: The Reckoning". Just boring and depressing.

[–] Icarus (78) 7 years ago

I don't agree with any except Bloodlines and Thinman, I really enjoyed Clap your hands, made me laugh. I think there are far worse episodes, lots of the horrible Sam and vet lady eps - The Purge and although I know lots understood and loved it but I would put Swan Song on my list of least favourites. There have been so many episodes that it is hard to remember ones that have just faded into the background on whether they were any good or not!

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 7 years ago

There's definitely a consensus around Bloodlines. The Purge was such a fun episode until the end came and ruined everything.