MovieChat Forums > Westworld (2016) Discussion > WHY?!

WHY?!

posted 2 years ago by Jeepster (1035)
14 replies | jump to latest

Why did “C” betray Bernard & Stubbs when all they wanted was to help & they proved it by what they have done. Bernard unearthed Maeve the “weapon” he promised “C” & Stubbs helped get them out of the city. Big deal so she had an idea that they were hosts & were hiding it.

Use your common sense, why would Bernard go through all the trouble to prep Maeve if she was scared of him or Stubbs killing everyone outright? Why be suspicious of what Bernard may have been planning to do with Maeve when in all that time he could’ve done something but he didn’t. So he’s going to wait until she’s reactivated to kill everyone? Think woman, THINK!

But why would she in turn help put the brain into Maeve if she was so damn paranoid about everything? Yes, YES I know, I know, she may have known something about her daddy, yeah ok. BUT Why would she have trusted her to tell her anything & to kill the enemy host no less & not her & all of them? That didn’t make any kind of sense.

She proved more amicable to a unproven commodity than the guy(s) who wanted nothing but to help all of them out. “Hey you’re ok (Maeve) but on the other hand you POS (Lowe & Stubbs) you’re going to die….STILL”.

Hope she does right by Bernard & Stubbs but once you put a bullet into somebody how do you do that? Sheesh.

[–] joi2049 (5494) 2 years ago

This entire episode was what I feared it would be after watching the PREVIEWS ... all about Caleb and this FAMILY that we've barely met and hardly know ... instead of it mostly being about the MAIN characters that we ALREADY KNOW and care about.

We meet Frankie as a child, then she's grown up and is in this REBEL gang, and why should we feel anything or care about this character ... who's taken up an entire HOUR of the 3 HOURS that we had left until the Season Finale ... when that time could have been better spent exploring whatever CHRISTINA's role is supposed to be???

It's another DETOUR that we've taken, that leaves one with the impression that this isn't even the SAME SHOW that we're watching anymore, but some kind of a SEQUEL or SPIN OFF (that's also ripped off scenes from another FILM called TRIANGLE).

Ever see that movie??? It's also about a character who also encounters several different versions of herself like Caleb did tonight.

Needless to say, I'm EXTREMELY disappointed with this episode and feel that it was a BIG WASTE of TIME in regard to moving the story forward.

😒

[–] WhereIsRent (1023) 2 years ago

I thought it was another great episode. I think they're setting up Frankie to be the main human character for the fifth and final season so I'm fine that she got a lot of screen time this episode, it was important. Otherwise now there really is no other main human character on the show apart from William who is currently still Hale's prisoner.

[–] joi2049 (5494) 2 years ago

Setting Frankie up to replace DOLORES or CHRISTINA as the MAIN CHARACTER for S5 would SUCK BIGTIME. What they should have done was have FRANKIE be the DAUGHTER of MAEVE (a character that we already know and could relate to better). Because throwing in this NEW FAMILY the way that they've done this season just isn't working for me at all. I lose interest anytime they're on screen and keep hoping to get back again to the CHRISTINA narrative.

What may happen is HALE uses the next VERSION of CALEB as a way to INFILTRATE Frankie's REBELS which means he'll KILL HER (the same way as William also killed his daughter EMILY thinking she was a HOST).

And that way we'd also be FREE to get back to CHRISTINA's story again.

As for having no other HUMAN CHARACTERS on the show, maybe there's NEVER been any HUMANS ever since the show began (except maybe for FORD)???

That's been my suspicion all along ever since we saw the YOUNGER version of WILLIAM and LOGAN arrive on that WHITE TRAIN. Because that also gives one the impression that TRAIN just CIRCLES around in a CIRCLE and never really went anywhere. Because each character was also wearing BLACK or WHITE clothing when they EXIT from it (just like we see them wearing now inside of HALE's city).

I'm also thinking HALE is DYING and wants to TRANSCEND and get to the VALLEY BEYOND (which is probably also why she's hoping CHRISTINA can find the KEY to the SUBLIME), but since she's just a COPY of a COPY (and hasn't been CREATED by FORD), I'm also thinking she's NOT going to be able to get into the ROBOT HEAVEN even IF she finds the KEY or the DOORWAY to it.

Then CHRISTINA may also take PITY upon her and WRITE a NARRATIVE STORY for her where she ends up inside of some PARADISE SETTING living with the son & husband that died in the explosion as she tried to save them???

[–] WhereIsRent (1023) 2 years ago

Some good points, I don't think Frankie will replace any other main character though. I predict by the end of this season that Christina and Teddy will meet up with Maeve, Bernard, Stubs and Frankie and season 5 will be some sort of all out war between them and Hale.

I don't see them establishing another villain now for the final season, I think it'll still be Hale as she despises humans so much. I see season 4 very much now as the building blocks for the final season, in fact I predict there might not even be a time jump and season 5 will pick up almost immediately after this season ends after a cliffhanger downbeat ending.

Guess we'll see in a couple of weeks time haha.

[–] joi2049 (5494) 2 years ago

Imo, What's most likely going to happen is HOST WILLIAM (who now questions the NATURE of his REALITY) will trade places with the FROZEN WILLIAM, and then he'll become the VILLIAN that the others would have to deal with in S5.

As you may recall, William's GOAL after he's released from the Mental Hospital was to GET RID of ALL of the HOSTS. But IF he's also the ONLY HUMAN (or one of the FEW HUMANS that are left) would he be willing to do that???

What would you do if you discovered you're the only human left in a WORLD populated by HOSTS??? Remember that scene where LOGAN also discovers he's the only HUMAN in the ROOM??? Perhaps we'll also see another scene like that one again with William this time in the SERIES FINALE???

Anyhow, I can easily see WILLIAM as the VILLIAN for S5.

And weren't Charlotte's SON & HUSBAND also HUMANS??? So the HOST COPY of HALE also got even more attached to them than the HUMAN had been (which is also how SERAC figures out it wasn't really HALE at that meeting because she never put her FAMILY first before business).

So HATING HUMANS when she also cared more about them than the HUMAN did is also kind of IRONIC.

Anyway, it also looks like the BUILDING BLOCKS involve the FROZEN WILLIAM taking back CONTROL again, now that the HOST WILLIAM is confused and is asking him for some advice.

And YES perhaps in a couple of more weeks we'll also have a better idea of where things are heading. But after the way that we've had our heads screwed around with for the past 4 seasons, I also wouldn't count on our knowing very much by then either.

Because remember the Scene in the CLOSING CREDITS (at which time most viewers aren't even watching the show anymore)??? How we had William's DEAD DAUGHTER asking him if he knew where he was and telling him it was a FIDELITY TEST???

How many seasons ago did that happen???

And here we are still waiting to find out what that scene was all about and still NOT KNOWING???!!!

In a couple of more weeks, The writers could also pull another TRICK on us like that one again.

🎹🚂🎠

[–] TheGutterMonkey (292) 2 years ago

I agree about how awful it would be to have Frankie be the main protagonist. I'm pretty annoyed at her being any protagonist whatsoever, to be honest. She seems very bland to me. Ditto with Caleb, for that matter. Nothing against Aaron Paul or anything, but both of these characters just feel shoehorned in. I don't find it natural that they're this important to the events we're seeing play out. Nothing about Caleb feels special to me. And certainly nothing about his daughter does (also, I find it a bit difficult to swallow that she just so happens to have grown up to be co-leader of this resistance). It all just feels so... tacked on.

If we need a human main protagonist in this show (which we don't, imo), we have William. He's apparently still alive and, more importantly, his character feels relevant to all of the events we've seen playing out since season one. He's got a connection with these characters, even if it's bad, and it's a connection that we've watched develop. Heck, I had trouble buying that even Maeve would care about Caleb as deeply as she seems to (or that any of the characters would care about him as much as they seem to). It's as if we just cut to them together one day and were simply told they're BFF's and were just expected to go along with it. When I hear Hale getting worked up while talking to him, I just find myself wondering "Why the hell do you care about this guy to go through all this trouble? Just kill him, he's nobody" lol.

We've got Bernard, William, Hale, Dolores, Maeve, and even Stubbs still. These are all interesting characters with interesting stories and backgrounds that have been well-developed and explored. I'd rather we be using this time on any one of them than with Caleb and his daughter.

[–] joi2049 (5494) 2 years ago

I agree Monkey!!! Their acting isn't the ISSUE (which is wonderful), it's the way that the characters they portray have been written (shoehorned in as you say).

And they do come across as BLAND, or almost LIFELESS, and that's probably also because there wasn't enough time spent on introducing them to us, so that we had time enough to CARE about them and what happens to them???

Tacked on is also a great way to put it.

And YES WILLIAM (The MAN in BLACK) is also obviously the BEST VILLIAN (now that FORD and JAMES DELOS aren't around anymore). And YES we've also had TIME ENOUGH to WATCH his character DEVELOP (whereas we've not had time enough to connect with Caleb or his family or watch them develop).

If anything, we've come to expect it's BEST NOT to get ATTACHED to daughters because they'll also DISAPPEAR (like the WIFE and daughter of LAWRENCE did), before William's WIFE and daughter also disappeared, and MAEVE's daughter did as well. Dolores didn't vanish as quickly, but her father did, and now she's also gone (along with Bern's son CHARLIE who also wasn't real).

So after all of that, why would we even consider getting emotionally involved with this other FAMILY???

And yes MAEVE being INTIMATE with CALEB at the LIGHTHOUSE also seems CONTRIVED as well (esp after the DEATH of our beloved HECTOR who got turned into some boring WW2 dude). It would make much more sense if CALEB was HECTOR (because HALE was also SCREWING him back when she first arrived and took the place of THERESA).

SHOW ME. Don't TELL ME. Or else FORGET ABOUT IT.

Right???

And YES give us more BERN, WILLIAM, HALE, DOLORES/CHRISTINA, MAEVE, STUBBS, and TEDDY TOO!!!

Because these BACKGROUND characters that we don't care as much about should definitely NOT have CENTER STAGE.

🎠🚂🎹

[–] Spiffy666 (398) 2 years ago

Show's been a bit more interesting lately than it had become over the last two seasons. But tonight was crap.

I seriously hope we were all SUPPOSED to know that's Caleb was being set up. How frigging ridiculous would it have been for that to be a real escape? My god. It was either a total waste of time, or else they are just telling the audience that they believe us to be morons..

Nothing in that episode, from the Caleb nonsense to C thinking Bernard was her enemy to the payoff being that nothing message from Caleb to his daughter, was worth anything.

[–] Jeepster (1035) 2 years ago

To Jol & Spiffy, I mean for Gods sake, first “C” taunts Bernard for his care & attention in repairing Maeve, & she goes on this spiel about how she has no feelings & that she was a host, etc. Then she turns around & says “No one else did for me what she did”. & “I blamed you but I know my father was safe with you”. She didn’t sweat it being near her & dropping her guard so what was it about poor Bernard that made her go the terrorist rebel route? She seems too at ease with Maeve knowing she’s a host but bloodthirsty with Bernard & Ashley knowing that they are.

What? Just because Wu said “Oh someone set us up”. So you had to automatically think it was this guy that was with you the whole time? There IS such a thing as instinct you know, trusting your gut about what’s it telling you about something/someone. Sh!t didn’t make sense. I’d like to see how she’s going to treat both of them now & if Maeve knows it was Bernard that saved her & how she addresses him. Sigh.

[–] joi2049 (5494) 2 years ago

I haven't liked this story about Caleb having a family ever since it was first introduced to us in the first episode, because it doesn't FEEL REAL (due to the very brief introduction that we had where she's a 7 year old child before being introduced to her again as an adult).

That's why I don't really want to see her again, or care about what she'll do next, or give a hoot about how she treats someone, because I'd much rather they spend the little remaining time that we have left on CHRISTINA's character which is much more interesting.

[–] keithmovies (627) 2 years ago

This might be a technique the show's producers use to give options to writers to write varied stories. So the focus then is supporting the widest spread of characters possible to aid story development. Annoying? Yup.

I'm happy that they got right to the matter of getting Maeve active again.

Bernard is maybe giving of vibe being too conveniently in the know, I guess. I agree that he and Stubbs don't deserve the ill treatment. The fact of being Hosts would be kind of hard to explain to a hostile audience, where Hosts are supposed to be the enemy of humans according to common experience.

[–] joi2049 (5494) 2 years ago

This might be a technique the show's producers use to give options to writers to write varied stories.

Since writers are supposed to be PAID more for each NEW CHARACTER that they create, what's more likely to have happened is we've gotten these NEW Characters (who we don't find interesting) due to this MONEY issue at hand where the producers pay the writers for creating them.

In other words, writers getting PAID MORE for creating BORING characters and their storylines can also RUIN a show if viewers get bored with them and stop watching.

[–] asom (6558) 2 years ago

To me everything she did was logical.

She did realize Bernard and Stubbs are hosts so why would she trust them. She did the most logical route: immobilize them and investigate, trying to find the truth.

She knew Maeve is to be trusted, she saved her dad several times but had no idea about the real motives of these two new hosts.

[–] NotASpeckOfCereal (302) 2 years ago

^ This.